97 3500hd DURAMAX CONVERSION

[85chevyk30]

Alright guys im finally goin to do a conversion to my truck. My truck is a 97 3500hd 4x4 with a 6.5 diesel in it. I bought the truck about 3 months ago from a eletric company in az. where it had a bucket body on it. I replaced it with 9ft hillsboro bed on it. Well the 6.5 finally crapped out so im goin to try to throw this lb7 in it.
here a pic of the truck

[85chevyk30]

heres sum more pics

[THEFERMANATOR]

That should be a nice swap when your done. You can refer back to my post for my swap as I did my 95 and tried to get some good pictures up. And if you have any specific questions feel free to ask. There are several ways to go about this swap, I highly reccomend planning out your swap as best as possible before you begin to set the DURAMAX in there. Many of the aspects of the swap are much easier with the engine out like wiring and such.

[85chevyk30]

Well i bought the conversion guide on here and it helped a bunch. I already got the motor mounts done. Im using my 4l80e tranny becasue the truck as a speacial t-case and i couldn't apapt it to my allison. I hope i can build it enought to handle the duramax. Im goin to use a stand alone controller for the transmisson. I don't know how to you used the duramax intercooler bc i put it agianst the core support and it looks like it wont work.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I would strongly reccomend using the ALLISON, the 4L80E doesn't stand a chance against the DURAMAX. Even the 4L85E with the hardened planetarys and such isn't holding up very well behind the van's at 250HP and 460 torque. If you must use it then I suggest getting ahold of MIKE L of INGLEWOOD TRANSMISSIONS and never using 4th gear for any towing of ANY kind. 4th gear is the downfall of the 4L80/85E series of transmissions. There are several options out there for transfer cases as well that you can mate up to the ALLISON, or you could get SUNCOAST to make you one of there billet rear housings that will mate up to whatever transfer case you want them to make it for. Also for a trans controller I would consider going with the T42 style they used in the vans as you will need a TCM that can transmit the J1939 messages over the can bus from the ECM,TCM and FICM if you want to go that route. Some have tried running the manual trans calibration with the stand-alone but have had problems with the idle in gear not behaving right as the ECM will raise the RPM's at idle when it senses a load. An auto calibration in the ECM will be looking for the TCM signal or else it won't let the engine go over 2000 RPM's. I think you can run an early 01 ECM operating system, cannot verify if this won't be plagued with power problems due to all of the safeties built in.

I did ALOT of homework on mine before I ever even considered getting my donor, and there is ALOT to consider if you want it all to interact properly.

[More Power]

Well i bought the conversion guide on here and it helped a bunch. I already got the motor mounts done. Im using my 4l80e tranny becasue the truck as a speacial t-case and i couldn't apapt it to my allison. I hope i can build it enought to handle the duramax. Im goin to use a stand alone controller for the transmisson. I don't know how to you used the duramax intercooler bc i put it agianst the core support and it looks like it wont work.

Like what was suggested earlier, I would also recommend using the Allison if you have access to one. Then you can use the newer NV261/263 transfer case and you could use all of the aftermarket power mods available for the engine.

The intercooler installation can be and has been done successfully, as shown in the Conversion Guide. No problems in the 5+ years since I did mine. I know of a couple C/K conversion projects that didn't use an intercooler at all. The engine will work without one, but it limits power, which might not be a problem if you use the 4L80 and keep the power moderate.

Jim

[85chevyk30]

The duramax motor is a 01. I have talked to these guys at www.transmissoncenter.net (http://www.transmissoncenter.net) and they swear they can build a 4l80e to handle 1200 horsepower. My duramax is goin to have 20 over injectors and 2.6 bd turbo.

[THEFERMANATOR]

The duramax motor is a 01. I have talked to these guys at www.transmissoncenter.net (http://www.transmissoncenter.net) and they swear they can build a 4l80e to handle 1200 horsepower. My duramax is goin to have 20 over injectors and 2.6 bd turbo.


Those guys don't exactly have a good reputation for building what they advertise, many an unhappy customer with them in the diesel world. A 4L80E will surviv in a car in 1st-3rd, but WILL self destruct in 4th if you give it any power. The guy in ORLANDO FL with the 9 second quarter mile DURAMAX MUSTANG is running a 4L80E tranny, but even he will admit that it cannot hold in OD for anything more than steady cruising. The BUICK GRAND NATIONAL with a DURAMAX is backed by a 4L85E built my MIKE L., but you won't catch him in OD doing anything more than steady cruising. In a truck at even stock power levels the 4L80E will NOT hold, and even with a full on build capable of holding 1200HP it won't take more than about 500 torque in OD which a DURAMAX will make stock no problems.

It's your money, but I would strongly caution against it. You already have the HD truck, why not give it a true HD driveline. I know lotsofmiles(a member on McRats forum) has a DURAMAX van and can obliterate a 4L80E with just tuning in his LLY van and is currently in the process of swapping in an 06 ALLISON as he is tired of tranny problems. And I know pussow(the guy on EBAY who sells the conversion CD on EBAY) also got rid of his 4L80E as it couldn't hold up to his 06 van motor(250HP version). Just remember this when you make your decision, most tranny shops advertise HP numbers that there tranny can hold. But who cares? It's a diesel, so torque is the number you have to concern yourself with. Hence why a 700R4 can be built up to hold up to some pretty high HP small block chevies(550HP+), but even a stock 165HP 6.2L will eventually kill it even built.

[85chevyk30]

well i gotta use my 4l80e. Becasue i already sold my allison like a dummy :mad:. Can this mike L build my tranny to hold the power and i know from the start that i couldn't beat on this truck till i get a allison in it. but i have to get it down b/c i ran a landscaping and snow removal business and its one of my plow trucks.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Mike L is one of the best there is at building trannies, he is in California though. He's currently working on trying to get a 4L80E to hold up behind a DURAMAX, but has not met with much success. If you have to run the 4L80E, then I would definately say forget about any power adders and actually consider de-tuning it some. I know you don't want to hear it, but now is the time to do the ALLISON, it is alot cheaper to do the job once than it is to do it twice. Call and talk to Mike L., he can be a little short with people if you act like you know it all, but normally if you call and talk to him later in the afternoon I have found he can talk your ear off. And you will learn more in 15 minutes on the phone with him about transmissions, than most builders could ever hope to learn.

[85chevyk30]

I really appericate the help, and i know im goin to have to detune it for a while. Im going to get in running so it came make it though winter and im going to look for a allison or a six manually next summer. I haven't decided yet if im going to run a billet tail shaft like suncoast and apapt to my tcase, or run a devoriced tcase. Now could you explain more about the van tcm. Would it be better to buy the van tcm then use a stand alone controller? Then would i have to get a van engine harness and tranny harness? Another question would you run 5in exhaust or 4in exhaust? Could you pm Mike L number and infromation please? i really do apperciate all your guys input.

[THEFERMANATOR]

4" exhaust is more than enough to support upwards of 500-600HP in a DURAMAX. The VAN TCM was meant for a 4L80E transmission behind the DURAMAX, but I don't think you can get a calibration for the T42 TCM to work with an LB7 engine. Also EFILIVE will most likely be a must for you since you are going with a NON-GM factory combo. The ECM will be looking for feedback from the TCM if it has a calibration in it for an ALLISON, and if it doesn't see it the engine WILL go into limp mode which will give you 0 boost and a 2000RPM limit. You will have to get a manual transmission calibration and then have to tweak the idle fuel tables so it doesn't run away on you when you drop it in gear. Since you are using an 01, you are pretty well limited to 01 for options. The van TCM was an option in 06, but GM changed alot of things in 06. I know you are in a hurry to get this done, but the ALLISON will simplify almost all of the custom tuning needs that you will incure if you run the 4L80E. What is so special about your current transfer case? It should be a BORG WARNER 13?? series I would think since it's mated up to a 4L80E. I would go with the ALLISON/261 combo and then go with a fixed yoke for the front driveshaft and be done with it. This will eliminate the need for custom tuning, and it would be a combo that the GM software will work with as stock.

I'm not trying to be a buzzkil, but I think you're setting yourself up for a major breakdown with your current combo. And it is not any fun at all to have to go back in and re-do part of your swap.

I tried to PM you his number, but it says that I can't. Type "INGLEWOOD TRANSMISSION" into most any search engine and it will bring you to his website.

[85chevyk30]

well since im already sold mine tranny. would you know anyone that has a allison for sale. I have like 4,000 to spend which i was goin to use it on the 4l80e. i already have the tcm for a 5speed tranny.

[rogers]

I don't really know much about the newer trucks, but the tranny listed here (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-GMC-CHEVY-TRUCK-ALLISON-TRANSMISSION-4X4-SILVERADO_W0QQitemZ170397926594QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item27ac82 04c2) seems to be a pretty good deal for your situation. Especially because it comes with the TC and whatnot.

[85chevyk30]

Thanks for the link i will keep my eye on it.

[85chevyk30]

Alright guys i have been doin some more research on my transmission issue. I know im not goin to use a 4l80e, i thought about using a nv4500 b/c it will bolt right up to my borg warner 4470, but i called south bend today to see if i could get a clutch made but they said the input shaft was to short to use with the duramax flywheel. So i thought about using a zf-6 speed tranny but i dont know if it will bolt up to my borg warner 4470. The only reason i want to use my oringal tcase is it has sum heavy duty custom shift linkage and its a manual tcase, it also has a pto brake on the rear of it that is attached to my ebrake. Also the borg warner tcase is cocked way down compared to a allison and 263 tcase. I think if i use a allison and stock t case i think it will mess with my front driveline angle. I dont know if you guys can tell in the pic but my truck sits up really high. It has 285 70 19.5s on it. So does any one know what a borg warner 4470 fit on and if i could get any adapters maybe.
o by the way the tcase has 32 spline input.

[THEFERMANATOR]

Call ADVANCED ADAPTERS, if anybody can couple it to the ALLISON, they can.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I don't know where you're located, but here is a good used 02 ALLISON I found in NEBRASKA.

http://www.duramaxdiesels.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16562

[85chevyk30]

I already called advance adapters they said they couldn't make one to the allison or the zf6. They sinch my tcase has a 32 input spline and the allison and zf6 has a 29 spline they couldnt make a stub shaft to adapt that. Which doesn't make since it dont sound that hard just a space and a stub shaft but o well. My transfer case has the excact bolt pattern as the allison and zf6.

btw I live in ohio

[THEFERMANATOR]

They should make a 29 to 32 stub shaft and then you could get a spacer to go in between the trans and case. Or go with a 261 floor shift transfer case with the fixed yoke kit for the front driveshaft and add in one of the ADVANCED ADAPTERS transfer case clocking ring kits and rotate the transfer case down to where you want it.

[wildbill]

who did your wireing

[85chevyk30]

Call PPE they make a hot rod harness they call it and you can put a duramax in anything even boats.

[85chevyk30]

Well Guys sorry for the delay on updates, but i've been really busy becoming a piggy (cop) lol. I have got alot of progess done on the conversion though. The core surpport is done which i ended up using a 12v intercooler. The motor is built and ready to go in and so is the transmission. The motor and transmission should be going this weekend but u never know lol.

[85chevyk30]

Heres Pics of the core support.
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/core_support_a.jpg
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/core_support_2_a1.jpg
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/core_support_1a.jpg

[85chevyk30]

Heres Pics Of the engine. what do you guys think of the white valve covers?
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/duramax_engine_done_a.jpg


http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/duramax_engine_done_1_a.jpg


http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/duramax_engine_done_2_a.jpg

[85chevyk30]

And sum more of the truck.

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/body_1_a.jpg

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/body_a.jpg

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/body_3_a.jpg

[THEFERMANATOR]

Call PPE they make a hot rod harness they call it and you can put a duramax in anything even boats.

If you're not very handy with wiring, this is your best option. Otherwise you can build the harness yourself. They quoted me $1200 to take a factory harness and modify it to work. I don't know about most people, but the 2 days I spent modding the harness custom to my SUBURBAN was worth alot less than $1200.

[85chevyk30]

Well i have a pretty good idea on the wiring. but my cousins has it figured out hes a gm master mechanic. Thats how i got all my parts cheap and my injectors lol ;). Well today i got alot of work done i got the oil pans on the motor and buttoned it up. Then i wired wheeled my frame and gave it a good coat of undercoating. I also got my motor mounts welded up today and my new 5in exhaust mocked up to. So tomorrow i hope i can test fit the engine and tranny and figure out how im going to build my cross member. I will have sum more pics up monday probly.

[85chevyk30]

Well i got alot done last weekend and the motor and tranny is in the frame. I did run into sum problems like my front driveshaft angle is crazy the tcase and allsion is alot different then my old tcase. The allison and 263 transfercase has hardly no drop to it, my old borg warner 4470 hung down pretty far so i dont know what im goin to about that front end right now.
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/motor_mounts_A_.jpg


http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/frame_painted_1_.jpg

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/motor_in_frame_A_.jpg

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/motor_in_truck_A_.jpg

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/motor_and_radiator_A_.jpg

[85chevyk30]

Heres sum more pics of what i got done today. What do guys think i should do about the front driveline angle. I think im goin to shim the front axle upwards to help the angle sum. I also think im goin to use a slip yoke eliminator kit in the transfercase and then get a constant veliocity joint drive shaft. Do you guys have any suggestions.

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/driveshaft_a.jpg

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/driveshaft_angle_A_.jpg


http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/downpipe_A_.jpg


http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/crossmember_clearence_A_.jpg


http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/crossmember_A_.jpg

[More Power]

You're making progress!

The front driveline angle looks a little too steep. How did the previous setup look and work? You may need to re-clock the txfer case to get a better front driveline angle.

Jim

[85chevyk30]

yea its for sure steep. Im trying to find a clocking kit got the transfer case right not but i can't find one right now. The old tcase was cocked down pretty far so it was that bad.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I would strongly reccomend a PRO-COMP front fixed yoke conversion kit for the transfer case and put in a KENNEDY wear plate in the case as well for insurance.

You may want to take a look at LONNIES build on his older GM truck.
http://www.lonniesperformance.com/82chevyduramax.htm

EDIT: PRO-COMP doesn't seem to offer the kit by itself anymore, ORU(off road unlimited) carries it now. It's not cheap, but if you plan on using 4 wheel drive it will be a neccesity with those driveline angles you have.
http://www.offroadunlimited.com/orustore/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=0&idproduct=19554

[85chevyk30]

Yea unlimited offroad is the only place i could find s slip yoke eliminator kit its like 500 bucks, its hard to swallow that much lol, but i have to have it. Do you think if i just get that kit and use a constant veliocity joint in my drive shaft that it will work. Or do you think i should try to find a clocking kit for the transfer case. Do you anyone that makes a clocking kit. sorry for all the questions.

[THEFERMANATOR]

the bolt pattern for the NEW PROCESS transfer cases is universal, so an ADVANCE ADAPTERS one should do the trick. The difference was that GM and DODGE were clocked 90 degrees out from each other. If you went with a CV at the T case I would think you would be fine with it.

[85chevyk30]

I will call advanced adapters tom. and see how much they are. I got you another questions since my tcase is eletronic i want to retro fit a push button from my body style truck instead of the 01 push button could it be done.

[THEFERMANATOR]

I will call advanced adapters tom. and see how much they are. I got you another questions since my tcase is eletronic i want to retro fit a push button from my body style truck instead of the 01 push button could it be done.

It might be doable, but I honestly couldn't tell you for certain. I know that the 01+ works in conjunction with the class 2 data bus for info like 4 low and when it's in 4 wheel drive. The encoder motor on the 263 is nothing like that of the earlier styles I have seen either. I went with a floor shifted 261 to simplify all of that as I already had the floor shifter in mine.

[More Power]

I will call advanced adapters tom. and see how much they are. I got you another questions since my tcase is eletronic i want to retro fit a push button from my body style truck instead of the 01 push button could it be done.

I agree with theferm about data bus communications.... If you want the pushbutton controls, I'd suggest keeping the control panel that matches the model year of your engine/trans package. Just be a little creative in how you incorporate the pushbutton control panel into your existing dash. This would make it a whole lot easier, and it'll look good if done right. ;)

Jim

[85chevyk30]

heres sum new pics. I got the exhaust done so far, and the fuel system is done too.

[85chevyk30]

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/exhaust_system.jpg

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/exhaust_system_1.jpg

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/exhaust_system_2.jpg

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/exhaust_tip.jpg

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/exhaust_tip_1.jpg

[85chevyk30]

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/duramax_truck_1.jpghttp://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/duramax_motor.jpg

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/duramax_motor_2.jpg

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/duramax_motor_1.jpg

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/photopost/data/500/medium/duramax_truck.jpg

[More Power]

Making progress! Good Job!

Jim

[computer-monkey]

Would someone be kind enough to pm me Mike L's phone number in Cal.

I have a 4L80E been hind a 6.5. I have gone through three 6.5's and still have the orginal transmission. I have now put a Cummins 5.9 in front of it. I will be finishing up the wiring and odds and inns this next week.

I would be interested in taking with him if you would give a few.

thanks

[THEFERMANATOR]

Would someone be kind enough to pm me Mike L's phone number in Cal.

I have a 4L80E been hind a 6.5. I have gone through three 6.5's and still have the orginal transmission. I have now put a Cummins 5.9 in front of it. I will be finishing up the wiring and odds and inns this next week.

I would be interested in taking with him if you would give a few.

thanks
http://inglewoodtransmission.com/

[computer-monkey]

Thank you for the reply

[Powellbr]

Those guys don't exactly have a good reputation for building what they advertise, many an unhappy customer with them in the diesel world. A 4L80E will surviv in a car in 1st-3rd, but WILL self destruct in 4th if you give it any power. The guy in ORLANDO FL with the 9 second quarter mile DURAMAX MUSTANG is running a 4L80E tranny, but even he will admit that it cannot hold in OD for anything more than steady cruising. The BUICK GRAND NATIONAL with a DURAMAX is backed by a 4L85E built my MIKE L., but you won't catch him in OD doing anything more than steady cruising. In a truck at even stock power levels the 4L80E will NOT hold, and even with a full on build capable of holding 1200HP it won't take more than about 500 torque in OD which a DURAMAX will make stock no problems.

It's your money, but I would strongly caution against it. You already have the HD truck, why not give it a true HD driveline. I know lotsofmiles(a member on McRats forum) has a DURAMAX van and can obliterate a 4L80E with just tuning in his LLY van and is currently in the process of swapping in an 06 ALLISON as he is tired of tranny problems. And I know pussow(the guy on EBAY who sells the conversion CD on EBAY) also got rid of his 4L80E as it couldn't hold up to his 06 van motor(250HP version). Just remember this when you make your decision, most tranny shops advertise HP numbers that there tranny can hold. But who cares? It's a diesel, so torque is the number you have to concern yourself with. Hence why a 700R4 can be built up to hold up to some pretty high HP small block chevies(550HP+), but even a stock 165HP 6.2L will eventually kill it even built.

So how will a 4l80e from the people at Jake's performance hold up? They say that a stage 5 4l80e from them will hold up to 1800 horse at the wheels from when I talked to them