Poor Starts

[BillCarry]

Last fall I had a new P400 engine installed in my 1994 P-32 motor home by Peninsular Diesel. This included a new IP, new injectors and new glow plugs (GPs sold by Penninsular, but I don't know where they come from). My motor home, purchsed new in '94, had about 177000 miles on it and I made the decision that I was going to keep it forever so even tho it was running well with no engine problems, I went and did this.

I was very pleased with the results. The engine started much more quickly and smoothly than the original ever did.

Live in Michigan. Took off for Florida late in February. A couple of weeks later I began to have starting problems. The nice, fast starts went away, and I began to have a no start condition when things were hot. Cranked fine, but no combustion. After checking starter voltage drop, glow plugs, etc. I became convinced that it was a lack of fuel. I was in SW Florida and guided to Victory Layne Chevy in Ft. Meyers. The have a truck and diesel department that is kind of a stand alone shop. They quickly diagnosed a faulty injector pump. The work order states "Found Injector Pump has failed, excessive closure time code P1216 when hot 2.06MS. They replaced the pump and my problem went away, although the cold starts were not as quick as before, the hot starts great. Returned to Michigan late last week with temps in the 30s and 40s. Cold starts are now delayed and a bit stumblely at these temps.

The injector pump installed by Peninsular was the latest and greatest version by Stanadyne with the gray FSD. The pump ID tag has the following numbers; JO DS4 631-5521S, J, 15496635, and DS5521S.

The dealer installed a GM service pump (remanufactured) GM p/n 19209059, serial #25713, with the black GM FSD ( I assume the later version not the black Stanadyne unit).

I've got to get the original pump back to Peninsular to file a warranty claim.

I'm not happy with the cold start situation at all now. Does anyone have any thoughts or similar experiences with these later pumps? Appreciate any input.

[Mark Rinker]

Every 6.5L I owned had 'delayed and stumbly' cold starts below 20F, even when on the block heater.

Suprised you don't have a Turbomaster and Heath chip installed, especially with a large unit like a motorhome. Wow would that wake things up, even save its cost in time.

What kind of mileage do you average?

[JohnC]

The cold start issues could be due to differences in pump timing between the old one to the new one. Do you have a way to read the TDC offset?

Your original pump is a DS4-5521. There should be a similar tag on the new pump.

I'd hang on to the PMD off the old pump if you can.

[Kennedy]

The key to cold starts (assuming you have cranking speed) is heat in teh chamber.

The thread below is a similar situation that was cured with better plugs and better programming:

http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=38419


I really doubt your pump was bad. I've seen poor cold starts result in DTC's condemning the pump. In one SUMMER I had the pump replaced on my '96 3 times under warranty for poor starts and closure time errors. I ended up replacing the plugs which were a period specific set of 11g's that were problematic and no problems after that...

[ronniejoe]

If the glow system is working properly and the engine is relatively healthy, the 6.5 will start cleanly with no block heat down to well below zero. Even reduced compression (18:1) engines (mine) will if the glow time programming is properly modified. The 6.5 is generally a good starting engine.

Did you check to ensure that your lift pump was functioning properly? This can affect starting, especially in hot conditions. Also, that code is usually associated with the FSD and can be cured with replacement of that component alone. It can also be caused by faulty chassis and system grounds. Since your engine was recently replaced, I would recommend checking all of the ground straps to ensure that they are tight and clean.

[BillCarry]

Every 6.5L I owned had 'delayed and stumbly' cold starts below 20F, even when on the block heater.

Suprised you don't have a Turbomaster and Heath chip installed, especially with a large unit like a motorhome. Wow would that wake things up, even save its cost in time.

What kind of mileage do you average?

I consistently get 11.5 to 12 mpg on my trips to Florida and back - usually around 4000 miles. I usually keep the interstate speed a little over 60 mph.

[racer55]

I would be leaning more towards low quality glow plugs than injector pump.

A set of glow plugs from Kennedy or bosh duratherms with a glow plug overide mod or reprogrammed ecm would likely solve the problem.

[TAG]

I had the inj pump replaced on my truck at 95,000 miles under warranty. The starting was just like a gas engine before replacement. After replacement I had the smoky misfiring starts ever since. I complained to gm & they wouldnt do anything. I tried a zillion fixes over the last 10 years with this pump & nothing made any difference till 2 months ago I finally broke down & added an extended glow plug mod. Holy crap what a difference in starting cold. Should have done this a long time ago. Apparently some pumps have this tendency & no one knows why.

[rustyk]

Peninsular (who also made my engine) shipped a short block and we reused the old AC-11s. I replaced them with AC-60s, and starts are better.

However, my main problem with cold starts (even around 55°+F) turned out to be battery/chassis grounds. I cleaned them thoroughly, and starts are crisp, even below freezing.