01 2500HD 4x4 Should I buy???

[Centurion6R]

Hi everyone, as im sure my post count would give away i'm new here. I kind of poked around a bit in this forum and I have a few questions as I'm planning on buying a truck within the week. I'd like to start off by saying i have never owned a diesel pick up and have only driven them for work, so my knowledge is very limited. The truck I'm looking at buying is an '01 2500hd 4x4 crew cab with the 6.6l DMax and automatic transmission. The dealership is asking 14k for it and it has 118k miles on the clock and has been fully winterized (Currently stationed in fairbanks, AK). I took it for a spin today and tried out all of the transfer case options (2h,4h,4l) to make sure all locked in and functioned properly (everything seems to be running fine). Does this sound like a reasonable deal to you and what should i be looking at under the hood and around the truck. Also from this forum i've read that injectors are an issue with this year/model, what should i look for to see if that service has been done and if not how much is replacement normally. And one last thing (I promise) do all of these trucks come with the Allison trans. for this year or should i be looking somewhere in the VIN code to figure that out. Thanks so much in advance for your insight and help, sorry about the long first post.

[85chevyk30]

Trucks with a duramax engine has a allison tranny. If your worried about the injectors ask the dealer to do a vin history on it and see if the injectors has been changed. Also check the transfer case for leaks b/c there common for the pump rubing a hole in the case and causing it to leak. Also check after you drive it look under it and check for puddles on the ground.

[Centurion6R]

ok thanks a lot!! I'll give that a little looksee before i sign on the dotted line then.

[Mark Rinker]

Too old for that money, IMO - look around for an '06 with similar miles for a few thousand more...or if you must stay at that dollar range, at least hold out shop for a 2003 or early 2004 with VIN code '1' in the 8th position - (LB7). Rationale: Depending on the mileage (< 200K) and the GM 'in-service date', you might have a smidge of factory injector warranty left on an '03 or '04...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Silverado-2500-CREW-CAB-153-Silverado-2500HD-Duramax-4x4-Leather-Crew-LT3-LOADED_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3358c61cc7QQitem Z220532710599QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

One maintenance problem with the early LB7 models is the expense of injector replacement. Valve covers must be removed and resealed. Later models (LLY, LBZ, etc.) injectors can all be replaced through the covers, with less labor. Also, transfer case leakage issues seem to be almost certain in early model years, as mentioned...

Don't underestimate the value of REMAINING FACTORY WARRANTY - even a year, or 25K miles before you are on the hook for all repairs can be a nice 'shakedown' period to uncover any items that you'll otherwise have to pay for...

You are on the right path - don't settle for something a dealership is trying to sell you in this market. People trade in trucks for a reason, usually with hidden or deffered maintenance issues. (Why else would you accept trade-in value?) Buy from a confident, honest private party, get the warranty info from a dealership, and maintenance history from the seller, don't buy any jacked-up kid's truck that has been lifted, chipped, and modded - buy an old geezer's bone stock creampuff truck that was used to pull his fishing boat!


Good luck...

[Centurion6R]

thanks a lot mark, in your opinion if these repairs (i.e. injectors, t-case, etc) have already been performed (i'm having the dealer print out a CARFAX on the vehicle as soon as i get a chance to call him), would this then be a decent buy or should i set my sights on something a bit newer still? Also I'm pretty solid on my spending limit and I really need a vehicle in the near-distant future, so if this falls through i may not have the time to wait for another diesel to pop up.

[conway]

Ask the dealer to run a Tech2 check on the injectors & give you the print out. That will also help to see if the injectors are 'fading'.

[Mark Rinker]

IF

the injectors have already been done (recently);

and IF

the transfer case upgrade has been done;

and IF

they will put in writing that they will cover both items for an additional 50K miles;

THEN

its probably a reasonable deal.

HOWEVER (fuzzy logic begins here)

a similar deal on a 2003 or early 2004 with warranty remaining, would be a much safer buy!

REMEMBER

LB7 injector warranty is 7 years from in-service date, or 200K miles, whichever comes first - on any 2001 to early 2004 VIN code '1' truck...

There is NO savings if you spend ~4K (out-of-pocket, not financed) on a new set of 8 injectors within the first two years, IMO!!!


;) (...from an old mainframe computer programmer!)

[Mark Rinker]

thanks a lot mark, in your opinion if these repairs (i.e. injectors, t-case, etc) have already been performed (i'm having the dealer print out a CARFAX on the vehicle as soon as i get a chance to call him), would this then be a decent buy or should i set my sights on something a bit newer still? Also I'm pretty solid on my spending limit and I really need a vehicle in the near-distant future, so if this falls through i may not have the time to wait for another diesel to pop up.

BTW - its not a 'CarFax' that you want, its GMs warranty/service history report, that can be run at any GM dealership with your truck's VIN. If the selling dealer is not GM, take the CarFax, and then go get the GM report from a gen-u-whine GM dealer.

DO NOT BUY THIS TRUCK WITHOUT GETTING THIS REPORT.

[Centurion6R]

The dealer is not a GM dealership, however i called the dealership in town and i'm currently waiting on a response from them...It's starting to seem like this vehicle is a lot more trouble than it's worth

[Mark Rinker]

;) Well don't let me complicate things, but what is suggested here may save you thousands...your call.

[Centurion6R]

well i checked GM's report and the injectors and all of the hoses in the driveline were replaced less than 8k miles ago under warranty, it's an original owner vehicle and i checked underneath and there are no drips or leaks anywhere...also i discovered while under there that the shocks are brand spanking new as well as the winterization kit...i talked the dealer down a grand and brought her home today

[Mark Rinker]

Congrats - sounds like a good deal with recent injectors, hoses, and a clean truck.

There are really no 'bad' years for Duramaxes, just subtle changes over the years, and injector/warranty expenses to be considered. Glad I didn't discourage you from buying.

Look forward to hearing more about your truck as you roll on the miles!

[EdHale]

Were you talking about my truck in an earlier post Mark:

"buy an old geezer's bone stock creampuff truck"

I do have a '06 LBZ that is bone stock and a creampuff. The only changes I have made are the new towing mirrors I bought from Kennedy.

But mine isn't for sale. I'm going to drive it until my son in law inherits it when I no longer need it.

Happy New Years to all.

Ed

[Mark Rinker]

Well, Ed it sure sounds like you have the ideal '06...let me know if that son-in-law doesn't deserve such a nice truck. LOL :D

[Centurion6R]

So today marks my second day of ownership of my 01 dmax...and oh lovely it's -20 degrees out and I'm having difficulty starting it (and by difficulty i mean it's a non-event). I filled it up to 3/4 tank last night from 1/4 that it was when i picked it up from the dealership...and in an awesome newbie move forgot to add anti-gel to the tank. It was plugged in all night, but still didnt want to start, just added anti-gel to the tank, but i'm sure the fuel in the lines is probably gelled as well. Any ideas on how i can get her fired up short of towing to a warm garage?

[Centurion6R]

Congrats - sounds like a good deal with recent injectors, hoses, and a clean truck.

There are really no 'bad' years for Duramaxes, just subtle changes over the years, and injector/warranty expenses to be considered. Glad I didn't discourage you from buying.

Look forward to hearing more about your truck as you roll on the miles!


i'm definitely glad i got it checked out and all...now if i could just get the darned thing started again up here in the frigid arctic we'd be in business hahahan

[NutNbutGMC]

The dealer is not a GM dealership, however i called the dealership in town and i'm currently waiting on a response from them...It's starting to seem like this vehicle is a lot more trouble than it's worth
Good luck.

[Mark Rinker]

i'm definitely glad i got it checked out and all...now if i could just get the darned thing started again up here in the frigid arctic we'd be in business hahahan

What temps are you dealing with? Block heater good? Thats all it should take...4hrs on the plug. Duramaxes are great winter starters/runners...NO ETHER!

[Kennedy]

If you absolutely have to get going, I'd suggest FPPF Meltdown.

Best would be to get it into warmth and treat the fuel properly.

I like FPPF Total Power for all around treatment. If you want to make absolutely certain that you go I would blend in about 30% K1 or D1 for temps as cold as you are seeing.

[Yukon6.2]

Hi
You should be fine with the fuel,every fuel station will be selling winter fuel by now,you could try changing the filter it may be old with water and gunk in it if it hasn't been changed for a while.Try pumping the hand pump till it getts hard to pump then try bleeding out some air from the bleed screw
Are you sure the plug in works?Where was the truck parked at the dealer you bought it from? You could phone them and ask how they got it to go.
Good luck
Thomas

[Mark Rinker]

If it was plugged in, it should be starting at least. Gelling usually doesn't happen until after cold start, then stalls...


Check to make sure your block heater is functional.
When away from a garage, I have used a bullet heater pointed under the front of the truck (NOT TOO CLOSE) and a peice of board back under the firewall from ground to frame, to direct the heat up and around the engine. Pop the hood so the heat can rise and circulate.
Once you get started, get rolling to make heat, don't idle more than a minute or so.

[Kennedy]

Loss of prime can be an issue with the older trucks. I'd try the hand pump until rock hard and see what happens.

I assume that you have good batteries and good cranking speed? This is critical.

[Centurion6R]

ok where in the world is the hand pump haha...the batteries are cranking it pretty good and it was attempting to fire it just seemed as if it wasn't getting enough fuel

[Mark Rinker]

Prime pump is on top of fuel filter, near passenger side battery, at the firewall. First try pumping with bleeder screw closed, should feel very firm, even totally stiff in that kind of cold...open bleeder, pump to verify you have fuel. If not, pump until you do, then close and verify that primer stiffens up, indicating no air...

It gets pretty cold in MN, sometimes colder than AK, and I have NEVER had a Duramax fail to start. Never. Something is amiss, as this is not normal behavior.

How many seconds did the glow plug pre-heat indicator glow, before you turned the key to crank the engine? Look for the little coil looking thing on the dash display. If it doesn't fire within 3-5 seconds of good crank, stop and recycle the key from OFF and get another glow cycle. The second cycle should be much shorter than the initial cycle.

If the truck was plugged in overnight, and the heater is working, it should start easily with little help from the glows.

I'm betting you have no block heat, and/or no glowplug cycle happening.

Q: You did wait for the glowplugs to pre-heat, right?

[Centurion6R]

yes i did wait for the glowplugs to heat, and i'd say the indicator light was on for round abouts 5 seconds...i'll go try to prime it and see what's going on...and maybe crawl underneath and see if the pans are warm to the touch

[Mark Rinker]

The oil pan will not be warm, the heat created by the block heater is in the heads/combustion chambers, not in the oil pan. Follow the 110V cord to the block, see if its warm there.

I use an extension cord with a lighted, clear plug. Can tell that the heater is drawing due to the small spark made when plugging and unplugging. If the heater element were burned out, there would be no load - so no spark. There are certainly more scientific/accurate ways to test the block heater function with a multimeter, probably specs somewhere in the forum archives...

[Centurion6R]

my pans actually have heaters on them too, its a full winterization kit...however i went and checked everything out and yep i sure did lose the prime on it. So i pumped it up and bled it out, only to see little bubbles of fuel and air coming out of the filter gasket area, so i'm venturing a guess that my filter is the cause of the problem...it's just very odd that it was running just fine the other day. But as of right now if i try to prime it all of the pressure just goes away as soon as i close the screw down. Day three, still no running truck...im very frustrated. I went to the parts store and picked up a PS9059A fram fuel filter and I guess i'll give that a shot tomorrow (any tips for installing it as i've never done one)...if that doesnt work i really dont know...im very dissapointed with this truck thus far.

[Mark Rinker]

Use the 'search' function - there are numerous threads on changing fuel filters. Good luck!

(Its -23F here this morning, BTW...)

[JohnC]

There is a rubber seal in the center of the filter that can get stuck to the filter adapter. Make sure it is off before installing the new filter. You may already have an extra one. If the filter doesn't seal it'll not start as the fuel system is suction up to the engine driven pump. Air is easier to suck than fuel. Also, there have been reports of cracked filter housings, too.

Didn't the seller give you some sort or warranty? Let them deal with it!

[Mark Rinker]

Agree strongly with John...that is cold, but it should start, especially if plugged in with all that coolant and oil heat!

[Centurion6R]

well the dealership is open today for the first time in three days, so i'm going to go into town and have a few words with them for sure. I'm just confused as to how THEY got it running as vehicles on their lot sit there not plugged in until someone wants to test drive it...my dmax has been plugged in for two days now and lost the prime and as it looks im going to have to change the fuel filter out in the blistering cold...given the filter is leaking like it is i'm wondering how it was running so well when i picked it up

[78Chev]

When I bought my 06 the fuel filter was leaking like crazy after the dealer's shop changed it. They used channel locks to install the WIF sensor, completely distorting it and causing it to leak. If you want something done right... Mine never had a starting issue though. Good luck.

[jbplock]

FYI .. There's an excellent How-to article on Duramax Fuel Filter Replacement in the member's area .. http://www.thedieselpage.com/members/duramax/dmaxfuelfilt.htm

[Centurion6R]

SHE LIVES!!!!! dealership came and picked it up and took care of it, she's running stellar now...apprently there was some signs that someone cold cranked it prior, so they gave it a full synthetic oil change for free as well..they also checked my heaters and said all were working correctly as well as the on-board charger for the batteries...

[Centurion6R]

well thanks to a very honest and trustworthy dealer, i'm back on the road

[Mark Rinker]

What did they fix or change?

[Centurion6R]

well they towed it in (at their cost) and let it warm up in the garage and it fired right up, they changed the oil because they said it needed it anyways. I let them keep it overnight to make sure it would start in the morning, and lo and behold she wasn't having it...I'm thinking they havent checked the filter because it's having the same situation i was having the other night...i'll bring it up tommorow as i've already purchased a new filter and have them install it. They said they might need to put a new cold plug in?? not really sure what that is

[Mark Rinker]

Block heater element is shot, my guess...either that, or you have no glow plug function...very unlikely that it would be both. (Again, Duramaxes start well in the cold, if things are working correctly. What you are experiencing (no start, tow, etc.) is a rarity around here, and a bit troublesome to me for a truck that was just sold off a dealer lot, in the same climate you live in...)

Probably the block heater, if you are seeing normal glow cycles when turning the key to 'ON'...how many seconds does the 'yellow-coil-thingy' ;) dash indicator stay on, when you try cold starting?

[Mark Rinker]

SHE LIVES!!!!! dealership came and picked it up and took care of it, she's running stellar now...apprently there was some signs that someone cold cranked it prior, so they gave it a full synthetic oil change for free as well..they also checked my heaters and said all were working correctly as well as the on-board charger for the batteries...

We have two interesting and inter-related threads going here, I am going to merge them in hopes of creating some clarity.

My concern is that the dealership may have changed the oil, after noticing fuel dilution. Who knows, maybe they are just nice guys. :rolleyes:

When you get the truck back, check the oil fill level, and keep checking it rigorously. If the oil level begins to rise, well... search the forums about LB7s that 'make oil'...

No need for panic just yet, just one thing at a time!

[Centurion6R]

yeah they said the oil was contaminated and they said that was an issue with people cold cranking them without being plugged in??? not really sure what that means

[Centurion6R]

Block heater element is shot, my guess...either that, or you have no glow plug function...very unlikely that it would be both. (Again, Duramaxes start well in the cold, if things are working correctly. What you are experiencing (no start, tow, etc.) is a rarity around here, and a bit troublesome to me for a truck that was just sold off a dealer lot, in the same climate you live in...)

Probably the block heater, if you are seeing normal glow cycles when turning the key to 'ON'...how many seconds does the 'yellow-coil-thingy' ;) dash indicator stay on, when you try cold starting?

there is no coil thingy but i was guessing the "wait to start" light was the glow plug indicator, and that stays on for about 5-10 seconds depending on ambient temperature. The dealer said all the heaters were functioning properly as well...so i'm thinking it's an issue with the fuel filter being plugged causing to lose prime in the cold.

[Mark Rinker]

I guess it would be possible* to contaminate the crankcase oil with extended cranking, but unlikely. Never heard of it happening here.

Q1: How long, sum total, did you crank the truck during your initial no-start condition?

Q2: Did you ever pull the dipstick on the truck? If so, where was the oil level?

Level should not have been anywhere on the narrow 'cable' portion of the dipstick, only somewhere on the wide 'plumb-bob' looking level gauge fixed at the end.

Watch the current oil level you have now, after the oil change, very carefully. There is a 'test' elsewhere on TDP forums, using a paper towel wicking test to detect diesel fuel in crankcase oil. You might try that.

[Centurion6R]

to be honest mark i cranked it quite a bit initially, because of being so used to gasoline engines and just cranking the living hell out of them until they catch...haha wrong answer i know...but i did take a look at the fluids before purchasing the truck, and the oil level was not above where it should be...im really just kinda hoping for the filter being the issue, as i've already purchased one but they're gonna take another look at it tomorrow, hopefully with better results this time

[Mark Rinker]

Hopefully, thats all it was. Any water in the fuel will be separated by the filter. When temps drop, the water freezes and makes the filter restrictive.

However, if you were cranking with no success, due to lack of fuel - then how does the oil get duluted?

[Centurion6R]

well we're back on the road again...just had to replace the block heater (at dealer's expense) and now it starts right up in the frigid weather, thanks for all hte help guys