right clutch kit???

[94bluehd]

I have the entire drivetrain out of my truck and upon inspecting the DM FW, the springs have quite a bit of wear and there is wear against the FW inside the spring housings. Also, some of the rubber bushings holding the springs seem to be wore more than others. The face of the FW cleaned up superb with a little emery cloth and there are no blueing or cracks. I am scared to use it again (141K) only to have it go bad soon again.

I already have the damper ordered b/c the transmission guy advised it also helps with the 5th gear problem (see my other post concerning this problem, main shaft nut doesn't even have threads as it was rolling around in there for who knows how long.)

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=34271

I am seriously considering going to SM now and see some kits (Valeo) on ebay. What are the other experiences with SM Conversions and which brands?

[trbankii]

Here is a thread (http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=31207) from last year where 6.5DD and I replaced our clutches.

I went with a South Bend SM kit and 6.5DD went with DynaPak.

I held off on getting the dampener and really don't notice any difference without it.

[6.5 Detroit Diesel]

After reading everything, I think next time I will go with South Bend. Service and quality seem to be a little better than Dynapak. The price seems to be about the same.

[94bluehd]

Thanks guys! i appreciate the input. I think I am going to SM for sure. No complaints with the DM, there's just not alot of options for the DIYer besides replacing it every time.

[94bluehd]

Anyone ever try the LUK systems? How about them

[Robyn]

If you can get a Kevlar disc for one of these it would be sweet.

I switched the big rig over to the Kev clutch back about 4 years ago.

OMG what a difference. The Kev disc does not eat the flywheel and the plate all up like the ceramics do.

Now a Light duty rig is certainly not going to trash a clutch like something with 2000 lbs of torque trying to rip it in half.

The low wear on the parts is a real plus though. The kev clutch is sooooooooooo smooth upon engagement too. No grabbing or chatter upon takeoff either.

The need to readjust is far less also. The first adjustment was the day following the install and then in about a month. After the initial break in the need to adjust went to about once a year if that.

Not sure if this stuff is available for the 6.5 but I would ask.


Best

Robyn

[trbankii]

The kit I used from South Bend was kevlar - MU 1931 TZ - Heavy duty w/Kevlar clutch disc

And I can vouch for SB's support. Peter answered a number of my questions personally before and after the sale.

[Hubert]

Luk is OEM and they have a reputation for tearing apart the center of the disc hub. Supposedly they improved over the years. Most find the pilot bearing (needle bearing) kaput upon tear down. I think they are related. BUT that is my opinion from reading several others stories.

Dodge had problems with thier input bearing too. With a good pilot bearing the NV4500 seems to have better clutch life.

LUK is the cheapest and seems to do well with a good pilot bearing. South Bend comes highly recommended. Zoom was another that looked good to the eye. Centerforce has hi performance disc material but the pressure plate is the same as an OEM and not thier proprietary weighted fingers???

[94bluehd]

Thanks for all the info!

[trbankii]

As Hubert says, the pilot bearing is problematic. South Bend shipped me a kevlar pilot bearing - we'll see how that holds up.

[94bluehd]

I get alot of contradicting info on the Kevlar usage. There is an article on Quad 4x4 about them as well.

[94bluehd]

I called SB and they were very helpful, prices comparable to others. There is some other good products out there I think but with the DP and other diesel forums, I have heard too many satisfied customers and can't afford not to go with a product with good reviews. It will ship immediately and if I get my transmission kit, I might have it on the road in a week. Went ahead and got one of the crossovers from ebay as well.

When I get this project done, it is time to hit the front of the motor. I have the 97 cooling mods and a phazer kit ready to go in.

[6.5 Detroit Diesel]

hope it comes together nicely for you. i know the frustration that is felt when your truck is in pieces.

i am guessing by the phazer kit you mean gears? where did you get them from?

[94bluehd]

I got the dual idler (phazer) kit from JK years ago and have put off installation b/c the truck was running so good.

[94bluehd]

I got the SB kit and SM FW. However, Upon inspection, there are no balance marks on the FW, the clutch has a paint mark and the plate has three paint marks. How does this go together????

[6.5 Detroit Diesel]

any pictures?

[94bluehd]

these are not of the actual items. These are pics to illustrate what I am describing. Look at the Pressure plate pic. The two arrows point to the small pins/studs holding the retension springs in the assembly. There are three of them on the PP and each has a paint mark (like you would expect for the normal marks.).

The arrow on the disk pic points to the approximate location of a similar green paint mark. iT is not a "dot" like the marks on the pp but more of a "smear" accross the section of the center b/n the inner and outer rings.

Also, there are NO marks on the FW (front, back,outer). Is it because it is balanced by itself?

I read on a different forum that the Pp is factory balanced and should "just bolt on" as the disk is always moving. IF this is the case, why do all the manuals stress "aligning the X" and the PP mark....etc. Is that just for the dM?

[94bluehd]

Called SB and they confirmed every item is balanced itself so you can just put it together!

[6.5 Detroit Diesel]

That's something like what i was thinking. SB has a pretty good name, so i didn't think they would have screwed up. ;) Bolt it up the same way you took everything out, and get that handshaker back on the road! :D

[94bluehd]

I would like to get it back on the road but the clutch kit did not come with any bolts for the PP and of course the old ones won't work!#@$#%@$%%#@$%@$%&$%&$ One thing after another. When you work during the day and tinker on the truck at night, it costs even an extra day more because now I have to wait until tomorrow to even call them!!!!

[6.5 Detroit Diesel]

i know to well what it's like working on the vehicle after the work day. but you don't want to get the wrong bolts. ;) me is thinking those will be a GR. 8 bolt.

[trbankii]

Took a look back through my e-mails to see if I still had the one from Peter with the bolt size. Definitely go Grade8 for them, but I cannot find the size and length - should have written it down somewhere. I agree - they should include those in the kit.

[94bluehd]

I called SB and explained the situation and he said they definitely should have had a bolt pack in with the kit. They are overnighting them to me. You are right, good service and very apologetic and understanding. Same with Quad 4x4, my transmission rebuild came with a 5th gear for a dodge (21 tooth) so they got right on it and I should have the 5th gear today. Great service there also.

I totally understand how those things happen but I sure don't like it when it happens to me

[94bluehd]

SB came through and the bolts were here at mid-day!!! I got the tranny rebuilt and ready to install and got the clutch in.. Now on to the Bell housing, Tranny, TC, shafts and down the road (I sure hope anyway....).

The rebuild manual available at Quad4x4 was an unbelievable asset in rebuilding the nv4500, step-by-step pics and the rebuild parts were the exact part numbers of the originals which made it very easy to learn on a first time rebuilder of that tranny.

[6.5 Detroit Diesel]

SB came through and the bolts were here at mid-day!!! I got the tranny rebuilt and ready to install and got the clutch in.. Now on to the Bell housing, Tranny, TC, shafts and down the road (I sure hope anyway....).


way to go on the rebuild. something i wouldn't mind checking into. :) Um, TC?

[94bluehd]

thankyou, of course the real test is to come. The only specialty tool I had to buy was the MS nut socket to access the nut once the damper was on and calculate the extent of the extension used on a 250lb torque wrench to reach the suggested 325lb. I got some threaded bolt stock and large washers with a piece of pipe and fitted the race out of one of the old bearings into the end of the pipe for a press. Just thread the mess into the end of the MS and start turning the bolt to press the pipe/race against bearing/gear and on it goes. Also used a small shop press where I could. I used large jaw pullers to remove the stuff from the MS since I had to replace it anyway. the ms is long and didn't have long enough pullers so I cut the MS with a chopsaw since it was junk anyway, that way I could reach what I needed with the proper grasp from the puller. Also a dial indicator is necessary. Magnetically mountable would be ideal but I made a conglomeration of adjustable extensions and bolted it into the end of the case to fit the DI against the ends of the shafts to check for play and determine the proper spacer(s) needed. I was tedious as I took it slow and hopefully did it correctly. I poured a pint or so over the gears and shifted through them last night and it works great. Sealed up the openings for install and go from there.

TC=Transfer case- I rebuilt that two years ago (NP241) using instructions/kit from drivetrain(I think that is what they are called). very helpful and a successful rebuild after the input bearing exploded.

[94bluehd]

I got the whole thing back together and took it for a test drive. Wow, now vibrations at all!!!!! With the SM FW, it is alot quieter upon starter engagement and the clutch is extremely easy to work compared to the old clutch set up. Also, with the rebuild Nv4500, it really shifts nice.

Is this common for the clutch to get so easy. It is engaging, disengaging all the way with normal pedal travel.

No more 5th gear hum/whine either (imagine that).

I put a new crossover on as well.

My issue is this, when I had the DM setup, I had a grunt/grind intermittenly in reverse and when hauling a load down a hill in 1st and relying on engine compression. It was intermitent and I assumed it was something like a warped PP or somehting? However, now anytime I downshift or left of the throttle in the lower gears, I get it constantly. Also, when I shut it down, there is a clunk when the motor stops. All of these noises sound like they are right under the center console.

Anyone else deal with these noise(s)? How about the easy pedal?

[94bluehd]

Nevermind about the noise.....I found that the 4" exhaust is very close to the bottom of the cab and when the engine torques to the driver's side, the pipe hits a rib under the passengers side cab. Funny it only did it before when I was backing up a steep hill or the engine was holding back while going down a steep hill.

I recently changed the gplugs and had to unhook the down pipe. I would think the strap would have put it right back where it was?

The only scenario I can think of is that the motor mounts may be getting worn and allowing excessive rocking of the motor. With the new clutch, it is not slipping and is quick to engage, thereby making the noise more pronounced.

The bad thing about the 4" exhaust is it is hard to find a straight shot w/o getting close to something.

[94bluehd]

Need input here guys/gals.....

I got about 35 miles on the overhaul and now the TC jumps into neutral from 2H. Put it in 4h and can feel it trying to move out of gear. Had to hold it in 2H to get it home....kept trying to jump out. From the feel of the shifter on the TC it felt like it was gradually moving it's way out of gear and then POP, it was out of gear (with a very slight grind on it's way out). Seemed to get worse as I got home and on the 1mi bumpy driveway.

I didn't do anything to the TC during my recent work, only pulled it out and put it back in. Linkage should be in the same spot....

Would worn motor mounts affect this or do I have something else going on?

I have about 20K on the rebuilt TC with no problems before I pulled the Tranny and all that??????

[DmaxMaverick]

If the shifter is properly adjusted, and is not contacting anything during torque episodes (on power or compression), the TC needs an overhaul. The in/output shaft bearings are getting sloppy, causing it to kick out of gear when they torque out of alignment. There are other possibilities of cause, but you won't know until you split the case.

If your engine mounts are very worn, the torque episodes could cause the shifter to contact the tunnel, causing it to shift out of gear. If it goes (or tries to) into neutral from 2 and 4, it's likely worn out. Overhauls are not difficult, and not expensive, if you do it yourself. The last one I did was less than $120 in parts/sealer (no gaskets used), and took less than 4 hours (at my slow speed), including R/R. Very simple gearbox.

[94bluehd]

Thanks DM...I just rebuilt it 20K ago and absolutely no problems until now????? How would my clutch kit, tranny rebuild affect this?

How much play should be in the motor mounts..I took off the shifter boot on the tranny and drove it around and noticed about 1 inch side-to-side during torque.

Thanks to everyone on this site, I would never have gotten this far in the last 6yrs w/o this site!!!

[DmaxMaverick]

I dunno. Unless something was overlooked during the rebuild, something broke (spring or shift fork?), or it is being affected externally, I don't have an answer. The TC moving won't cause it to disengage. 1" shift lever movement, from power on to compression (while in gear), does not seem excessive. If it's moving 1" just from revving the engine, it could be, depending on how/where you're measuring it. If/when you replace the engine mounts, do the tranny mount, as well, and perhaps the crossmember insulators (where the xmember mounts to the frame).

(far reaching possibility)
It could have to do with your DM to SM change. Additional/different harmonics through the tranny may be exploiting a weakness in the TC. Just a SWAG...

[94bluehd]

Thank you for the input. My guess is that I will be going into the case as it was getting worse as I went.....Damn!

[94bluehd]

switched to a SM FW but now have the DM flywheel. Face looks good, springs have a wear spot on them but work to just roll that spot to the outside but he plastic bushings at the ends of the springs are worn. Seems like a waste to throw this away. Can a person get the springs/bushings? It would be nice to have second flywheel since I had originally bought a DM clutch kit to put in until I saw the FW springs.