BP Autran syn 295, same as Transyn?

[LEE BROWN]

I've been told this is the same as Transyn for use in my 2006 Duramax. Is it true?

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r254/lee1972b/20140801_200350_zpscxkwzm7g.jpg (http://s146.photobucket.com/user/lee1972b/media/20140801_200350_zpscxkwzm7g.jpg.html)

[DmaxMaverick]

They are not the same. TES-295 is an Allison compatibility standard, which predates Dexron VI, which is the GM approved ATF for your 2006. Castrol Transynd is rated TES-295 compatible, and may have been updated to the Dexron VI standard, but you'll have to check the label to verify. It may be compatible, but you'll have to contact an Allison service center to verify it is suitable for use in the 2006+ Allison MT1000. GM will have one answer, which is, Dexron VI is the only GM approved ATF. Also keep in mind, even if a fluid is compatible with a specific transmission, it may not be compatible with the remainder of a system.

[cabletech]

You can use any TES-295 approved trans fluid in your 2006. The owner manual for my 2010 recommends it when temps are below zero (see below). Most 2006 Allisons built for the light duty trucks are actually not Dex VI compatible. Your dealer can look up the serial number and tell you which one it's compatible with. The only real problem is with seals getting hard when Dex VI is used in older transmissions.
When GM spun off Allison is when Dex VI became the standard fluid in Allisons put in GM light duty trucks. Since the spin off, GM's Allisons are built in Baltimore (with parts from Allison) and all others are built in Indianapolis.


In cold operation, Allison
recommends using Synthetic
Transmission Fluid approved to
Allison Transmission specification
TES-295 in areas where the
minimum ambient temperatures are
below −40°C (−40°F).

Jay

[LEE BROWN]

So, what's in my 2006 truck from the factory?

[DmaxMaverick]

So, what's in my 2006 truck from the factory?

Dexron VI. It's the only ATF recommended by GM for the 2006+ Allison equipped GM Light Trucks. The Allison recommendations predate 2006, and therefore are not valid.

[LEE BROWN]

Is all dextron 6 synthetic?

[DmaxMaverick]

"Synthetic Blend" is the best answer I could get from the GM circle. Other full synthetic brands may be Dexron VI compatible. Dexron VI has a significantly lower beginning viscosity, compared to Dexron III. A transmission requiring Dexron VI may have issues with heavier fluids.

[LEE BROWN]

My manual simply reads "dextron VI".

[Kennedy]

The TES295 thing can get a bit tricky. From what I understand there are only 2 mfrs that make truly tested and approved TES 295 fluid plus one that reverse engineered it and says it meets the standard.

If you go to the Allison site you will find the TES 295 approved fluids. I have read and been told that all but one are just repackaged Allison/Castrol Transynd. The other is said to be Mobil who purchases the additive pkg from Allison/Castrol.

My preference is the Transynd fluid myself.

[LEE BROWN]

I called the parts store that sells both and he said it's the same as Transynd plus I found these two links.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1739757



http://www.oem-engineering.com/products/allisontes295fluid.html

[DmaxMaverick]

I'm not sure where you're trying to go with this, but, if it doesn't specify it's compatible with, or approved for Dexron VI, I wouldn't put it in my 2006+ GM/Allison. The risk is great, and an error is expensive. If you have a bulk of this stuff, I suggest using it somewhere else, where it's appropriate. Nowhere on their label, or on their white paper does it suggest it's compatible with Dexron VI. The TES-295 spec has nothing to do with Dexron VI spec. Nothing. The TES-295 spec hasn't been updated since well before the introduction of Dexron VI.

At the same time, GM is no longer licensing ANY ATF not designated as Dexron VI. Meaning, even if you have a requirement for Dexron III, there's no assurance any fluid even meets prior GM specs for Dexron III. There's no accountability. Prior GM Dexron III specification, any more, only applies to manual transmissions, and NONE of the auto's.

[Kennedy]

Transynd is Allison's flagship fluid. Using Transynd they double the service intervals and warranty. GM opted to go the less expensive route with Dex III and now Dex VI.

I'm no oil expoert, but I imagine that Dex VI is more about economy than anything. Like the modern starburst symbol and 0w auto oils that trade off anti wear for anti friction and take most of the zinc out.

I believe Dex II was a 11 wt, Dex II 7 wt and Dev VI 5 wt?

[EdHale]

I'm not going to tease the gorilla. My owner's manual says Dex VI and the dip stick says Dex VI. I'm using Dex VI period.

[Kennedy]

http://www.allisontransmission.com/parts-service/approved-fluids

[DmaxMaverick]

http://www.allisontransmission.com/parts-service/approved-fluids

Allison's website, and any publications I can find only apply to commercial, medium/heavy duty applications. They provide no documentation or recommendations for Light Truck consumer applications, GM or otherwise. The extended service intervals and warranty extension language specifically applies to commercial, medium/heavy duty use. They also have no application suggesting any reference to Dexron VI fluid. Previous documentation actually had a recommendation for Dexron III in light duty applications, but it's been updated since, with all reference to any Dexron fluid removed.

According to Castrol's website, the only Dexron VI certified fluid is Transmax Dexron. Transynd is only recommended up to Dexron III. Beware, Transynd RD is NOT any Dexron or TES-295 certified fluid.

Since GM's license release of Dexron III and all previous Dexron fluids in 2006, the only remaining Dexron III recommendations relate to manual transmissions and gear boxes, and "older" vehicles.

[Kennedy]

I'm fully aware of the application differences simply pointing out that Allison has enough confidence in this fluid to double intervals in rigorous environments.

Every HP transmission job that I have done gets Transynd.

GM opted for the lesser expensive fluid.

I still have my suspicions that DEX VI is more of a sell out/mandate like anti friction motor oils. better for fuel economy, but not for wear.

[DmaxMaverick]

I have no doubt the change was, at least in part, an economical one for GM. However, economically driven changes don't always equal lower overall quality. Less friction is less wear, so the trade-off, if it exists, may be an even one, or better. Less friction is less heat. Less heat is less load. Less load is less fuel consumption. Less friction + less heat + less load = improved fuel economy. I don't see a disadvantage here, unless it comes at a higher future maintenance cost, which I haven't seen or heard of, yet. If the driving goal is a fraction of a percent improved fuel economy, they sure took the long road getting there. If you're a fan of ZDDP, you can always add it. However, that may come at a cost, in itself. Also, moving away from traditional mineral oils has advantages of their own, in that the need of additives are not the same. In many cases, many anti-wear additives are not necessary with the use of many synthetic bases. I don't know if this is the case with Dexron VI, but it has been proved again and again for decades with motor and gear oils.

I'm only saying I need a little more than a mere suspicion before I consider second-guessing the engineers. The Dexron VI publications I've read all say basically the same thing, probably required by licensing requirements, and that is it is more economical, reduces wear, and extends traditional service intervals. True or not, that's a tall order to fill, with a substantial cost if it is untrue. Castrol makes the same claim of Transynd. Castrol also markets Dexron VI fluids, which make the same claim. Which is true? Which is not?

[cabletech]

As I said earlier, GM does recommend TES-295 trans fluid under certain conditions. The pic is from a 2013 diesel supplement. They must recognize the benefits or they wouldn't put it in the manual. Transynd is 100% synthetic and factory dex VI is at best semi-synthetic (from the factory). I have transynd in my 2010 and found the trans temps dropped by 15 to 20 deg during normal daily driving (empty truck).
You can't go wrong putting in the recommended trans fluid.
Sorry for the small pic. It's on page 11-12 of the manual.

Jay