Aeroturbine muffler

[65-f100]

Wanted to know if anyone has any experience with this muffler. http://www.turboexhaust.com/index.html

Makes a lot of claims (don't they all?) - but appears to be a solid product. If what they say is true - it would be nice to add some MPG AND power. I'm no aeronautics engineer - but the explanation seems to make sense. Just looking for some input and opinions.

I'm always wary and skeptical of the latest and greatest anything - but thought this one looked pretty good. Thoughts?

[Turbine Doc]

Looks interesting, but am still tentative about this lot of claims out there these days, sure would like to hear from someone who has ready access to a dyno, to test one of these things.

Ahem, Ahem John Kennedy you out there :D :D :D .

I did install the Roadmaster system http://www.activesuspension.com/ after watching it as reviewed by the 2 Garage TV Guys listed on their site, they were correct about that product.

[ 04-30-2004, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: tbogemirep ]

[Turbine Doc]

I just called their tech line & asked if it did not produce results on dyno would they take it back, sort of stumbled on that question guess nobody ever asked, guy on other end sounded kinda young, more of a salesman than a tech.

But said it would produce results, I asked how much on avg 7-8 Hp & 25 ft lb torque is what they say they see, is that a good bang for buck mod for $200 if true, I don't know.

Also said for a 3.5" setup like mine would have to use reducers down from 4" wouldn't that sort of reduce effectiveness?

John Kennedy what do you think, you evaluate this stuff all the time?

[65-f100]

I would love to hear Kennedy's opinion/experience or Heath's as well.

Good idea to call them - I wonder if they would take it back if you see no gain in MPG?

I tend to trust what I hear from the guys on Two-Guys as well as I've followed them for years. They don't usuall mess around with alot of junk.

Who knows - could be interesting?

[Turbine Doc]

I'd bite the bullet and try it but after so many mods it's hard to tell from seat of pants if another bolt on is really netting anything, unless it produces big gains or is something I can see on my scanner.

Plus where are the gains from the muffler swap netted at top end with max air flow scavenge ?
during all speed ranges?

what is it's scavenge power enhancement ability during cruise while tow?

is that a 2-3 hp gain on the bottom-mid and a 7 hp at the top.

My guess is that if it works, probably one of those things to do after you have done everything else, that you would do better by spending this $200 on something else or putting it toward IC/WMI/injectors/reflash.

Maybe one of the other performance gurus/pioneers will weigh in, I'm still learning as I go.

[ 04-30-2004, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: tbogemirep ]

[cruzer]

If your thinking I/C, DO IT, along w'increased boost. That's a no brainer If you tow w/your
truck it's a no brainer.

$200 is pretty steep for just a muffler.

[ 04-30-2004, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: cruzer ]

[Spindrift]

Seems to be a variation on Flowmaster's "Delta Flow" line.

[65-f100]

I agree with Spindrift that $200 is expensive - I'm sure some of that has to do with the all-stainless construction. I looked at the delta-flow flowmaster info. and they are both saying they scavenge better, but the aeroturbine looks to be more of a straight-through design that may flow better. Who knows? In the big scheme of things - if it does anywhere close to what it claims - it's a lot of bang for the buck!

[CleviteKid]

Dr. Lee says:

This is a fake.

1. Their explanation violates the Bernoulli Principle. When the exhaust expands and slows down, its kinetic energy is converted to potential energy and the pressure INCREASES, not decreases.

2. It violates the FIRST law of thermodynamics, as well as the Second law (which most scams do). The First law is conservation of energy. The incoming exhaust has a certain kinetic energy of mass times velocity squared. This muffler is a PASSIVE device - there is no additional source of energy input to it. Yet they claim the exhaust exits FASTER. Same mass, more velocity, more energy. VIOLATION !!

3. They say the device is patented, buy I did not find the patent number anywhere on the website. If someone else saw a patent number, please post it here. It is a severe violation of U.S. Law to claim a device is patented if it is not. And if the patent exists, the law REQUIRES that the patent number be prominently disclosed. I am at least suspicious of the patent status.

4. They talk a good game about being better than a straight pipe, but all the comparisons are to "stock exhaust systems". It is easy to make a muffler with less restriction than stock, even FloMaster can do it !! And a lot of the gains are fractional. Just test-to-test variations could account for that, and they could be cherry-picking the favorable tests, if they even ran tests.

Remember, the truth is an absolute defense to a libel charge, and Dr. Lee is not worried. But for the record, this is my opinion alone, and is not the opinion of TheDieselPage.com, or any other person or entity associated therewith.

Dr. Lee :mad:

[Bill Voitel]

Way to go Doc!!!!!!

Bill.

[CleviteKid]

You are welcome, Bill, and everyone else.

One of my more enjoyable tasks is to help our members avoid spending money on less effective modifications, and save it for the stuff that really works from vendors like Kennedy, Heath, BD, The Diesel Depot, etc. etc.

Dr. Lee :cool:

[C.K. Piquup]

Also,don`t mufflers outlast tailpipes?Mine always do.So,what`s the point of spending money on a stainless muffler?Especially on an aluminized system.Even with an all stainless system(is there a 4"mandrel-bent stainless system out there?),all hardware and contacting areas must be stainless to benefit.Anyone have stainless manifolds?As the exhaust cools and becomes more dense,like six or so feet back(where muffler/s is/are),it becomes easier to push.Especially by the hotter,higher energy gases with nowhere to go but out the pipe.

[norm]

The numbers trick may be related to Dr. Lee's point #2. There is a way to increase velocity without adding energy, but not with a volume factor, which is what is implied by the maker. If you decrease volume or add some restriction, you can increase the resultant FPM but not CFM. FPM alone does us no good at all. The air pump (engine) will produce a certain CFM, and the FPM and pressure will be affected by the pipes, turbo, muffler etc. Don't fall for it.

[Beedee]

Dr. Lee
Nice to have you around. You put a lot of perspective (sp?) on some of the witch doctor/VooDoo claims out there. :eek:
My hat is off to you Sir. :D

Brian

[JeepSJ]

Just test-to-test variations could account for that, and they could be cherry-picking the favorable testsCan you say "Split Fire spark plugs"? Oops, I'm not supposed to talk about it.

[CleviteKid]

Just like I cannot talk about Slick 50 or DuraLube or . . . . . where I have been a technical expert in class-action litigation :eek: .

Dr. Lee :cool:

[JeepSJ]

US Patent 6,679,351

This magically appeared on their site when I e-mailed and asked them about their patent numbers.

[DmaxMaverick]

Well, looking at what is on file at the patent office, it is as suspected. Nothing more than a baffle in a fancy package. Probably looks cool. Should be a real good Ebay item.

Have a look at it: Patent office record (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=6,679,351&OS=6,679,351&RS=6,679,351)

The patent office records unique ideas and devices. It does no independent testing in any way to verify the function of anything. Having a patent only guaranties that the idea or device cannot be marketed by anyone else. This "muffler" is unique in its design, but only slightly comparing to other similar devices. It does not qualify as a spark arresting device. Looks like the old "turbo" style mufflers with only one chamber.

Blow your money on it if you are so gullible. My guess is the performance change, if any, would not be any better or worse than any other muffler of similar design. It may sound different due to the chamber and louvering, but that's it.

I'm not surprised.

[JeepSJ]

I decided to e-mail and ask them about tests between their product and other aftermarket products. As someone stated before, it is easy to make something that outflows a stock muffler. So I asked for test results between them and other aftermarket products to back up their claim that their product is the best. The response did not surprise me...

"Hey Mark, we don't have any results with the performance comparisons between the Aero Turbine and our competitors, YET. I really can not wait to do these particular tests but it will be a while."

I would think something as important as that would be high on their list. Unless, of course, they already know what the results will be.

[DmaxMaverick]

I know what their test results will be (were). It's my bet they already did the tests and don't want to post the results. It seems they are smart enough not to shoot themselves in the foot.

[C.K. Piquup]

I`ll bet it`s the only muffler on the market utilizing aeroturbine technology.OW!!MAN!!!My foot!!!Call in the next five minutes and we`ll include a free Slim Whitman 8-track for the amazing low price of $19.95(a$69.00 value).

[grape]

try a dynomax race magnum.........same thing but waaaay cheaper

[G. Gearloose]

They should throw in a free bottle of snake oil..

I concur with grape, dynomax race series is high quality stuff.

[C.K. Piquup]

Hey Dr.Lee,What if you poke holes in the front area of the muffler?Won`t this increase flow,energy,and VOLUME?You could add a shroud that acts as a scoop,if you will,then add one of those tornado things,then cut out the back of the muffler to fit 6" tailpipes to handle the added volume.

[CleviteKid]

C.K. Piquup,

Why not just run a v-belt off the driveshaft, and use it to turn a 6-71 blower under the bed, and use the blower to SUCK the exhaust out of the engine? That should not violate too many laws of Thermodynamics, if you don't count the first three.

The Clevite Kid tongue.gif

[C.K. Piquup]

I`m rollin`on the floor!This is rich.I wish all"false-claimers"could see this kind of feed-back.Now,I`m no engineer but,couldn`t you route the tailpipe back up to the intake to form a sort of perpetual exhaust machine?It would be very fuel-efficent,using a little fuel to get the thing going?Not to mention environmentally-friendly creating virtually no emissions. :eek:

[C.K. Piquup]

I`m rollin`on the floor!This is rich.I wish all"false-claimers"could see this kind of feed-back.Now,I`m no engineer but,couldn`t you route the tailpipe back up to the intake to form a sort of perpetual exhaust machine?It would be very fuel-efficent,using a little fuel to get the thing going?Not to mention environmentally-friendly creating virtually no emissions. :eek:

[C.K. Piquup]

OOPS!Wasn`t me.

[JeepSJ]

If I install all those products that claim these huge HP and mileage increases, I should be able to make about 500hp and get 100mpg. That's it! That's how I'm going to get back at the oil companies for these high fuel prices. Tornado, Aeroturbine, SplitFire, Prolong... Heck, if I add Slick50 and Duralube, I don't even have to use any engine oil or coolant. Where's my credit card...

[Dieselboy]

Originally posted by CleviteKid:
...That should not violate too many laws of Thermodynamics, if you don't count the first three.Texas A&M has its own power plant which is capable of providing 100% of the university's power, but only puts out 90% of the daily requirements while buying the rest off the local grid - economics at work.

This Spring, our thermo class took a tour of the plant, and one of the power plant supervisors that was leading us was what we call a "good old boy." He'd gotten his thermo education in the military, and had a certain flare when explaining how stuff worked.

So here are the three laws of thermodynamics according to one Texan.
1) Whatever you put in has to come out.
2) Hot goes to cold.
3) We don't deal with this one so much since all our temperatures are way above absolute zero, so don't worry about it.

While not the most detailed explanation of thermo, but I guess it'll get you by when working with steam cycles.

PS: Our power plant operates on a reheat and regen cycle with five stages of extraction. It also provides all the hot and cold water for campus with big thermal storage tanks, and twelve chillers. In fact, they were blowing down a brand new boiler while we were there, so it was nearly impossible to hear anything.