Brakes on trailers query

[Dek Hawkins]

I have a 2500HD Duramax and I am wanting to haul a gooseneck Horse trailer.
I doe have the cable for the brakes although I have no idea how to use it.
Also I am wanting a Bumper pull, which has electric brakes but want to haul it with a 4X4. Is there an attachment I can get like the Chevy one that can be mounted in 4x4 to operate brakes. ???

I LIVE IN ENGLAND WHERE NO-ONE KNOWS MUCH ABOUT GOOSENECKS

[DmaxMaverick]

What year is your truck? The 1999 models and later are pre-wired for trailer lights and brakes, even if the trailer package wasn't optioned. If you have an OEM hitch and trailer light/brake receptacle, it is already wired and ready for use. If not, you'll have to install the trailer light/brake receptacle to the existing wire harness between the spare tire and bumper. An in-bed connector will have to be installed for 5th wheel or gooseneck connection (more on that as you need it).

The brake controller installations vary slightly with earlier models, while later models have a built-in option. Which "cable" do you have? If you have an earlier model, up to about 2011, and the cable you have is a square plug with a length of wires attached, it plugs into the under-dash junction box on the firewall behind/left of the (US steering) brake pedal. I don't know if they would have moved it or not for a UK conversion, but it would normally be above and forward of the left foot when seated in the left/front seat. The connector should only fit in one position in the junction box. The wire ends of the cable connect to an aftermarket installed trailer brake controller. These are mostly common, but can be unique, depending on the number of braking axles involved and other details.

Once installed correctly with the trailer brake controller working, you may also have to install a fuse in the under-hood power distribution fuse box at the left fender, for 12V power to the trailer (for power, lights, and service battery charging).

What "4x4" are you referring? The answer to that question is yes, but how to do it depends much on what vehicle it is.

[arveetek]

We need more information on your tow vehicles please.

What year Duramax?

What is the make, model, and year of the 4x4?

If the Duramax does not have a built-in brake controller on the dash, you will need to purchase an aftermarket brake controller in order to operate the electric brakes on the trailer. How you hook it up depends on the year of the truck. GM has used 4 different brake controller wiring configurations since 1999:

1999-2002 (plug under dash)
2003-2006 (plug under dash)
2007-2013 (wires dangling under steering column)
2014-current (plug under dash)

These are not exact year changes, due to model differences, 1500 vs. 2500/2500, etc., but it gives you an idea of how many different brake control wiring variations there are.

Casey

[convert2diesel]

We need more information on your tow vehicles please.

What year Duramax?

What is the make, model, and year of the 4x4?

If the Duramax does not have a built-in brake controller on the dash, you will need to purchase an aftermarket brake controller in order to operate the electric brakes on the trailer. How you hook it up depends on the year of the truck. GM has used 4 different brake controller wiring configurations since 1999:

1999-2002 (plug under dash)
2003-2006 (plug under dash)
2007-2013 (wires dangling under steering column)
2014-current (plug under dash)

These are not exact year changes, due to model differences, 1500 vs. 2500/2500, etc., but it gives you an idea of how many different brake control wiring variations there are.

Casey

Don't know about the 2014 and on, but if your truck is between 1999 and 2006, there were two configurations for the plug on aftermarket wiring harnesses. Typically they come wired for the 1999 - 2002. If your truck is 2003 - 2006, you will have to move one wire in the harness plug (truck side). Instructions are usually included with the harness.

Bill

[arveetek]

Don't know about the 2014 and on, but if your truck is between 1999 and 2006, there were two configurations for the plug on aftermarket wiring harnesses. Typically they come wired for the 1999 - 2002. If your truck is 2003 - 2006, you will have to move one wire in the harness plug (truck side). Instructions are usually included with the harness.

Bill

Yeah, for some odd reason, GM used the same physical plug from 1999 to 2006, but moved the wires around on the plug. We sell two different harnesses, though. One for 1999-02, and one for 03-06. That's easier than moving the wires around on the plug.

Casey

[Dek Hawkins]

Hi Guys, thanks for the replies, not been able to get logged in for a while.
My Chevy 2500 Duramax is 2002, and I have the lead in glove box to plug a jump lead on. I cannot find the plug near the Park Brake though ??
I also have a trailer package on the rear, one end of the lead has a round plug looking the same as that one.
It is hard for me, as most people in GB have never even seen a Gooseneck, so there is no-one to ask.
I am wanting to import the Bumber Pull trailers also, and because our 4x4s are much smaller over here, they will need an attachment to work like my lead already supplied. This could be ANY type of SUV - 4x4., as your trailers have electric magnetic brakes, which have to be amended to automatic over here with a Proportional Brake Controller.
US trailers are years ahead of ours, and it would be nice to see some here IF I can figure out the braking.
I will look again under the footwell, there IS a plug but not one that takes the lead.
Sorry to seem stupid on this, but its a different country and different methods.
Thanks everyone
Dek

[Dek Hawkins]

Forgot to mention, My Chevy came from Canada NEW in 2002, but it wired for AMBER indicators at rear. It is NOT converted for european market,it is still LHD.
Dek

[convert2diesel]

Dek:

The fuse block being referred to is under the dash, just left of the brake pedal. The manual calls it a "convenience" center (probably a cruel joke started by the manual author). The brake controller plugs into a square socket along the top of the fuse block. This block also contains such things as the signal flasher relay.

With the adapter cable in hand, it will be obvious what socket you have to use (on my 06 CrewCab, it is the second socket just right of the top left hand corner socket).

Hope this helps.

Bill

[arveetek]

I am wanting to import the Bumber Pull trailers also, and because our 4x4s are much smaller over here, they will need an attachment to work like my lead already supplied. This could be ANY type of SUV - 4x4., as your trailers have electric magnetic brakes, which have to be amended to automatic over here with a Proportional Brake Controller.

In that situation, the brake controller will have to be installed using the "hard-wired" version. There will be no plugs installed by the manufacturer of the 4x4 for a quick install of a brake controller.

Here is a how-to:

https://www.etrailer.com/faq-installation-of-brake-controller-from-scratch.aspx

Casey

[Dek Hawkins]

Wow ranks for the info guys, I will see how it works.

Dek

[Dek Hawkins]

Hi, progress so far.
Found the connector is the interior fuse centre.
My lead is a 5 wire and plug to be connected.I already have a trailer package as mentioned earlier on bumper.
When using the fifth wheel lead, how do I drive vehicle with the lead coming out of the fuse centre ? I may sen stupid asking, but have I actually got to put cable out of window, along truck to fasten onto cable from Gooseneck ?
This seems very awkward for driving.
The fact that no-one in GB has used one of these, so I have no expert advice on hand.
I have looked on tube but it is very confusing.

[DmaxMaverick]

The other end of the brake controller lead in the harness under the dash is already one of the poles in the trailer connector under the bumper. You don't need to run a wire out the window. You NEED a brake controller to connect to the harness that plugs into the box on the firewall. Electric/electronic/mechanical controller, any of the above, but something (the controller) must send voltage to the trailer connector, to actuate the trailer brakes.

[arveetek]

The wire harness you have is for plugging the brake controller into the truck. The truck then sends the brake signal to the gooseneck through the 7-way plug on the back of the truck.

Watch this for more information:

https://www.etrailer.com/tv-install-tekonsha-prodigy-p3-brake-controller-2002-chevrolet-silverado-90195.aspx

Casey

[Dek Hawkins]

Great, thanks,
It all seems to make sense now, and the Gooseneck cable plugs
into Bumper plug ?
We are all a bit stupid in GB, and miles behind when it comes to trailers.
Our laws state a Brake Controller has to be in trailer though, (a bit stupid)

I will probably be the first Gooseneck Hauler in GB.

Thanks Guys

[arveetek]

Yes, you can plug the gooseneck trailer into the plug on the bumper. The cord on the trailer should be long enough. You also have the option of installing another plug inside the truck bed so you don't have to drape the cord over the tailgate.

Casey

[a5150nut]

Great, thanks,
It all seems to make sense now, and the Gooseneck cable plugs
into Bumper plug ?
We are all a bit stupid in GB, and miles behind when it comes to trailers.
Our laws state a Brake Controller has to be in trailer though, (a bit stupid)

I will probably be the first Gooseneck Hauler in GB.

Thanks Guys

If your controller is in the trailer how do you apply it manually in a tuff situation and how do you adjust it to road/load conditions?

[DmaxMaverick]

Yes, you can plug the gooseneck trailer into the plug on the bumper. The cord on the trailer should be long enough. You also have the option of installing another plug inside the truck bed so you don't have to drape the cord over the tailgate.

Casey

This. The "traditional" location for an additional receptacle is between the fender and front of the bed, a few inches above the bed floor. Your trailer wiring harness may have leads in that area at the frame (depends on year model and factory options).

HOWEVER, I do not recommend this location. A better in-bed location is between the fender and tailgate, about 4-8 inches above the bed floor. While it is not functionally different, access is easier. It allows access from the tailgate area (where you will be standing during coupling activities), and you don't have to reach over the bed rail. It also allows for a longer reach if you have a need to leave it connected after decoupling and pulling out, such as a need for continued brake or power lead needs. It also doesn't interfere with bed space in front of the hitch.

[DmaxMaverick]

If your controller is in the trailer how do you apply it manually in a tuff situation and how do you adjust it to road/load conditions?

I didn't catch that. Perhaps it lost something in translation (English to english, you know). I think the problem is, what IS a "controller"? I believe what they mean is, you can't run a pull cable (or some mechanical means) for brake actuation, and the brake system needs to be able to actuate when disconnected from the truck. Most all US trailer brake systems allow for this, with a breakaway switch with cable connected to the truck, in case of unexpected decoupling (such as hitch failure). The trailer battery, if the switch is closed (truck and trailer separate, unexpectedly), will activate full brakes and hold them as long as the battery lasts, or switch is reset. This has nothing to actually do with normal proportional brake control while normal driving.

[arveetek]

If your controller is in the trailer how do you apply it manually in a tuff situation and how do you adjust it to road/load conditions?


Tekonsha / Prodigy makes a trailer-mounted brake controller. It uses a hand-held wireless remote for manual brake activation and brake adjustments:

http://www.tekonsha.com/products/brake-controllers/proportional-controllers/prodigy-rf/TzaIxkVx1cI5XOy!osRB508pViEKmVBf

It still requires a 7-way trailer receptacle on the tow-vehicle, though. Makes sense for a rental fleet or where multiple tow vehicles are used with the same trailer.

Casey

[DmaxMaverick]

Tekonsha / Prodigy makes a trailer-mounted brake controller. It uses a hand-held wireless remote for manual brake activation and brake adjustments:

http://www.tekonsha.com/products/brake-controllers/proportional-controllers/prodigy-rf/TzaIxkVx1cI5XOy!osRB508pViEKmVBf

It still requires a 7-way trailer receptacle on the tow-vehicle, though. Makes sense for a rental fleet or where multiple tow vehicles are used with the same trailer.

Casey

This looks innovative and intriguing. Definitely an advantage for a trailer rental service and the like. $300USD isn't bad for a good setup (with minimal/no installation required). It appears to be intended for permanent installation to a single trailer (the hand-held device is married to the controller), but it could be temporary-mounted to any multiple of trailers. The more I look at this, the more I like it. I'd like to find more feedback in regards to function and reliability, though (not much available).

[arveetek]

This looks innovative and intriguing. Definitely an advantage for a trailer rental service and the like. $300USD isn't bad for a good setup (with minimal/no installation required). It appears to be intended for permanent installation to a single trailer (the hand-held device is married to the controller), but it could be temporary-mounted to any multiple of trailers. The more I look at this, the more I like it. I'd like to find more feedback in regards to function and reliability, though (not much available).

It's been around for a few years now, but I haven't had much experience with it myself. I know it's a good product (essentially their Prodigy technology mounted on the frame of the trailer).

Casey

[a5150nut]

Learn something new almost every day.

[Dek Hawkins]

Well, it seems I have sparked a few ideas.
Our Road Transport Authority do not allow MANUAL operation of the controller,
even though it is a good idea. Big Brother in England do not like good ideas,
they constantly look for bad ideas that don't work, then spend millions of GBP's trying to correct them.
I am afraid this discussion is now far beyond me.

Thanks everyone for your help.

[DmaxMaverick]

Every brake controller I am aware of has a "manual" feature. Meaning, manual braking is available. BUT, manual braking is secondary to automatic. Brake controllers are not "manual" brake senders. They are fully automatic, but have a means to manually operate the brakes, if necessary. If the vehicle service brakes become unusable, for any reason, a means to manually operate the trailer brakes can be a life saving feature. I can't imagine any GB law would preclude a secondary means of safety, in addition to primary conventional means. But then, even some US laws leave me scratching my head from time to time.