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View Full Version : Over rated (overloaded?) trailer axles.



DickWells
02-24-2014, 10:20
One of the first lessons that Jean and I learned, back about 14 years ago, was to look very closely at tire and axle specs on trailers, though in reality, we found that most, if not all, were marginal with their original equipment.

I've talked a lot on TDP about my tire woes, and have tried to eliminate that problem, and succeeded to a great extent. But. Our Keystone Montana Mountaineer TT has 5250 lb axles x2, and is rated to gross 11,300 lbs. We usually gross right around 11,000 when we're on the road. Ask a dealer, or Keystone about the margin, and you'll always get the stock answer. "You have to deduct the tongue weight, sir." We'll, yes, of course, but where's the margin?!

Here's the story and the reason for the post: In 07, with nearly new LR-E tires all around (stock tires were LR-D), I found huge toe-out on the rear axle, and huge negative camber (wear on the inside of tread). Was in St. George, Utah at the time, and a guy named Dave Smith did a fine job of aligning our trailer. I asked him what I had hit, and he told me "nothing, it was like that from the factory. Ninety + percent of trailers are delivered, needing a line-up." The tire wear stopped, for a while, then, in 09, having up-graded to 16" cast aluminum wheels and BFG Commercial TA's, I had the alignment checked immediately, in Washington State, since my rear tires had been wearing rapidly on the inside again. Negative camber - again!

Now, after a couple of years without any noticeable wear to speak of, I find that I have wear occurring on the inside tread on the rear axle again. What I get from this, and correct me if I'm wrong, is, that I'm probably overloaded for my axles. I do have a lot of rear overhang, and I do have a lot of weight back there. Our BR closet is full width at the very rear (and clothes really count up), with outside storage under that, and I do carry my three-piece aluminum loading ramps mounted on the outside, above the bumper. They weigh ~100+ lbs. all told. Then, inside, above the closet, there's probably another 80 lbs., or so of stored junk, plus the weight of the bed slide, W-storage underneath, both inside and outside, and, the whole weight of the bureau at the foot of the bed and cabinet storage above that. ALL of this weight is behind the rear axle center-line, too. And yet, I'm not over the 11,300 lbs. My best guess is that I'm bending the rear axle at some random time, what with all that weight back there. This could occur inboard of the spring perch, or, more likely, outboard, where the spindle may be just weak enough to bend upward under sudden impact. ????

Thinking about possible solutions, I'm in a sort of dilemma, because - 1: I don't think that higher capacity axles are available with a 6 bolt pattern. Am I right? If they are, that would be the best answer

2: I'm 74 years old, and I don't know how many more years I will be doing this --- if tires last me 3 years before replacement, then new axles (and maybe another full set of very expensive wheels to boot) don't make much sense.

3: The only real "given" here, is that I have no intention of trading trailers. Got too much tied up in this one. We love the floor plan. I've replaced almost every fastener with SS. There's the aforementioned aluminum wheels (with Smart Tire sensors, BTW). Acrylic awnings everywhere. And, it's "home".

Any advise, input, etc. will be appreciated.

DW

markelectric
02-27-2014, 09:04
I would order a set of 7000lb axles for it. If you have 16in wheels already, you can order it with the correct 6 bolt hub face.

The parts of the bigger axle manufactures will work on each others stuff way more than you would guess.

The 7000lb axles will increase your braking a great deal over the 5200

DmaxMaverick
02-27-2014, 09:26
Also consider the capacity of the wheels. More so than the axles and tires, the wheels are limited. Steel or cast aluminum are usually rated below that of the axle, especially if it's over 5K. I don't know of any cast aluminum 6 lug wheel that can use near the capacity of a 7K axle. Forged aluminum wheels, on the other hand, can be had in that capacity, but I don't know of any heavy/extreme duty wheels that are available in 6 lug. Then there's the hub and bearings.... If you're going that route, it's much more practical to just replace the axle, wheels and rubber with an acceptable rating. No easy (cheap) way out, really.

DickWells
02-27-2014, 21:07
Thanks, guys. I didn't know that the 7000 lb. axles could be had with 6 lug pattern. My new wheels are American Eagle, and seem to be fine for 90 psi tires. I have six of them now, and would hate to have to change them, along with axles.

Funny thing: There's a pair of 7000 lb. axles up in S.D. that have been stored in a barn for several years, now, and they're mine if want them. Trouble is, they're eight lug. Then, there's the issue of getting them to Vermont or Texas!

a5150nut
02-28-2014, 01:03
Dick,

Wouldn't it be a lot cheaper if you have a pair of axels to jut get the 6 lug hubs to fit them? ;)

EdHale
02-28-2014, 04:55
I have 7,000 lb axles and 8 lug aluminum wheels under my 5'er. I was surprised and happy to find the wheels were rated for 110 psi when I replaced the original "E" rated tires with "G" rated last spring. The cost of the tires was bad enough without having to replace the wheels also.

markelectric
02-28-2014, 18:18
I have a set of 6 lug drums/hubs that I would be glad to trade for 8 lug ones. only have 1000 miles on them

convert2diesel
02-28-2014, 20:47
Dick:

Is the chassis on your TT open channel or box steel. Granted mine is much smaller, but have noticed a fair bit of flex in the chassis, especially trying to wrap it into a campsite. Have the same issue with the rear right tire, yet the alignment is dead on. That tire always runs a bit warmer and is wearing on the inside edge.

The newer channel chassis are like tissue paper. I never run fully loaded. Always at least 1,000 lbs. under.

Maybe on the road, the chassis moves enough to throw one or all of the axles slightly out, especially with the load your carrying.

Just a thought.

Bill

DickWells
03-01-2014, 21:16
Hi, Bill. The rails are open channel. No trailer that I've ever towed has been flex free. Still, I doubt that is my problem. Had another look underneath today and there's little doubt in my mind that the rear axle and/or the spindles are bending. My front axle tires are wearing flat across, while both rears are noticeably worn on the inside.

The idea to try to find 6 lug hubs had entered my mind, and, now that you mention it, I think I'm going to look into that. Thanks for getting me pointed. Now, you have me wondering how the heck I could stop by, up in SD, and dismantle the whole outfit (the springs are still on them, IIRC) and make my poor old Sierra haul it back to VT, come April. I have right around a ton on the pickup, what with 900 lbs. of Spyder in the back, enough tools to rebuild the whole outfit, a 2000 W generator, a chain saw, a gas tree limber, tire chains, winch for pulling the Spyder in, plus the wife and myself, and that doesn't include the 1160 lbs. of tongue weight! Man, I gotta go on a diet! Another 400 lbs.? + on top of everything else? Maybe on the living room floor? Dunno. Something to think about.

Thanks.

convert2diesel
03-02-2014, 09:00
Met a couple last year in Myrtle Beach that, like you, over winter down south. They do use their TT during the summer but after some soul searching realized they had a bunch of stuff they only used in the winter, like extra chairs, beach umbrellas, portable propane fireplace, etc. Were surprised to find out just how much stuff you collect but only use occasionally, or in our case, never at all. Added up to over 1,500 lbs.

Now they make their last stop in Myrtle beach every year and the day before they go home, they rent a storage locker for a few months and put all their winter stuff in there till they return south. They empty all the tanks (they just use a 5 gallon jerry can for water on the road) and dump out all the extra crap they had collected. In the end they saved almost a ton in weight and made the trip home much more comfortable all the way around.

In regards to the axles, is there any way to verify the spindle diameter and spring lengths of the bigger axles you have? You may well find that your current hubs and spring mounts are a direct swap. That way you're only out a set of brake drums. Just a thought.

Bill

DickWells
03-02-2014, 19:49
Hi, Bill. Well, I keep trying to eliminate weight on every pass, E - W, or W -E, and it never seems to quite work out. One thing that I am consistent about is fluids. I never carry more than ~ 15 gal. or so of clear water, and I don't let the other three tanks collect much. I'd really hate to let go of any "toy", and I always collect a bunch of stuff from Harbor Freight to take home, though they (usually) consist of more safety goggles, hearing protectors, etc. Still, I'm very aware of the fact that I'm towing a little heavier each year. Regardless, the Spyder, chainsaw, limber, generator, and a whole lot of other junk are here in TX and need to go home with us. One thing: Clothes; I could easily do without a good 2-300 lbs. of textile, Ill bet.

No way that I know of to get a reading on the specs for those axles in SD. My friend (from KY) up-graded his beautiful Alpenlite, back a few years. Put in an Air Ride suspension and electric/hydraulic brakes, IIRC. They just quit coming here as of last Spring, when they had to give it up because of his medical problems. He just left the axles in SD with a friend. They sold their trailer and Dodge Cummins, last Fall, at the same time that we stopped by to visit in KY.
Don't know if I'll put the effort into checking it all out, or not. The extra cost of going up and around to SD would add quite a bit to the bill, and mean a lot of other logistical issues as well. Will give my friend a call and talk to our son, back home. Maybe I can come up with some data.

convert2diesel
03-03-2014, 20:47
My major failing is Harbor Freight as well. We don't have them up here so anytime I'm south of the border I tend to "stock up". Problem is, I never seem to remove them from the trailer when I get home. Trailer is better equipped than my garage right now.

When we moved up to the new TT, and went about moving stuff over, I could'nt believe just how much stuff we had crammed into the old popup and how much of it we hadn't even looked at for years. That's when we decided to go on a diet. Why pray tell do you need 3 Coleman stoves and two BBQs? Carol found a complete set of dishes that we had used in our original popup over 10 years before but had never pulled out since. It all adds up.

Good luck and be careful on your way home. Looks like spring ain't going to happen much before mid June up here, so stay south as long as you can.

Bill

DennisG01
03-06-2014, 08:10
I read through the posts, but maybe I missed it and this point was already brought up...

Is the problem primarily on the rear axle? Maybe all you need to do is redistribute the weight for your trips. I travel with a large boat, and I know this isn't always the easiest thing to do - constantly moving around your stuff. But at least this would be a "freebie".

Have you had the rig on a scale? You can check the weight on each axle and then you'd at least know for sure what you're dealing with.

And, yes, it's not uncommon for trailers (although I'm speaking from the boat trailer side) to have axles mis-aligned.

DickWells
03-06-2014, 17:25
Hi, Dennis.
Yes, I've had it on the scales, and have the weights written down, somewhere. I realize that I'm partly to blame, simply because I'm hauling so much stuff around. But the manufacturers could do a lot to eliminate these problems, if they'd just put enough beef into their units to at least handle the stated design load. I've never exceeded the 11,300 lbs. that the sticker says. The Keystone Montana Mountaineer was noted for being too heavy for 15 inch LR-D tires. Putting 16 inch LR-E's on has seemed to cure the tire problem.

Tongue weight and height, weight distribution, and, especially the long rear overhang, all conspire to put a bigger burden on the rear axle. I weighed less than 19,000 # all-up, going to AK and back, and had no alignment/tire wear problems, so that pretty much tells me that leaving a ton behind is one good answer. I had left our 900 # ATV, all my guns, a lot of clothes, chainsaw, and a whole bunch of stuff in OR for that trip. Nowadays we weigh over 21,000. Interesting that I averaged a bit over 13 mpg. on that trip, while I'm lucky to average 12, these days. Weight matters.

I'll be looking to re-distribute things, to whatever degree I can, but the fact is that with the rear trailer tires wearing, the damage has already been done. Heavier running gear is no doubt the best answer, but I won't be able to change things before heading back to VT at the end of March.

Thanks for the input, everyone.