Thinking about ordering a 2012 Denali HD

[GlockandRoll]

Is the Allison transmission worth it if I am only going to be occasionally hauling a muscle-car on a trailer? What are the other benefits, does it help, or hurt, MPG on the interstate?

What other "in the know" information should I consider with the 2012 Duramax?

Thanks!

[Mark Rinker]

Yes.

The Allison has proven itself to be reliable and economic for both loaded and unloaded miles - i.e. you aren't leaving economy on the table for the majority of your unloaded miles.

They are about as bullet-proof as a transmission can be. In nearly 700K towing and snowplowing miles, we have had one failure that can likely be attributed to operator abuse, combined with overpowering the transmission with power adders on the truck.

Do it. You won't be sorry, and the truck will be easier to trade or sell in the future!

[GlockandRoll]

Thanks for the info.
What should I do for increased MPG, gear selections, tuners, EGR/DPF deletes, etc?

[DmaxMaverick]

Thanks for the info.
What should I do for increased MPG, gear selections, tuners, EGR/DPF deletes, etc?

You could spend on upgrades to help with economy. The bottom line is, none of them (as in none) will return your investment in anything resembling a reasonable time period. Perhaps, the "deletes" you mention (adding DEF to the list), and the help of an economy program (Kennedy) will get you closer, or maybe a bit of a return if you are a high miler in a short time. Some of the mods can help extend service needs, while others can shorten them. You have to weigh the entire package, and calculate the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership). In almost every case, an adjustment of driving habits, dependent on the current conditions, is the only possibility to actual savings.

[GlockandRoll]

You could spend on upgrades to help with economy. The bottom line is, none of them (as in none) will return your investment in anything resembling a reasonable time period. Perhaps, the "deletes" you mention (adding DEF to the list), and the help of an economy program (Kennedy) will get you closer, or maybe a bit of a return if you are a high miler in a short time. Some of the mods can help extend service needs, while others can shorten them. You have to weigh the entire package, and calculate the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership). In almost every case, an adjustment of driving habits, dependent on the current conditions, is the only possibility to actual savings.

Thanks for the info.
I was just wondering if I could add a cold-air intake and free flow exhaust and a bullydog tuner to "lean it out" etc.. for the interstate and gain a few MPG. I appreciate the help!

[DmaxMaverick]

You could do that, but what you spend will never be realized in the savings. You won't get a "few" MPG with only those mods, no matter how you frame it. It takes more than that. If you drive more frugal, you could do better MPG's, but the mods usually have a counterproductive effect. Having more power usually results in using it, which will always cause less MPG. Contact Kennedy for a mileage-specific program, if that's truly your goal.

[GlockandRoll]

You could do that, but what you spend will never be realized in the savings. You won't get a "few" MPG with only those mods, no matter how you frame it. It takes more than that. If you drive more frugal, you could do better MPG's, but the mods usually have a counterproductive effect. Having more power usually results in using it, which will always cause less MPG. Contact Kennedy for a mileage-specific program, if that's truly your goal.

I wonder if Jonathan Goodwin at H-line would convert it over to the Kruger "diesel on gas" mods for me.. or if he is still only doing Hummer conversions. That and the LincVolt project has him spread pretty thin?

They claim very high 20's MPG with nearly double the torque and cutting emissions by more than half.

[GlockandRoll]

Also, on the 2012 Denali HD 2500 crew-cab, what is the MPG hit I would take w/a 4WD over 2WD?

[DmaxMaverick]

Hogwash. Snake oil. Etc.

Of all the motor fuels, Diesel has the highest BTU per volume, by a wide margin. LPG is at the lower end of the scale, and CNG is lower than LPG. If you were able to provide all the O2 for a complete burn (maximum efficiency), the net power output will be less for the same volume of pure #2. The only advantage to alternative fuels is the cost of those fuels, compared to Diesel. If you fill bottles of LPG or CNG, as opposed to filling a tank on a vehicle, you avoid paying use taxes (road tax and others). You are supposed to keep records, then submit your share of the taxes along with your tax return. Of course, most people don't do this, and pocket the savings. In the end, you'll run into the same roadblock: it isn't likely you'll drive the vehicle long enough, or far enough, to recover your initial investment to realize the economic improvement. Also, most calculations, and nearly all of the alternative fuel system sellers don't include the alternative fuel usage in the claimed MPG (they assume you are getting your alternative fuel for free, and have an unlimited supply). The remainder use a lot of fuzzy math to "justify" their system. The end result is the same. No net gain, and in almost all cases, a substantial net loss. The Diesel-LPG companion systems have been around for a long time, so this isn't something new. If there were any significant gains to be had, we'd all be doing it. There are a lot of ways to reduce your TCO, but this isn't one of them. Add to that, it will complicate an already far too complicated vehicle. More stuff to go wrong, which will happen at some point, and I've yet to hear of it happening at a convenient time/place.

[DmaxMaverick]

Also, on the 2012 Denali HD 2500 crew-cab, what is the MPG hit I would take w/a 4WD over 2WD?

Negligible, if any.

[GlockandRoll]

Hogwash. Snake oil. Etc.

Of all the motor fuels, Diesel has the highest BTU per volume, by a wide margin. LPG is at the lower end of the scale, and CNG is lower than LPG. If you were able to provide all the O2 for a complete burn (maximum efficiency), the net power output will be less for the same volume of pure #2. The only advantage to alternative fuels is the cost of those fuels, compared to Diesel. If you fill bottles of LPG or CNG, as opposed to filling a tank on a vehicle, you avoid paying use taxes (road tax and others). You are supposed to keep records, then submit your share of the taxes along with your tax return. Of course, most people don't do this, and pocket the savings. In the end, you'll run into the same roadblock: it isn't likely you'll drive the vehicle long enough, or far enough, to recover your initial investment to realize the economic improvement. Also, most calculations, and nearly all of the alternative fuel system sellers don't include the alternative fuel usage in the claimed MPG (they assume you are getting your alternative fuel for free, and have an unlimited supply). The remainder use a lot of fuzzy math to "justify" their system. The end result is the same. No net gain, and in almost all cases, a substantial net loss. The Diesel-LPG companion systems have been around for a long time, so this isn't something new. If there were any significant gains to be had, we'd all be doing it. There are a lot of ways to reduce your TCO, but this isn't one of them. Add to that, it will complicate an already far too complicated vehicle. More stuff to go wrong, which will happen at some point, and I've yet to hear of it happening at a convenient time/place.

I think you should go pay Jonathan Goodwin and Uli Kruger a visit in Witchita Kansas, and see what they are doing before you instantly discredit it.

[DmaxMaverick]

Sales, marketing and grant applications circumvent science. The question, and discussion, is economy. If your vehicle gets 40 MPG, but your investment/maintenance offset costs you 30 MPG over 20 years and 500K miles, your net MPG is 10.

No fuzzy math. No fuzzy science. No fuzzy logic.

If you want a 2012 light truck that will get you 40 MPG from the first day, just send me $535M and I'll deliver it in 24-36 months. Absolutely guaranteed. (Unless I file bankruptcy in the meanwhile)

[GlockandRoll]

Sales, marketing and grant applications circumvent science. The question, and discussion, is economy. If your vehicle gets 40 MPG, but your investment/maintenance offset costs you 30 MPG over 20 years and 500K miles, your net MPG is 10.

No fuzzy math. No fuzzy science. No fuzzy logic.

If you want a 2012 light truck that will get you 40 MPG from the first day, just send me $535M and I'll deliver it in 24-36 months. Absolutely guaranteed. (Unless I file bankruptcy in the meanwhile)

So that's how this forum works?
I find that regrettable.

[More Power]

So that's how this forum works?
I find that regrettable.

So, someone with little to no experience with diesels falls into a trap or good sounding spin, and believes it. You are taking as gospel something that is said by someone who has an economic incentive to make you believe. What you're reading here is based on 2-3 decades of diesel pickup ownership, experimentation with all sorts of gee-whiz products, and basic common sense accumulated the hard way.

What advice you get from the forum leaders is the real deal. That's how this forum works. Jim

[GlockandRoll]

So, someone with little to no experience with diesels falls into a trap or good sounding spin, and believes it. You are taking as gospel something that is said by someone who has an economic incentive to make you believe. What you're reading here is based on 2-3 decades of diesel pickup ownership, experimentation with all sorts of gee-whiz products, and basic common sense accumulated the hard way.

What advice you get from the forum leaders is the real deal. That's how this forum works. Jim

Who said I didn't know anything about diesels?

How do you know I'm not driving one now, and been involved in alternative fuel research going back to the late 80's as an engineering student working on a Ford/SEA sponsored project, and been involved - partly - in an X-prize car team, or building a high-performance bio-fueled hybrid fuel muscle car right now? How can you make such assumptions???

I just asked if the allison trans was a good buy.. and asked about MPG mods, and the goderators here... well... seemed to have flown off half cocked by this. It seems you have an aversion to learning about what guys are doing out there quite honestly, and I really dont care for the tone here. Especially when the replies are so full or wrong assumptions. Which I can only attribute to not taking a look at the interviews with Jonathan Goodwin. He's built cars for celebrities and been on TV several times, you think he is just ripping people off?

Dont even bother responding, I'm canceling my subscription to this thread and will try to forget ever posting here.

[kaylabryn]

I wish you would not leave mad. The guys around here are actually quite knowledgeable. You have to understand that spammers will start a new profile then engage in spreading hype about theirs or someone they know invention or scam. Give these guys a chance if you are serious about discussion. Many people here will need to see proof and many are probably willing to entertain a meeting for a bonafide demonstration of said technology, or better yet donate a sample for testing by one of the many qualified people on this forum. I do hope you recondsider.

Mike

[Inspector]

Isn't it interesting that he was asking about the Allison with his alleged background and experience. I would think that he would already have had that knowledge. Just saying
Denny

[DmaxMaverick]

Textbook expert. Just saying.

[SoTxPollock]

Go ahead leave, its your loss.

[JohnC]

and a bullydog tuner to "lean it out" ...

That was the one that got my ears up...