Newbie With a 1983 G Series Van & 6.2

[Bigshankhank]

Howdy, trying to get an old van up and running. Never worked on a diesel before though I have been the family mechanic on everything else over the years. 61,500 miles on it.
When we first got it, the battery was completely flat. Decided on a lark to hook up the jumper cables and see what worked electrically. Glow plug light came on then deactivated after 20 seconds or so, the starter buzzed, lights came on, so everything seemed to be in good order. Put in a new battery last night and things were different. No more glow plug light, no more activity at the starter. There is a solenoid (I think) on the rear of the left cylinder head that is clicking/buzzing like there is a short. When it would click-buzz, the cabin lights would flicker, once the buzzing stopped the lights would come back up. Once I disconnected this object from the wiring harness the lights and stereo would hold steady, no more buzzing. I will post up a picture to this thing later this morning. In the meantime, does anyone have any thoughts as to what this might be? Or a troubleshooting guide to diagnose the ignition?
Thanks for the help.

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy back and welcome.
That van should have two batteries.
The second one is located under the drivers side by the frame rail. a REAL PITA to get at and service.
Because they are such a pain to get at, most people never do anything with it or even know it's there.
Very possible that that battery is toast and/or shorted and the cables are bad.
These diesels use a ALLOT of juice so two GOOD batteries are needed along with good connections and cables.
I would start with checking that other battery.

[Bigshankhank]

Howdy back and welcome.
That van should have two batteries.
The second one is located under the drivers side by the frame rail. a REAL PITA to get at and service.
Because they are such a pain to get at, most people never do anything with it or even know it's there.
Very possible that that battery is toast and/or shorted and the cables are bad.
These diesels use a ALLOT of juice so two GOOD batteries are needed along with good connections and cables.
I would start with checking that other battery.

Yep, I found the 2nd one, since this is a class B RV I had thought that that 2nd battery was the "house" battery. I was able to get it down ok, getting a new one back up in there I can imagine will be a heck of a forearm workout.

[Bigshankhank]

Here's the little bugger;

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/865A6771-E725-4280-B3CB-B98321D05B76_zps3zbne07m.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/D57992C5-A4E9-4E11-90CB-3E3B25FF417D_zpsxypdce5b.jpg

[DmaxMaverick]

Glow plug relay (solenoid). Low voltage will cause it to click/buzz, just like a starter solenoid. If it's clicking and buzzing, it'll probably be OK with the correct power to it.

[Bigshankhank]

Glow plug relay (solenoid). Low voltage will cause it to click/buzz, just like a starter solenoid. If it's clicking and buzzing, it'll probably be OK with the correct power to it.
Ah that is awesome news, thank you. I ordered the Dieselpages troubleshooting manual because lord knows this van, as well as me, will need all the help it can get.

[Dvldog8793]

FYI about the second battery.
Make sure it fits the snuggly in the compartment with NO wiggle room.
Also make sure the cable connectors do not contact the box in any way.
They have changed battery styles and sizes over the years and I found that with newer batteries in my van I had to add some material in the box to keep the battery and cables in order and not move around.
It is a MUCH easier job done with a floor lift rather than on your back....;)
Good luck!

[Bigshankhank]

Ah, a floor lift how nice would that be? Nope, everything on this rig will be me laying on my back I'm afraid. Luckily there is plenty of ground clearance. I have a H-frame motorcycle life that I think I can work up underneath to lift the tray into place, and the restraints are still intact so if the battery is the same size, I should be good to go. I checked and both batteries show the same date (2011) so they were replaced with modern ones at least once in its life.

[Bigshankhank]

Well with a pair of good batteries and 5 gallons of fresh diesel it fired right up! I bled a little fresh brake fluid into the lines and took it for a spin around the neighborhood. After a couple of laps and maybe 20-30 minutes idling, it cleared out the white smoke and settled in to a nice smooth idle. Pretty stoked about this RV project.
Voltage was reading 12.78 at idle, I know that's too low, easy answer is the alternator, any other common culprits for this?

[Dvldog8793]

check the voltage at just a touch over idle.
If it jumps up right away, if it were mine, I would leave it.
A new alt might not change that. A smaller alt pulley might help.

[Bigshankhank]

check the voltage at just a touch over idle.
If it jumps up right away, if it were mine, I would leave it.
A new alt might not change that. A smaller alt pulley might help.

Thanks, the voltage gauge on the dash rises while driving but it should still put out more voltage at idle. What confounds me is, at rest (non-running) the battery reads 12.4v across the terminals which should be enough to start it, but it just turns over very slowly and won't kick on. I'm thinking there's something else that's causing the voltage loss and drawing power. According to the manual I have, there is a ground strap between the left head and the frame that is a potential issue, and I also need to check out the isolator between the two batteries.
Oh yeah and you may already know this but this has a generator, not a proper alternator. According to this book GM didn't switch to an alternator until '86.

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
The regular vans (any GM that uses two battery system for JUST vehicle operation) do not have an isolator. Typically an isolator is only used when one of two batteries is used for a completely different purpose, like running your camper. The isolator allows the battery to be charged and used without discharging the other battery. For vehicle operation(not camper or other stuff), the two batteries should be hooked directly in parallel.

Grounds can always be an issue and should be checked. Most of time the smaller grounding straps are not going to effect the starter. Your main ground cables to the block or frame could. Bad grounding straps or wires might be the problem for your low voltage charging or voltage gauge reading. I would hook up a multi-meter direct to the batteries and see what is really happening with voltage.
If you KNOW the cables/connections are good.... it sounds like a weak starter to me. As I posted earlier, we just had a similar problem. New batteries, new cables and grounds, good charging, the starter was not that old. truck did not like to start and would require 10-15 seconds of turning over before it would light. The starter never failed, but to my ears, never really sounded fast enough. We replaced the starter and problem solved.

Having a battery voltage of 12.4, when not running, is an indicator of healthy battery cells. Measured under load when starting your voltage shouldn't drop much below 10.5 or so.
ALL my vehicles have alternators, I have not seen a generator(all alternators can technically be called a generator) on a standard vehicle for a long time. Maybe your truck is different due to it being an RV type. Not saying this is FACT just that nothing I own or have worked on(besides my tractor) has a bonified generator.
IIRC....the term "alternator" was a Chrysler term, GM had delcotron generators and ford had AC generators. All of them were the same deal, meaning what we currently call an alternator, an internally rectified DC generator vs a dynamic DC generator.
"Alternator" has become the "crescent wrench" for internally rectified DC generator systems in vehicles. It did take GM longer to switch to an internally regulated system vs an external voltage regulator.
Again this is just what I remember from basic vehicle electric classes, and my memory is real good just kinda short....

[AVM62]

Hi I'm just seeing this post. I too have a 1983 G van RV welcome to the club. I agree with what was said before. When you start it cold is it going into fast idle? I replaced my alternator and starter. Old starter wasn't spinning fast enough, I went to a auto electric shop and had them fit a alternator with more amperage, run larger wires from the alternator to the isolator and to the chassis. Also new ground wires. I run two chassis batteries and two house batteries. I had this work done about 10 years ago. My normal voltage running is 13.7 to 13.9 volts. I mostly use my RV as a cabin now. She can sit for months and still start right up, I love that about her.

[Bigshankhank]

Hi I'm just seeing this post. I too have a 1983 G van RV welcome to the club. I agree with what was said before. When you start it cold is it going into fast idle? I replaced my alternator and starter. Old starter wasn't spinning fast enough, I went to a auto electric shop and had them fit a alternator with more amperage, run larger wires from the alternator to the isolator and to the chassis. Also new ground wires. I run two chassis batteries and two house batteries. I had this work done about 10 years ago. My normal voltage running is 13.7 to 13.9 volts. I mostly use my RV as a cabin now. She can sit for months and still start right up, I love that about her.

Oh man you and I need to talk more, then. Yes, exactly as you described when it sits for a day or so, it'll start right up but will idle fast for a little while before settling down. Then the idle because a little erratic. However if I have driven it or allowed it to reach normal operating temps, once I shut it off it will not start. In that case, the starter drags like it is not getting enough voltage to spin the engine.
For now, we are only driving it to and from the storage yard as my HOA won't let me keep it at my house, so on the weekends my daughter is gutting the interior and searching for water leaks while I work on the chassis stuff like the brakes and suspension. Once its bare inside, we can re-seal the windows and redeck the floor then figure out the electrical and propane systems. We are going to add more house batteries with an inverter and solar controller and put panels on the roof as the original generator was gone when we got it.
Got any pictures of your rig?

[Bigshankhank]

Here's mine;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/55DC848F-3659-484E-8E3B-8AA0FA6244C1_zpsn8i0scdx.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/17506296_01X_zpsunopxvpa.jpg
The interior as it was;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/17506296_06X_zpsly7wo85c.jpg
The interior as it is now;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/D962DF49-434A-42CE-95E8-8042A16B4502_zpsko2hymnm.jpg
The forum-relevant engine picture;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/17506296_07X_zpsaogtpa2z.jpg

[Bigshankhank]

Hmmm, replace?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/P1050568_zpscp5zvyw1.jpg

YES
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/P1050569_zpsta22ur0x.jpg

This seems like a pretty straightforward thing to do, except that in the process of removing the old master cylinder, the steel brake line to the proportioning valve revealed its degredation due to rust and came apart. Due to the tight confines of the valve location preventing me from simply removing the damaged line, I had to remove the entire valve, remove the damaged lines (two of them are in bad enough shape to warrant replacement), reinstall the valve and good lines, and run out to get the necessary replacement parts and tools.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/P1050572_zpsljrssvih.jpg

We also have new pads & shoes, once these new parts are installed and new fluid flushed throughout I will assess the brakes and decide if the calipers needs replacement. It brakes fairly well, we shall see.

Also, and this is a strange one, but while working beneath the engine compartment, the end of my wrench knocked loose this little gem
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/P1050573_zpsxaskhwzq.jpg
I honestly have no idea where it came from, there is no empty housing from which this would have fallen, certainly nothing which appears to be missing a tiny little motor/coil. It was literally just sitting loose on part of the frame. Any ideas?

Lastly, I am chasing a longstanding lighting problem. The right taillight works on both the low and high wattage functions (running & brake/signal lights), however the left light only works on the low wattage circuit. Swapping the known good bulbs from the right side to the left does not change anything, in fact ALL six taillight bulbs work when tested on the right side. Current focus is getting this vehicle safe, so these lights are high on the priority list.

Wait, forgot something else. There was a pair of old fog lights a PO had mounted below the front fender and chickensh!t wired into the harness (you can see the white wire to them taped to the front-most metal brake line in the master cylinder picture). One had been torn off leaving just a mounting bracket when we got the rig, and the other was smashed housing with no lense. They just irritated me leaving the remnants there, so while below I cut them loose from the harness and removed the brackets and light. That's when I realized they were wired in to the secondary fuel pump (the one beneath the engine). So I had to reconnect that little necessity.

[Bigshankhank]

We also went ahead and replaced both engine batteries as they had both gone completely flat after sitting for about six weeks. While the hood was open we rebuilt the alternator, now it idles at 13.6-13.8v. We did this work before Thanksgiving, and hadn't been back it until this afternoon and it cranked up in a hurry. Well worth the effort.

[DmaxMaverick]

Windshield washer pump, most of it. It probably disintegrated and fell apart during a prior replacement. They'll do that.

Tail lamp issues can be a real bear. In my experience, the most likely suspect, if all the grounds check out, is the crab assy (signal switch) under the steering wheel. If that's the case, it's also a good time to replace the upper column shaft bearings, horn contacts, and a good cleaning of the ignition cylinder. If it has tilt, it can be a bit of a hassle getting it back together, mostly the steering lock ring retainer clip. There's a tool for that, but I've managed without.

[Bigshankhank]

Windshield washer pump, most of it. It probably disintegrated and fell apart during a prior replacement. They'll do that.

Tail lamp issues can be a real bear. In my experience, the most likely suspect, if all the grounds check out, is the crab assy (signal switch) under the steering wheel. If that's the case, it's also a good time to replace the upper column shaft bearings, horn contacts, and a good cleaning of the ignition cylinder. If it has tilt, it can be a bit of a hassle getting it back together, mostly the steering lock ring retainer clip. There's a tool for that, but I've managed without.

Never even thought about the washer pump, I'll give it another look, thank you.
Considering the right taillamps work both low and high wattage, I think it's just a wiring problem on the left side.

[DmaxMaverick]

Never even thought about the washer pump, I'll give it another look, thank you.
Considering the right taillamps work both low and high wattage, I think it's just a wiring problem on the left side.

Perhaps.

All of the left/right rear lighting (except for markers), and the hazards, run through the crab. It could be a wiring issue, but if you are having an issue with more than one run on the same side, the usual suspect is the crab. The assy is plastic, gets brittle over time, and just breaks. Some will fail at the contacts if usage is high (too many drivers never use theirs). If the detents are "soft", it's on the way out or already gone. They should be "crisp" and defined. If it's original, it would be at the top of my list, even if you have another problem elsewhere.

[Bigshankhank]

Any chance you could get me a picture of this crab, I am not familiar with it and would like to know what I am going to be looking for.

[DmaxMaverick]

Try this:

https://www.google.com/search?q=1983+chevy+van+signal+switch+picture&biw=1598&bih=821&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjlseK55Y3RAhVT1GMKHe80BXgQsAQIGg

[Bigshankhank]

Thank you, I located and visually checked mine, looks like it's in good shape (nothing melted or decayed)
Went ahead and bled all four corners and the fittings at the master, topped up the fluids and went for a test drive. Night and freaking day difference. Hell even the brake warning light on the dash is gone!

Next problem, while driving around the neighborhood the engine would stall upon letting off the throttle. It wasn't a long enough drive to warm the engine up completely. Also, the voltmeter in the dash is indicating that while running its just within the red, at idle (when it wouldn't stall) its indicating just over 1/2 on the gauge and I haven't hooked a proper multi-meter to get the actual reading. Any thoughts?

[DmaxMaverick]

Low voltage can cause the ESS (Engine Stop Solenoid / Fuel shutoff, pink wire at the IP) to stop the fuel. Bad/failing batteries can allow the voltage to dip low enough at idle, even if the alternator is doing its job. Poor grounds, connections, or a failing ign. switch can do the same.

[Bigshankhank]

Since I don't have the RV at home, I am believing that this has three belts (alternator, power steering and AC comp), is that correct? I know it is not a serpentine.
Any recommendations on belts?

[Bigshankhank]

Whelp, went ahead and changed out the belts.

What we had intended, what we bought parts for, was to change the rear brake shoes, hardware and cylinders. Till I got the rear wheels off and realized just what it will take to pull the rear drums. Never worked on a dually axle, so the belts was kind of a consolation prize to do something productive.

[Bigshankhank]

So despite what I've read both here and other places online, including the troubleshooting manual I bought here, the secondary filter on my 83 G30 van is a square Stanadyne filter, and not a spin-on. The primary is a spin-on (NAPA 6232) but the one on my RV did not have a bleed nipple on it. PO used the wrong filter, go figure.
Sadly changing these did not fix my rough running/stalling/billowing white smoke problem. Checking for air is next, I am seeing a lot of rubber fuel line replacement in my future as most of what I saw underneath the chassis and in the engine bay was a mess.

[Bigshankhank]

Ok, help needed.
Replaced rubber fuel lines below the chassis, as well as both filters. Cracked the injectors loose and spun the engine until diesel wept from all eight, then retightened and reconnected the glow connectors. Stumbled for a moment then started right up and settled in to a vastly smoother idle. Idled for 5-7 minutes then stalled. Started right back up, stalls within 30 seconds, lots of white smoke. Over and over, initially I could rev the engine and keep it running longer, but eventually pressing the accelerator just killed the engine. My simple brain tells me the fuel pump is failing to keep pressure. I have the diesel manual from the forum bookstore, and I admit I am uncertain what each pump does (main and lift pump), nor where to locate them. There is a small electric inline pump below the engine on the passenger side, would this be the lift pump, or perhaps did a PO install this (the wiring for it is kinda sloppy)?
Thanks for your help.

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy

Lift pump pulls fuel from your tank and "lifts" it to the IP=injector pump(main).
The IP is located in the intake valley and would be where all your lines come from. If this van has the original pump and injectors then it might be due for a rebuild of both. I have never had a 6.2 fail likes your does because of worn pump or injectors. Performance normally gets so bad that they get rebuilt before they completely fail. A common issue is not starting hot or hard starting all the time. Sounds like yours wants to start and then dies.
My 1984 van only has the square filter on the back of the engine. I would suspect that if you have another type of round filter that it was an after thought by someone. I don't think they ever came with both a square filter and a round filter.
I think the 6.2s that came with two spin on filters had one located in the intake valley rear and one on the fender wall. Not sure how that would locate on your RV.
Your van SHOULD have a mechanical lift pump that runs and looks just like the fuel pump on older gas job GM motors: mounted on the front of the engine block low on the passenger side. If there is an electric inline pump it was added either as way of priming the system for any number of reasons or as a "simpler" fix to the mechanical lift pump failing. Some people put them inline with the mechanical pump. Unless you have an oil pressure shut off for the electric pump, it is a bad idea.
IMHO, the lighting problem sounds like a ground or fixture problem (if the crab is good). Could possibly be the wiring from the crab to the flat connector under the column. maybe something is shorted in there from a PO doing some work in the column.
Hope this helps!
Good luck.
Sounds like your fuel system has been extensively "modified" If it was mine I would start by simplifying that. Get back to one good filter(square) and one good mechanical pump with unspliced lines.
As to the voltage issue, I would first put a meter on it before you get to concerned. The factory gauges are not the best.

[Bigshankhank]

Howdy

Lift pump pulls fuel from your tank and "lifts" it to the IP=injector pump(main).
The IP is located in the intake valley and would be where all your lines come from. If this van has the original pump and injectors then it might be due for a rebuild of both. I have never had a 6.2 fail likes your does because of worn pump or injectors. Performance normally gets so bad that they get rebuilt before they completely fail. A common issue is not starting hot or hard starting all the time. Sounds like yours wants to start and then dies.
My 1984 van only has the square filter on the back of the engine. I would suspect that if you have another type of round filter that it was an after thought by someone. I don't think they ever came with both a square filter and a round filter.
I think the 6.2s that came with two spin on filters had one located in the intake valley rear and one on the fender wall. Not sure how that would locate on your RV.
Your van SHOULD have a mechanical lift pump that runs and looks just like the fuel pump on older gas job GM motors: mounted on the front of the engine block low on the passenger side. If there is an electric inline pump it was added either as way of priming the system for any number of reasons or as a "simpler" fix to the mechanical lift pump failing. Some people put them inline with the mechanical pump. Unless you have an oil pressure shut off for the electric pump, it is a bad idea.
IMHO, the lighting problem sounds like a ground or fixture problem (if the crab is good). Could possibly be the wiring from the crab to the flat connector under the column. maybe something is shorted in there from a PO doing some work in the column.
Hope this helps!
Good luck.
Sounds like your fuel system has been extensively "modified" If it was mine I would start by simplifying that. Get back to one good filter(square) and one good mechanical pump with unspliced lines.
As to the voltage issue, I would first put a meter on it before you get to concerned. The factory gauges are not the best.

Excellent info, thank you for your response.
Since this is an RV assembled on a G30 chassis by a coachbuilder, I assume that a lot of what I am seeing is atypical from normal G-series vans and other Chevy trucks of the era, so some of this will be muddling along trying to piece together where things are. From what I can tell, the spin-on primary filter assembly is original, as the rubber lines to and from the filter bracket were embedded within the spray foam insulation beneath the floor deck. Likewise the square filter behind the intake in the valley, it looks like this was original equipment. Who knows, maybe the builder bought a batch of '83 & '84 engines and cobbled things together to make them all the same. Regardless, from what I have read the dual filter setup is better than the single Stanadyne 80 filter so I will likely keep it as is unless I want to swap in a Racor or something. I am happy to take some pictures, but if this square secondary filter was an adaptation, it was done a long time ago based on the condition of the hard & rubber lines to it.

Now, the electric pump beneath the engine appears much newer than anything else on this RV, so that leads me to believe that yes, someone was having fueling problems and added it in to supplement the OEM lift pump. In an effort to "get back to the beginning", it makes sense to me to take this aftermarket pump out, and test the mechanical lift pump and IP to determine if they require a rebuild/replace then see where that leaves me. the aftermarket one is fed through a 30a relay just above the brake booster, and the wiring is just kind hanging around the engine bay. If I add it back into the fuel circuit, I would clean up the installation regardless.
One other thing with fueling, once we got this thing running a few months ago, since the fuel gauge wasn't responding I decided to add 10 gallons if fresh diesel just to make sure we wouldn't run dry somewhere, but we only got maybe 6-7 gallons before the tank was full, meaning there was somewhere between 20-25 gallons of who-knows-how-old fuel in the tank when we got it. And now we have a full tank to drop and drain. :( I can only imagine what the age and condition of this fuel is doing to the system.

As for the lighting, my daughter's boyfriend and I worked on this the other day, and it appears that a ground has gone bad. There is quite a bit of rust on the rear end of the chassis and several loose wires back there; by patching an extra ground at the flat plug behind the driver's seat we were able to light up the high wattage side of the taillights.

To the voltage question, once I got the belts tightened correctly (man that is tighter than I am used to) the dash voltage gauge is reading just above midway, so that is right where I want it.

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
Possible that you have a serious bad fuel issue and that would explain allot of your symptoms. . I would first try a separate fuel tank, maybe a boat tank or some other source, and see if that fixes everything. Then go to the remove the tank option.

[Bigshankhank]

Howdy
Possible that you have a serious bad fuel issue and that would explain allot of your symptoms. . I would first try a separate fuel tank, maybe a boat tank or some other source, and see if that fixes everything. Then go to the remove the tank option.

As it so happens there is a small boat tank inside, I think the PO had it to run the generator as the original generator tank had rusted through. Unfortunately he took the genset with him when he sold it, but hey, free gas tank.
I will give that a try, but regardless I think we will need to drop the main tank to rehab the sending unit (the dash fuel gauge reads beyond full all the time).

[Dvldog8793]

If you do have scum in your tank it is likely that you will need to replace the filters again.

[Bigshankhank]

If you do have scum in your tank it is likely that you will need to replace the filters again.

Yeah, this had occurred to me. Filters are cheap, relatively speaking.

[Bigshankhank]

This is my current lift pump configuration (sorry for the crappy picture). So the OEM pump was disconnected and an inline electric pump has been added. A replacement mechanical pump is $15 at Rockauto, considering my potential fueling problems is there any reason I shouldn't just go back to the OEM setup? I figure GM engineer's designed it with the mechanical pump for a reason, who am I to contradict them?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/Chevy%20Fuel%20Pump_zpsvxoukm2x.jpg

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
IMHO- The mechanical pump is the best route for this application.
It is just-as if not more reliable than the electric. IF you use the electric you need to have a safety system built in so that when the engine shuts down(other than the key) it shuts off the fuel. If not, then in a possible accident or other situation, it will be draining your fuel tank all over the place.
Get good mechanical pump, clean the tank(replace???) verify fuel lines, replace filters again and the see what happens.
Ditch the electric.
The only benefits to the electric pump are when you replace the filters it is easier to prime the system and if you have a weak injection pump the electric lift pump can help with starting. Neither of these benefits are something that is worth the hassle and dangers of a properly installed electric pump SYSTEM....imho.
FYI- If you have nasty fuel in the tank, its very possible that it sat in the injection pump as well and could have some issues.

[Bigshankhank]

Cool, thanks. I figured it was cheap insurance to go back to the factory setup.

[Bigshankhank]

Lift pump replacement day. The PO (one of them) had installed this electric pump inline and left the OEM one just hanging there, useless and neglected. The wiring to it was pretty sloppy. Maybe this is a part of my stalling problems, better to go back to the engineered condition and start from there.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/Chevy%20Fuel%20Pump_zpsvxoukm2x.jpg

New pump vs old one.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/image_zpscmxk6xvb.jpeg

Clean gasket surfaces and new handmade bracket gasket (the pump came with the pump gasket, but not one for the bracket).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/image_zpsw3yv7srl.jpeg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/image_zpsnqckcsgg.jpeg
I know what you are thinking, where is the rod? Rest assured it went back in, from reading here and in the book I slopped a bunch of grease on it and it held itself deep into its pocket well enough to get the pump lever underneath it when I installed it.

Replaced the rubber inlet hose with new. Since the outlet pipe was connected to the inline pump, the PO had cut off the flare to make the rubber hose connection. So, I had to flare the end with the line in place, no small task. My forearms are killing me but I got it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/image_zpsavo8mltl.jpeg

Fully installed, now I get to bleed air out of the injectors again, but I needed a break to eat something.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/image_zpsvv9sdfcq.jpeg

[Bigshankhank]

Annnnd the batteries were too dead to crank the engine enough to bleed air through the injectors. Back on the charger it goes...:mad:

[Bigshankhank]

Sombitch, now the glow plugs aren't lighting up. My daughter's boyfriend was swapping burned out fuses the other day, I fear that he took the glow plug fuse out.

[Bigshankhank]

Glow plug diagnosis help.
Current symptom; when I turn the key to the run position, the dash glow plug light does NOT illuminate, nor does the solenoid on the back of the driver's side head click. Step one in everything I've read is to start with the fuse, but I cannot locate it. Any guidance on where I will find it? My fuse panel beneath the dash is old and I cannot make out what should be what down there. However I am not seeing any 20a fuses which are burned-out.
Thanks

[Bigshankhank]

While searching for the glow plug fuse, I went ahead and followed the wiring and controller testing procedure and come to find out that the controller is showing too much resistance on the 2 - 3 pin test (reading 1.8ohms, spec is .4 - .7ohm). So looks like the controller needs to go.

[Dvldog8793]

Just fyi, Ive been running my blazer for 3 years without a controller. I use a momentary button to run the relay when I need it. This engine is very strong and will start with no glow time about 50% of the time in moderate temps.

Also might want to ohm out the GPs while your in there.

[Bigshankhank]

Given that this is my daughters vehicle, I am trying to make its operation as simple as possible. Teaching her about how glow plugs work has been enough of an effort, teaching her now that she needs to learn to use a new starting technique (momentary switch) is just going to confuse/frustrate her. So as with the OEM lift pump, I am going back to as much of the original design as possible and upgrading only those things where the operational impact is minimal.

[Bigshankhank]

I do appreciate the suggestion, but there will come a time where she will need to manage this thing herself, and I don't want to spend my days explaining to her over the phone from wherever she is broken down how we kajiggerred her TPS so she needs to explain it to the tow truck that picks her up. I've got that kind of confidence in my knowledge, but if I'm not around she needs the machine to be as close to the original textbook as possible. I am trying to teach her about mechanics, but she really has no interest and just needs this thing to work.

[Dvldog8793]

There were two different glow plug controllers. if you look in the books or do a search you will find the change over year. the newer style is the one to go with. I think the year was 1986 that the newer style started.
I agree 100% in the KISS theory....

[Bigshankhank]

I thought the newer controller required relocating the controller? Seems like a lot of the advice is written for suburbans & C-series trucks as opposed to the skeevy pedo-van. :D

Any recommendation on which manufacturer to go with or stay away from? I've chased hell on O2 sensors buying cheap ones (niekon or some such) as opposed to proper Delco, so I am willing to pay a little more for a better quality unit.

[DmaxMaverick]

Yes, Delco is preferred. Rather than replacing what was original, do yourself a favor and upgrade to the 1985+ controller and inhibit switch (temp sender). More simple and more reliable. It's also a good idea to install a manual override for either system, for when it doesn't want to play nice. It's as simple as adding a momentary switch/button (in the dash) to apply 12V to the small pole on the relay.

[Bigshankhank]

Well I am trying to get a hold of Kennedy Diesel to get some info on the controller upgrade kit they sell. Hopefully I can release an order today or tomorrow, I really want to get this thing running again. :(

[Bigshankhank]

Whelp, Kennedy has a new controller upgrade kit heading my way. Looking forward to breaking out the soldering gun and making this baby rattle again. At least, assuming the lift pump is working. And my fuel tank isn't completely contaminated. And my injector pump isn't shot. Baby steps...

[Dvldog8793]

I would make sure that you have a clean known fuel source.

[Bigshankhank]

I would make sure that you have a clean known fuel source.

Yeah, I've got a spare boat tank and as much as I don't want to risk air getting in to the system and have to bleed the injectors again, I guess I need to remove the rubber feed line from the lift pump and drop it in to that tank filled with some new diesel.
Take it from me, while in a truck or suburban there might be easy access to the injectors and glow plugs, in the van that doghouse tunnel makes air bleeding a royal PITA.

[Bigshankhank]

So I am installing the upgraded glow plug controller from Kennedy and came across a wiring anomaly. The switched power wire to pin #3 on the original controller is a very pale blue, to the point that I mistook it for light green. Anyway, that wire goes to the old relay (which I am removing) into a two prong plug, the other wire in that plug is pink. With the OEM relay removed, I checked that pink wire and it has battery voltage when the key is in the run position. The blue wire is dead. According to the instructions I received from John Kennedy, I need to tap in to that blue wire on pin #3 to a given terminal on the new relay/controller, but if I am not mistaken that will do nothing. I should connect that pink wire, is that right? This sounds obvious in my head, but I want to double check.

Also, I keep putting off removing the rubber line to the lift pump and running a new line to a spare fuel tank with new fresh diesel, mainly because I don't want to bleed air from the injectors again. But from reading, will I actually have to bleed air that way? I thought you only had to bleed the injectors if you got air between the lift and injection pumps (like when you replace the secondary fuel filter)? Its not the end of the world to bleed them, but it is a royal PITA in a van.

Thanks for your responses.

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
In the 6.2/6.5 diesels that I have owned over the years and working on them in the USMC....I have never cracked a line to bleed air. Maybe I'm lucky....:rolleyes:
I have always just cranked to bleed air from the system through the injectors. Most of the time it takes about two cycles of 15-20 seconds and they are running.
Also I have never had the misfortune of have an un known air leak in the system.
I don't think you'll have to injector bleed the system. pinch the hose with a visegrip and take it out.
good luck...

[DmaxMaverick]

Check with Kennedy for wiring questions on the controller, if it isn't OEM. If the controller is a simple 1985+, it should have Batt+ to one large pole, the other large pole goes to the GP's or GP harness, and Ign+ goes to the small "S" pole (just like on a starter solenoid). If it has a 4th pole, that is for the inhibit switch (coolant temp switch). Either way, confirm what you have with Kennedy.

You should never have to bleed the injectors if there is no air between the IP and injectors. Prevent this by removing the pink/power/front wire from the IP while messing with the fuel supply. Don't plug it back in until the rest of the system is bled. If you this, only minimal air will have to pass (most out the return), which will be negligible. The short route between the final filter and IP is only a small amount, but shouldn't have air in it unless you pushed air to the IP from the filter.

[Bigshankhank]

Check with Kennedy for wiring questions on the controller, if it isn't OEM. If the controller is a simple 1985+, it should have Batt+ to one large pole, the other large pole goes to the GP's or GP harness, and Ign+ goes to the small "S" pole (just like on a starter solenoid). If it has a 4th pole, that is for the inhibit switch (coolant temp switch). Either way, confirm what you have with Kennedy.

You should never have to bleed the injectors if there is no air between the IP and injectors. Prevent this by removing the pink/power/front wire from the IP while messing with the fuel supply. Don't plug it back in until the rest of the system is bled. If you this, only minimal air will have to pass (most out the return), which will be negligible. The short route between the final filter and IP is only a small amount, but shouldn't have air in it unless you pushed air to the IP from the filter.

I am waiting to hear back from Kennedy re: the wiring questions.

Thanks for confirming my thoughts on the air bleed. I initially replaced both filters and had to bleed the air at the injectors due to the secondary filter downstream of the IP, then when I replaced the lift pump along with all of the rubber fuel lines from the lift pump back to the tank, I went ahead and bled them again figuring that with the line between the lift and IP being open air would've gotten back in. If I don't have to do it again, that would be awesome. Time will tell.

Thank you again.

[DmaxMaverick]

There is no filter downstream of the injection pump. As long as you don't PUSH air to the IP, there should be no air at the IP. All air bleeding should be done, finally, at the final filter immediately before the IP. Opening any of the filters to air will not allow air into the IP (or the injector lines or injectors. Disconnecting the IP inlet solenoid (ESS) connector prevents any air from entering the IP, as long as it is not reconnected (and cranked) before all the air is bled and the system is closed.

[Bigshankhank]

I got ya, sorry for my confusion, I don't think it clicked that the secondary filter is fed directly off of the lift pump.

Anyway, back to the controller upgrade. There is an article in volume I of the diesel book on this site which details how to accomplish this upgrade. Speaking with John K earlier it sounds like this would give me a clear shot at completing this upgrade, would anyone be willing to shoot me a copy of it? I am not opposed to buying it, and if that is the case then so be it, but since I only need the one article that would be very helpful. I bought the troubleshooting manual from the library, but it only describes how to diagnose/repair the OEM systems, not cross over between the two.

Thanks.

[DmaxMaverick]

I recommend buying the TDP books relevant to your rig. The systems you've already encountered will be covered in detail, including the "crossovers", which should simplify the process. If you intend to continue DIY, it will also cover issues you will encounter later. If you are a TDP subscribing member, many of the past articles are available in the Member's areas of TDP (not the forums). Some may be made available upon request.

[Bigshankhank]

Looks like I figured it out, using the wiring diagram for both controllers. The cycle time is really short, and I guess I am still chasing a fuel issue from this point because it still won't start.

[Bigshankhank]

Fuel system checks out, gotta be the glow plugs not having enough time to heat up with the new controller. So close!

[Bigshankhank]

New GPs should be here Thursday, I know what I am doing this weekend.:D

[Dvldog8793]

Can you time the controller and tell us how long its running?
Also if you want to try something....Take a can of air duster and hold it upside down and spray the base of the controller. This should fool it into thinking that it is about -10 out and would make sure that the controller is functioning.
What glow plugs did you get?

[Bigshankhank]

Can you time the controller and tell us how long its running?
Also if you want to try something....Take a can of air duster and hold it upside down and spray the base of the controller. This should fool it into thinking that it is about -10 out and would make sure that the controller is functioning.
What glow plugs did you get?

When I got it hooked up, it seemed like a cycle time of less than 8 seconds, followed by a 10 second break then another 2-3 second heat cycle. I will time it correctly next time I am in the cab. Interesting idea about chilling the controller.
I got the quick heat plugs from Kennedy.com.

[DmaxMaverick]

When I got it hooked up, it seemed like a cycle time of less than 8 seconds, followed by a 10 second break then another 2-3 second heat cycle. I will time it correctly next time I am in the cab. Interesting idea about chilling the controller.
I got the quick heat plugs from Kennedy.com.

The cycle timing sounds normal. It was originally designed for 6V fast glow plugs, such as the AC9G and AC11G. This can present a problem with later plugs, such as the AC60G, which is a much more durable plug, but is much slower and may require longer glow cycles. Many claim they are fine in their rig with original timing, but I think they simply have an easier starting engine, or are using them in a favorable environment. Voltage and heat are what they are. The Kennedy QH plugs you bought should work very well (I use them). They are very fast and very hot, similar to the original 9G plugs, without the concern of premature burn-out and swelling.

[Bigshankhank]

I sprayed PB Blaster on them last night in preparation for the new plugs arriving for this weekend. Do I need to coat the new threads in copper anti-seize? Pretty typical for spark plugs on a petro engine.

[DmaxMaverick]

Definitely use anti-seize on the GP threads. Be sure to clean up the PB Blaster and anything else remaining once the old plugs are out. Brake cleaner works well (let it dry thoroughly).

[Bigshankhank]

Definitely use anti-seize on the GP threads. Be sure to clean up the PB Blaster and anything else remaining once the old plugs are out. Brake cleaner works well (let it dry thoroughly).

Thanks, just wanted to make sure.

[Dvldog8793]

When you put in the glow plugs make sure the connectors are tight and not heat damaged, they should be a high temp type of connector and should fit tight. Just another common problem, especially if someone has been re-working the electrical.

[DmaxMaverick]

When you put in the glow plugs make sure the connectors are tight and not heat damaged, they should be a high temp type of connector and should fit tight. Just another common problem, especially if someone has been re-working the electrical.

Good point. If they've been replaced with common plastic covered spade connectors, they don't last long. I've used them, but plan on replacing them much more often. They are made of thinner/weaker metal and the contact becomes questionable after the many heat cycles. Heavy duty silicone-covered connectors are as good as ceramic or high-temp plastic (Bako-lite, IIRC).

[Bigshankhank]

Better connectors, I guess that's next. The new GPs showed up and lo and behold all the original 9G plugs came right out, no breakage. Once everything was back in and snug I tried again to start it to no avail. I got a little sputter on the first attempt to start, but after that each interval with the starter it just spun the engine till the battery weakened a bit and I gave it a rest. The connectors are probably the originals, and they slip on and off fairly easily, so I really hope that is it. Never really noticed ceramic spade connectors at Autozone or Napa, where's a good place to get them? Going through the book I feel like I have checked everything, pumps, controller and relay and now plugs. What else am I missing? At 62k miles I hope like hell it is not a compression issue because we don't have enough enough money in this thing to justify an engine rebuild.

[Dvldog8793]

Maybe should have said this BEFORE you got the new GPs. One way to verify that you are getting fuel to the cylinders is to turn it over with the glow plugs out and verify fuel mist from each cylinder.
These engines need three things to run: compression, fuel and air. I would just start to verify those. Your glow circuit sounds good and is only involved in starting. Another way to verify the glow circuit is with a clamp-on amperage meter on the main feed wire.

I DO NOT like it, but it is possible to get it running with ether. I have done it with my 1986, it has a manual glow plug system. If you decide to try to get it started with ether....remove all power from the glow plugs and use a 50% ether. Personally I would try to verify that you are getting fuel to the cylinder before you try the ether.

I have never seen the ceramic connectors over the counter. You should be able to find a good quality high temp/heavy duty female connector at a REAL parts store. When I replace them I solder them on with a high temp solder.

Are you getting smoke out the tail pipe when it turns over?

[Bigshankhank]

I am getting fuel from the injectors when I loosen them and turn the engine over, I will pull a couple of the plugs and see if I get a proper mist.

I tried ether last week prior to replacing the GPs, though I did not disconnect them. It started momentarily but made a terrible rattle so I did not continue using it.

Haven't looked at the tailpipe when trying to start, I'll turn around and look next time,

Thanks.

[Bigshankhank]

FYI the GP controller bracket I had to fabricate.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/Relay%20Bracket_zpsbnckfmz3.jpg

Old glow plugs
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/IMG_1584_zpsxkgqnuv7.jpg

Old vs new plugs
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/IMG_1583_zpsm2cgofzf.jpg

[Dvldog8793]

After cranking for 10-15 seconds you should see smoke from the tail pipe.
Make sure your batteries get charged up good every night before you start trouble shooting.
Never use ether without disconnecting the glow circuit.

[Bigshankhank]

After cranking for 10-15 seconds you should see smoke from the tail pipe.
Make sure your batteries get charged up good every night before you start trouble shooting.
Never use ether without disconnecting the glow circuit.

If there is a lack of smoke, does that tell me I am not getting fuel? If not fuel, what is it telling me?

Yeah, I've kept them on a trickle charger for the past few weeks while I've been trying to get it running again.

Good to know now about the ether, but I can't undo whatever I've done to it by this point. What does the ether do to the plugs, if I may ask?

[DmaxMaverick]

If you are seeing fuel with the injector lines loose, but not seeing fuel spray with them tight (glow plugs removed), then the IP is questionable. It may be able to push fuel at low/no pressure, but unable to pop the injectors. The injectors determine the fuel pressure (the pressure they pop), but the IP must be able to produce that pressure. Air could also be an issue. Excessive air in the system, and continued introduction of air, can prevent the injectors from popping, due to the air cushion in the lines. If the injectors can't pop, they can't move fuel or air through the lines.

Ether and glow plugs don't mix. If the GP's are hot, the ether will ignite as soon as it is exposed to the GP. This can cause engine damage, as well as ignite back through the intake. I've seen air cleaners blown completely apart (too much ether probably had something to do with that). The heat of Diesel engine compression is enough to ignite the ether, so it will fire (that cycle) without the GP's. As said above, it is NOT recommended, under any circumstance if it can be avoided. It should ONLY be considered an emergency option. Always disconnect/disable the GP's before using it. Ether should never be used as a diagnostic tool. If you have a fuel delivery problem, work on that. Ether won't fix anything.

[Bigshankhank]

If you are seeing fuel with the injector lines loose, but not seeing fuel spray with them tight (glow plugs removed), then the IP is questionable. It may be able to push fuel at low/no pressure, but unable to pop the injectors. The injectors determine the fuel pressure (the pressure they pop), but the IP must be able to produce that pressure. Air could also be an issue. Excessive air in the system, and continued introduction of air, can prevent the injectors from popping, due to the air cushion in the lines. If the injectors can't pop, they can't move fuel or air through the lines.

Ether and glow plugs don't mix. If the GP's are hot, the ether will ignite as soon as it is exposed to the GP. This can cause engine damage, as well as ignite back through the intake. I've seen air cleaners blown completely apart (too much ether probably had something to do with that). The heat of Diesel engine compression is enough to ignite the ether, so it will fire (that cycle) without the GP's. As said above, it is NOT recommended, under any circumstance if it can be avoided. It should ONLY be considered an emergency option. Always disconnect/disable the GP's before using it. Ether should never be used as a diagnostic tool. If you have a fuel delivery problem, work on that. Ether won't fix anything.

All good info, thank you.
According to the Diesel Maintenance book from the library here, testing the IP involves disconnecting the pink wire from the iggy relay and listening to hear the relay click. Mine clicks, repeatedly as I checked it several times. Just because the relay clicks though, does that mean it is pushing enough fuel at the right pressure? I guess I will test for spray this evening. Can they be rebuilt? Seems like when I checked Rockauto a replacement pump was on the order of $700.
When I replaced all the rubber lines between my tank and lift pump I did my best to crank down on the new worm drive clamps (I replaced the old clamps at the same time), so unless it has an air leak between the lift and IP which just manifested itself I don't think I have an air leak. I have not pressure tested the tank, that can go on the list eventually.

[DmaxMaverick]

If your mechanical lift pump works (it should, it's new, right?), a leak between the LP and IP will be an external fuel leak, not an air intrusion leak. Conduct a fuel mist test (GP's removed, all injector lines tight). If all open cylinders don't mist fuel, install a length of clear tubing at the IP return outlet, loop it, and crank the engine. Any air going through the pump will absolutely collect in the loop. If you get air in the loop (after it's purged itself), you have a leak between the tank and lift pump. Pressurizing the fuel tank can be helpful finding it (no more than 5 PSI or so on an old tank).

Check Kennedy's site, and/or a local Stanadyne certified shop, IF it comes to the need of a replacement pump, costs should be similar, so also consider the customer service in the price. Run all the tests first, to verify a healthy or failed pump.

The "click" heard/felt at the IP when connecting/disconnecting the pink wire is the ESS (Engine Stop Solenoid, fuel solenoid, etc.). Clicking only indicates the solenoid is working. If fuel passes through the pump with it "on", and doesn't when it's "off", it's working just fine. If it doesn't work, it will either not allow any fuel and not start/run, or it won't close, and the engine will not stop when the key is off. Keep it that simple. If it's clicking, don't mess with it. The result can be a run-away engine (and a need of clean shorts).

[Bigshankhank]

****, one of the last times it ran the engine wouldn't shut off with the key turned and even removed from the ignition switch.

[Bigshankhank]

Allow to propose a lazy question;
Given the engine placement within the doghouse tunnel on my van, getting to the glow plugs on the front four cylinders (2 right side and 2 left) is a bit of chore, having to work in the blind. Do all eight GPs need to be removed in order to test for fuel spray? If so, then so be it.

[DmaxMaverick]

That's concerning. If it continued to run with the power taken away, the pump definitely needs attention. Not necessarily an overhaul or replacement, but a Stanadyne tech needs to have a look at it. A bench test would confirm it's condition. A simple ESS repair will be inexpensive, if that's all it is. A quick Google search shows the nearest Stanadyne certified shop is Pinellas Diesel Service (http://www.pinellasdieselservice.com/fuel-injection-shop) in Clearwater. They appear to be capable. Give them a call.

[Bigshankhank]

Cool, thank you. I pulled the four GPs and got a blast of air but no fuel, even with my finger in front of the hole it came back dry after several rotations, I'll see if that shop can check my pump over the weekend.
Thanks again.

[Dvldog8793]

If no fuel spray on 4 cylinders, you are not getting fuel to the injectors.
I would expect it is the ESS or the wire to it. Both of those can be verified without taking the pump out. It could just be a pinched wire. I have never had to replace the ESS but it shouldn't be to hard, I know all the pumps in my local salvage yard have the top cover gone and ESS missing:rolleyes:. So it would seem that a shade tree can do it.
If you had the truck running and then it failed due to nasty fuel it might be possible that the fuel did something to the ESS.
In any case, I would verify the ESS and research replacing it before you pull the pump.
Good Luck!

[Bigshankhank]

If no fuel spray on 4 cylinders, you are not getting fuel to the injectors.
I would expect it is the ESS or the wire to it. Both of those can be verified without taking the pump out. It could just be a pinched wire. I have never had to replace the ESS but it shouldn't be to hard, I know all the pumps in my local salvage yard have the top cover gone and ESS missing:rolleyes:. So it would seem that a shade tree can do it.
If you had the truck running and then it failed due to nasty fuel it might be possible that the fuel did something to the ESS.
In any case, I would verify the ESS and research replacing it before you pull the pump.
Good Luck!

I am getting voltage to the ESS, and the solenoid clicks (faintly but I can hear it and feel a bump with my finger on it) when I remove and replace the pink wire.

Sadly yesterday I received the dreaded "Get your RV out of your driveway" notice from my HOA, so now I am in crisis mode. I am going double check the tightness of both of my new fuel filters and bleed air out of the injectors one more time then pull the GPs and check for fuel mist with a clean paper towel before I commit to removing the IP. I just need to limp it over to the storage lot two miles away.

[Dvldog8793]

If you are getting air in the system, it is BEFORE the lift pump. Sometimes you can identify this by a line that get wet when not cranking but not actively leaking. Cant remember if you replaced any in tank parts. Are you using an outside fuel source(the boat tank)? It could be possible that you are sucking air from inside the tank.
MOST of the time, you will be safe checking for fuel at 3-4 cylinders, the odds of more than a couple injectors NOT working at all is pretty slim, especially since you did have it running at some point.
Sounds like your ESS is working. Like DMAX said, the injector pump needs to be pushing fuel at a very high pressure. So even if you have fuel at the injector line fittings, it may not be popping the injectors. Especially if the injectors are a little tight and sticky.
If you pull the pump this weekend, follow the instructions in the book step by step. In a van it will be a pain because access to the front and the pump lines is tight.
Again....Good luck!

[Bigshankhank]

If you are getting air in the system, it is BEFORE the lift pump. Sometimes you can identify this by a line that get wet when not cranking but not actively leaking. Cant remember if you replaced any in tank parts. Are you using an outside fuel source(the boat tank)? It could be possible that you are sucking air from inside the tank.
MOST of the time, you will be safe checking for fuel at 3-4 cylinders, the odds of more than a couple injectors NOT working at all is pretty slim, especially since you did have it running at some point.
Sounds like your ESS is working. Like DMAX said, the injector pump needs to be pushing fuel at a very high pressure. So even if you have fuel at the injector line fittings, it may not be popping the injectors. Especially if the injectors are a little tight and sticky.

I am still using the van's tank, so if its leaking between there and the primary filter up to the lift pump at least I know where all the fittings are.
I have not dropped the main tank to get to any of it's parts as it is full of fuel. I have been hoping to just run the fuel level down and drop it once it is near to empty so I can fix the sending unit and replace the sock, but you know it has to actually run in order to do that. I do not have enough containers to siphon nearly 40 gallons out of it.
I did check the fuel lines and filters after I replaced them and had the engine running and did not notice any weeping or wet spots, but I will roll up underneath again this evening and see if I can spot anything. There are no drops on the driveway, FWIW.


If you pull the pump this weekend, follow the instructions in the book step by step. In a van it will be a pain because access to the front and the pump lines is tight.
Again....Good luck!

Man you don't even know. I have read the steps in the book a couple of times through and really want to try and get it out tonight so I can get it to the shop in the morning and maybe get it back and reinstalled this weekend. if I had a helper who could do the work from inside while I work from outside it would be nice, but noone I know knows a darn thing about wrenching. It being Mother's day means I don't even have Sunday to work on it which sucks. :mad:

[Bigshankhank]

Only confusing part of removing the IP, how do I place a timing mark on the pump prior to removal? Assuming I do not need to replace it with new, is there a pulley on the face of it with a timing mark somewhere? I can just mark the body to match that so when I get it back it should align close enough to get down the road, correct? Once I pull it off, I won't rotate the engine any further so I am not too terribly concerned with lining up the engine timing marks in any orientation, just resetting the IP position to match it when it was removed.

Thanks again for the help.

[DmaxMaverick]

The pump timing, initially, should be a walk in the park. It should already have timing marks on the pump mounting flange top, and on the timing cover top. The marks should line up, or be close (if timing has been adjusted, which is normal for higher mileage engines to compensate for timing parts wear). If you don't find timing marks on both, scribe a mark on the pump flange that lines up with the mark on the timing cover. If you find marks and they are more than 1/8" apart, make a scribe mark on the IP flange that lines up with the mark on the timing cover. If you install a different pump, it should have a timing mark you can line up with the mark on the timing cover (line it up approximate to the current pump timing marks). Timing may not be ideal, but it's close enough for a start and run. Correct on not turning the engine with the IP removed. It won't mess with the pump timing, but the pump drive gear can become off-timed with the cam gear (it just sits on top of the cam gear with no pump installed). When installing, the indexing pin on the pump drive flange will reset the correct timing (it will only install correctly one way. so make SURE the pin lines up with the hole in the gear). If for any reason the gear timing seem off, confirm it by lining up the gear timing marks. It's a good idea to rotate the engine so the marks can be seen (through the oil fill hole) lined up, before removing the pump. I've never had one move on me, but it can happen.

If you make timing adjustments, remember, the pump rotates opposite the crank, and at 1/2 speed of the crank (IP timing degrees will be exaggerated at 2X that of the crank, so it doesn't take much movement to mean a lot).

[Bigshankhank]

The pump timing, initially, should be a walk in the park. It should already have timing marks on the pump mounting flange top, and on the timing cover top. The marks should line up, or be close (if timing has been adjusted, which is normal for higher mileage engines to compensate for timing parts wear). If you don't find timing marks on both, scribe a mark on the pump flange that lines up with the mark on the timing cover. If you find marks and they are more than 1/8" apart, make a scribe mark on the IP flange that lines up with the mark on the timing cover. If you install a different pump, it should have a timing mark you can line up with the mark on the timing cover (line it up approximate to the current pump timing marks). Timing may not be ideal, but it's close enough for a start and run. Correct on not turning the engine with the IP removed. It won't mess with the pump timing, but the pump drive gear can become off-timed with the cam gear (it just sits on top of the cam gear with no pump installed). When installing, the indexing pin on the pump drive flange will reset the correct timing (it will only install correctly one way. so make SURE the pin lines up with the hole in the gear). If for any reason the gear timing seem off, confirm it by lining up the gear timing marks. It's a good idea to rotate the engine so the marks can be seen (through the oil fill hole) lined up, before removing the pump. I've never had one move on me, but it can happen.

If you make timing adjustments, remember, the pump rotates opposite the crank, and at 1/2 speed of the crank (IP timing degrees will be exaggerated at 2X that of the crank, so it doesn't take much movement to mean a lot).

Got it, I am not intending to change or adjust timing at this point, I would hope with only 62K miles this engine isn't "worn" enough to necessitate adjustment yet.

From reading the book, isn't it necessary to rotate the crank in order to access the mounting bolts for the pump? I don't have the book in front of me right now, but I understand removing the oil fill tube from the plate is necessary to access those bolts, and rotating the crank allows access to all three of them.

[DmaxMaverick]

Yes. You will need to rotate the engine to access all the bolts. I was referring to rotation once the pump is removed. If you line up the timing marks on the gears once all the bolts are removed, it will be more simple to line up the pilot/index pin during reinstall. It isn't complicated, and there's no reason to complicate it.

[Bigshankhank]

OK, just wanted to make sure I understood what you were saying.

edit: Called that shop and they are closed on the weekend, did you just google Stanadyne repair shops or how did you find them?

edit #2: Nevermind, I searched both Google and Stanadyne's homepage and that is the nearest shop to me. Monday it shall be, and hopefully it will be a simple fix that I can get it moving by Tuesday.

[DmaxMaverick]

Google search for Sarasota and Stanadyne, and Stanadyne's page. Good luck with your HOA!

[Dvldog8793]

FYI-
When you are removing the injection pump bolts, Put a shop rag in the bottom of the hole to prevent any stuff, like the bolt, from dropping into the cover. I also put a dab of heavy grease on the socket to make sure the bolt doesn't drop out of the socket.
If you remove as many glow plugs as you can, turning the engine will be MUCH easier. It will be VERY helpful to have at least some extra eyes to watch for the bolt to come into view while you are turn the engine.
Have good weekend!

[Bigshankhank]

Got it, thanks. Sadly this is a solo effort.

[Bigshankhank]

Oh my, I may have found my problem. I hope and pray that I found my problem. Will report back in the AM.

[Bigshankhank]

Possible air leak at the secondary filter. Fixed, re-bled all eight injectors. Now it will start and blow a ton of white smoke, then will stall.
Dies almost immediately upon startup, I can get to about 1/2 throttle and it will hang in for a second or two longer then it stalls.
Quick help anyone who is out there.

[DmaxMaverick]

Keep looking for leaks. Test for air in the system. You should have the clear line installed on the fuel return outlet until this is completely behind you. As long as air is getting into the system, starting attempts will result the same (fruitless).

[Bigshankhank]

Keep looking for leaks. Test for air in the system. You should have the clear line installed on the fuel return outlet until this is completely behind you. As long as air is getting into the system, starting attempts will result the same (fruitless).

So are you saying it sounds like air rather than the IP? Cause I am sure you can tell that I really do not want to remove the IP if I don't have to.

[DmaxMaverick]

It could be the IP, but I don't know. It could be air, which hasn't been eliminated. Eliminating the IP would be simple: Just replace it (and you may still have a problem with air). Eliminating an air leak requires a process, but a lot less expensive than replacing the IP. If you have a leak, and replace the IP, you still have to fix the leak.

What I would do, knowing what I know about your truck at this time:
Plug in the block heater.
Connect a battery charger (charge, not trickle).
Install a clear line loop at the fuel return outlet at the pump.
Verify the HPCA (http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=20598) is getting power on a cold start with key ON. It's the other wire connected to the IP (not on the throttle, if it has a TPS (http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=20598)).
Come back after 2-4 hours after connecting charger and block heater.
Injector lines tight, and everything ready for a "normal" start. Crank engine in 15 second intervals (with 5 minutes rest). Watch the fuel return clear line loop. The fuel should push out any air, and you should not see more bubbles. If more bubbles, back to step 1: find/fix the leak.

It started and ran before, which means the IP and injectors are, at least, minimally functional. Something caused the fuel volume to diminish or stop enough to not continue running.

[Bigshankhank]

It could be the IP, but I don't know. It could be air, which hasn't been eliminated. Eliminating the IP would be simple: Just replace it (and you may still have a problem with air). Eliminating an air leak requires a process, but a lot less expensive than replacing the IP. If you have a leak, and replace the IP, you still have to fix the leak.

What I would do, knowing what I know about your truck at this time:
Plug in the block heater.
Connect a battery charger (charge, not trickle).
Install a clear line loop at the fuel return outlet at the pump.
Verify the HPCA (http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=20598) is getting power on a cold start with key ON. It's the other wire connected to the IP (not on the throttle, if it has a TPS (http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/showthread.php?t=20598)).
Come back after 2-4 hours after connecting charger and block heater.
Injector lines tight, and everything ready for a "normal" start. Crank engine in 15 second intervals (with 5 minutes rest). Watch the fuel return clear line loop. The fuel should push out any air, and you should not see more bubbles. If more bubbles, back to step 1: find/fix the leak.

It started and ran before, which means the IP and injectors are, at least, minimally functional. Something caused the fuel volume to diminish or stop enough to not continue running.

Sorry I don't mean to jump to conclusions regarding the potential for air in the lines, as I said I am now under a timeline to get this thing moving and grasping at any simple fix.
Anyway, I bought some clear line, a fuel cap & schrader valve and will commence to build a tank pressurization setup and check the lines. Considsering the configuration of the van, I cannot get a good look at the IP, but from what I can see there should be ten lines on it; eight (one for each injector) one supply from the secondary filter and one return line to the tank. Is that correct? Diagrams and pictures are not clear on this. I just want to ensure I hook up the clear line in the right spot.

[Bigshankhank]

OK, the return line is more obvious than I thought once I could get closer to the pump, so I put a clear 1/4" line and some tight worm drive clamps on there and with 20 seconds or so of cranking the line filled up to the peak and started draining back down. Now, initially there were some bubbles, but by the time I was cranking it a third and fourth time the bubbles were tiny bubbles. What kind of bubbles are we talking about that would cause problems?
I went ahead and made a pressurization cap for the tank, that is next.

[DmaxMaverick]

Most of the fuel that passes through the IP goes out the return. Very little fuel, especially at idle and no-load, actually goes to the injectors. Any bubbles passing through once it's purged, means air is entering the IP through the supply. It doesn't take much air at all to foul the high pressure fuel injection process. The actual high pressure circuit from the IP to the injectors is a very small volume. Once the engine is running and at higher RPM's and load (like revving), any air leak will allow MORE air in than while just cranking.

Pressurizing the tank is a good way to locate leaks. Don't expect a huge spray or stream. Most will appear as area(s) of wetness or slow drips. If the leak happens to be the fuel pick-up assy (gage sender, and a common suspect on older rigs), it won't leak externally.

Also, make sure your fuel cap is for Diesel, and the vent is working properly. A gasser cap will fit, but it will not vent properly, and cause all kinds of issues that will look like something else (like a failed lift pump or IP, or a leak).

[Bigshankhank]

Still working. While cranking it would fire up occasionally (LOUD without the air cleaner in place) and push a bunch of bubbles through the clear line at first and would eventually settle to the tiny bubbles.

Went ahead and pressurized the tank, went underneath and cannot find any source of a leak; no wet spots where lines join, nor at either filter or at either pump. I've got a 6 amp charger hooked to it for now, along with the block heater. I will step away for a bit and return to check the clear line once it has had time to heat up/charge.

[Bigshankhank]

Most of the fuel that passes through the IP goes out the return. Very little fuel, especially at idle and no-load, actually goes to the injectors. Any bubbles passing through once it's purged, means air is entering the IP through the supply. It doesn't take much air at all to foul the high pressure fuel injection process. The actual high pressure circuit from the IP to the injectors is a very small volume. Once the engine is running and at higher RPM's and load (like revving), any air leak will allow MORE air in than while just cranking.

Pressurizing the tank is a good way to locate leaks. Don't expect a huge spray or stream. Most will appear as area(s) of wetness or slow drips. If the leak happens to be the fuel pick-up assy (gage sender, and a common suspect on older rigs), it won't leak externally.

Also, make sure your fuel cap is for Diesel, and the vent is working properly. A gasser cap will fit, but it will not vent properly, and cause all kinds of issues that will look like something else (like a failed lift pump or IP, or a leak).

No Diesel marking on the cap, and it is black so I have to assume it is a gasser cap. Would it work better with the cap removed if it is a venting problem?
I was worried about a leak up on top of the tank, no way for me to track that down short of removing it. As for the tiny little bubbles, are you saying that they are a cause for concern? I know when bleeding brakes you want a line of pure fluid, no bubbles of any kind so I assume the same for this, though with brakes a little air will still allow the brakes to function, if a bit mushy. I had hoped that the amount of air I think I am seeing would at least allow it to run, even if only roughly (enough to get it out of my neighborhood and back to the storage yard.
Bubbles while cranking
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/0C50B34B-EF94-47FD-AD50-3E5E1355F49B_zpsmzlzdbvo.jpg

[Bigshankhank]

Well, after all that the results remain the same. It starts and immediately dies. There are no longer any bubbles in the return line, so I think I've got the system air tight and bled.

Will an electric inline pump overcome the failed IP? because that was what was in there when I started this whole episode and I removed it when I replaced the lift pump.

[DmaxMaverick]

Disregard this, since you are getting no air.

Looks like you still have a leak, somewhere. Once the return line is free of air, it should stay that way. No bubbles. Little or big. None. The slug of air when you first start cranking is what settled out since the last attempt. The little bubbles are real time. Are you continuing to get air in the filters?

[DmaxMaverick]

Later models (90-something?) had green fuel caps. All of them earlier were black, and may or may not be labeled. If your cap is questionable, they're cheap. Otherwise, running with it loosened will allow it to vent. I don't think that's the problem now, at any rate (it doesn't run long enough to make it a problem).

An electric pump should not overcome any failures of the IP. A proper electric pump would perform no better than your mechanical pump, but an electric pump that will push the fuel at a much higher pressure (like a gasser pump) might. A healthy IP will draw enough fuel for idle and low power, with a failed lift pump. None of this explains the start and die situation. A failed IP doesn't explain it, either. If an IP can start, it should continue running, at least minimally. Keep monitoring for air. I have nothing else at this time.

[Bigshankhank]

Missed it, but before we go any further I want to thank you very much for all of your help the past few days.

[Bigshankhank]

I am throwing in the towel for the night and probably sending it to a mechanic on Monday.
Things like this is the reason why I prefer working on motorcycles.

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
A couple easy things to try....run a line bypassing the secondary filter directly to the primary. So your line will go from the LP to filter to IP.
How much soft line is in place before the LP?
Can you run your feed line to the LP from a separate source, like the boat tank or motorcycle tank? It this works it will get you to the yard.
I am wondering if you have allot of soft line before the LP if it is sucking it down enough to restrict fuel flow.

[Bigshankhank]

Tried the boat tank to no avail, so I am dead in the water. Getting a tow in the morning.

[Bigshankhank]

So the mechanic has confirmed that the IP is bad so he are working on a quote to remove & send to the injection shop in Clearwater (apparently they are THE injection pump shop in the area). He also mentioned that the new lift pump was not functioning. When I removed the old one, I used the grease on the actuator rod trick to hold it back in there when I installed the new one. Of course once its on, is there any way for me to confirm that it is in fact actuating the lift pump? Is there anything internally that a PO could have disabled, or that may have ceased to function causing the lift pump to not operate? As I understood it, there is a cam connected to the crankshaft which pushed the rod against the arm of the pump, and the spring under that arm returns the rod as the cam turns away.

[Dvldog8793]

With the LP CONFIRMED not working. I wonder how they tested the IP?
In my experience those Mechanical LPs are pretty solid. If you got the rod in place, I would want to see it verified DOA. More likely that it is struggling to get fuel. This seems to be the common problem, fuel supply to the engine. Whether it is a tank pick-up problem, Lift pump or injector pump problem. Since you had the truck running at one time I would not be so quick to jump into an IP.

[Bigshankhank]

As I'm understanding it, the mechanic noticed there was no fuel at the secondary filter so he bypassed the LP with an electric pump. Once he got fuel to the IP, the IP was not consistently delivering fuel to the injectors.

[Bigshankhank]

Been a while since I updated this. After the injector pump rebuild we drove this a few times but kept chasing an electrical drain. I think there is a short in the glow plug circuit because it constantly cycles on and off while running. I assume it was continuing to do so while it sat, though we parked it at our new house and what with remodel work on the house itself we haven’t touched it in several months, so the batteries are dead again. Also, I bought another Chevy van RV with the same 6.2 in it which is in better shape than the 1st one, but has an alternator mounting bolt broken in the head. More than likely I’ll pull the engine from the 1st van since put so much effort in to it and scrap the remaining hulk.

That being said, any sage advice for pulling this massive engine out from the van? Remove hood, grille, radiator, front clip, unbolt trans and headers at the exhaust and yank with a strong lift I imagine. Thoughts?

[DmaxMaverick]

Simplify your life. Ditch the 83 GP controller system entirely, and install a 85-93 OEM controller. Don't look back. An alternative is to ditch the automatic GP system, and install a manual system. A HD relay (Ford starter relay, or any relay capable of 10A exciter, and 100A throughput), a momentary switch and some simple wiring is all that's required.

If the GP system is "grounding", that's a problem independent of the GP system operation, or anything else. Check the battery load with key off. The GP system shouldn't be getting any power with the key off, so even if it has a short, it shouldn't be shorting anything. Aftermarket accessories or a hacked electrical system is a much more likely suspect.

A cycling GP controller is the function of the temperature switch. They will, normally, cycle a few times after a start, but that should stop, completely, once the ECT is 120-140F+. If the cycling is rhythmic, rather than random, the controller/relay is doing it's job correctly with bad input (temp switch). If it's random, poor wiring is more likely.

[Bigshankhank]

I actually installed the later GP switch from Kennedy and it still cycled rhythmically. I also upgraded the plugs themselves to correspond to the shorter cycle.
Yes the wiring was hacked (or rat-eaten in some cases) all to hell. If I recall correctly, when we first got the van I inadvertently touched the terminals on the original GP controller with a screwdriver and got a spark, and I don’t think I had the key in the ignition. But it’s been a long time since then, my memory may be faulty.
I haven’t had time to pull the doghouse on the “new” one to check the GP controller, it’s an 84, has about 1/2 the mileage and at least from under the hood the harness and everything else looks a lot cleaner.

[Bigshankhank]

Simplify your life. Ditch the 83 GP controller system entirely, and install a 85-93 OEM controller. Don't look back. An alternative is to ditch the automatic GP system, and install a manual system. A HD relay (Ford starter relay, or any relay capable of 10A exciter, and 100A throughput), a momentary switch and some simple wiring is all that's required.


To this point, is there a good write up in here? I’ve searched but it must be buried deeper in some older posts than I have the time to find it. I wouldn’t hesitate to simplify this system with a dash switch, just need a little guidance. It wasn’t covered in the DPF maintenance book I bought.

[DmaxMaverick]

Only the "hot" side of the relay/controller is always hot. If you shorted it, it can burn the fusible link (between the controller and firewall/battery junction), or damage the pole contacts, but little else.

The manual GP mod is so simple, it doesn't actually require any guide or complicated instruction:

Install the relay, grounded to the body or frame, in close proximity to the left/rear of the engine compartment (anywhere is fine, it's just that this is where most are located, even modern Duramax trucks). The relay selection isn't critical, but we recommend the Ford relay/solenoid because they are capable, reliable, inexpensive, and can be found nearly anywhere, although you could use any that is of minimum rating. Run Batt+ to one large pole (minimum 10 AWG, or use the original healthy lead), and the other large pole goes to all the GP's. Run Batt+ to the small pole, through the momentary switch. Wire the original exciter lead to the GP pole, and it will illuminate the GP lamp on the instrument panel (this will show actual power to the GP's, rather than just an energized system). Done. Any more description complicates it beyond necessity.

[Bigshankhank]

Well I’m going to be a good little forum user/supporter and order the volume I & II books from the library. I already have the troubleshooting and repair book and it was super useful so this will round out the series and maybe keep me from asking dumb questions. Thanks for the help.

[Bigshankhank]

FWIW I am still fettling on the 2nd RV, one of the retaining bolts for the alternator/generator (old style) snapped in the head and removing it has proven tough. Coupled with me working out of town, remodeling my house and traveling with the wife over the past several months have left me little time to do much. I have broken a bolt extractor in it but luckily managed to get it back out, my latest scheme is drill the bolt, then I ran a left hand tap into it and I ordered some left hand grade 8.8 bolts hoping the threads will grab it better than the ribs on the extractor did. Also been soaking it repeatedly with PB Blaster.
Last resort will be pulling the head, at that point I’d probably just swap heads with the first van and be done with it.

[DmaxMaverick]

If the heads are good otherwise and you're removing them anyway, you can swap them left to right. New bolt holes all around. Been there. Done that. If the head gaskets aren't recent, now is as good a time as any.

[Bigshankhank]

Been doing some research on this head swap, since I have the other RV that I know was running well I’ll probably pull the same head and swap those two.

Not looking forward to manhandling the heads inside the tunnel of the engine bay.

[Yukon6.2]

I bolted a pipe to the head to act as a handle.
I even hung one from a ratchet strap so i could lower it carefully onto a new head gasket.

[Bigshankhank]

I bolted a pipe to the head to act as a handle.
I even hung one from a ratchet strap so i could lower it carefully onto a new head gasket.

Could you explain this more? I was thinking once the valve cover was off I could bolt something to the cam retainers (I’ve never seen inside these heads so I don’t know if this would work) to use as a lifting bar.

Since I am only dealing with a single stuck bolt, I might just pull the head and take it to a shop to have the bolt blasted out and have them check the head for warpage rather than swap a different one in.

[Yukon6.2]

Yes i took a couple of pieces of pipe,drilled holes to match the rocker studs and then bolted them down.I chose pipe because it was round and more comfortable to my hands.
After i got my truck going,one head developed a leak so i used the pipes again and rigged to a high point where i used the ratchet strap to take the weight as i lowered the new head on the block.

[Bigshankhank]

Well the head removal begins today. So far I am at the point where everything on top of engine is out of the way, next step is removing the exhaust header, then valve cover and so on. I found a really good US Army service manual that I would say is better than the GM one. I found it on http://steelsoldiers.com in case anyone is interested.
Despite my fears, I would argue that this has been easier in the van than it would be in a truck, as the engine is about 80% beneath the doghouse meaning sitting in the van places me above the engine the entire time. However it also means the header is between the frame and floor pan so space will be limited.
Wish me luck on the header bolts.

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/upload/CUCV/TM9-2320-289-34.pdf

[Bigshankhank]

Had to leave the header attached and break the exhaust loose where it exits the header as there was no room to get a socket on the bolts. However with a little muscle it came out pretty well. I’ll likely remove the exhaust pipe back to the muffler as that was the only place the head really bound up. Once it was on the bench all it took was a little heat to break loose the header bolts, and now it’s all ready to be dropped off at a machine shop to get the bolt out. I tried putting a vice grip on the end of it but there’s just not enough to grab securely. All things considered, I am mostly happy to have pulled the head as just a learning experience. Getting it back on will be interesting, as well.

Any recommendations on head gaskets? Mahle? Fel-Pro? Also, is it really worth going to studs in lieu of sticking with head bolts?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/59147EDF-6834-432E-A18B-6B53DF69B603_zpsfoq3butq.jpeg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/C4987078-5A03-40A4-B7B1-8CE7A642FE2D_zpsc29etccl.jpeg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/96D7ABB1-EA42-4F1B-8382-F1C88CDA6756_zpstpyoyz7i.jpeg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/8B0DF851-56D4-4BEC-9AC6-B9809BF83A57_zpsij6izc8z.jpeg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/bigshankhank/1983%20Chevy%20Transtar%20RV/1B80E764-471D-4C69-A9EE-BA772B39DE0B_zpsejrvryum.jpeg

[Bigshankhank]

Did a little more reading in my TDP books, since mine is an early 6.2l it sounds like I will need the Detroit head gaskets.
Remaining question is the bolts vs studs. Anyone?

[Yukon6.2]

Hi
I am just curious about the reason for the Detroit head gaskets?
And are you going to replace the gasket on the other side?
As to bolts or studs...
Remember if you use studs you will need extra room above the engine to put the head's back on.
Thomas

[Bigshankhank]

Hi
I am just curious about the reason for the Detroit head gaskets?
And are you going to replace the gasket on the other side?
As to bolts or studs...
Remember if you use studs you will need extra room above the engine to put the head's back on.
Thomas

I got the recommendation for the Detroit gaskets from the TDP book. Is there a compelling argument against them? And no, I am not replacing the gasket on the other side, no reason to.
I had the stud/bolt discussion with the machine shop where I dropped of the head, and as luck would have it the mechanic I spoke with has worked on 6.2's in cargo vans before and made that exact point, so I'm sticking with bolts.

[DieselDavy]

I'm hoping "More Power" will jump in here and comment on his head gasket recommendation. Maybe JK or Robyn will chime in also.
d

[Bigshankhank]

I'm hoping "More Power" will jump in here and comment on his head gasket recommendation. Maybe JK or Robyn will chime in also.
d

I welcome any advice, I am not a diesel engine builder in my day to day life, more of a motorcycle guy.

Fact is I cannot find a source for the Detroit gaskets anyway, unless its from the same Detroit as Detroit Diesel heavy duty engines (from 18-wheelers and locomotive engines). Everything else I've found recommends Fel-Pro. Again, the TDP books had a section describing the various strong and weak points of the different manufacturers of 6.2 & 6.5 gaskets for use on the six-two and the final recommendation was the Detroit. If I can find them.

[Robyn]

Felpro gaskets and bolts are readily available and top notch parts.

I have always used the Felpro stuff.

When you order the gaskets be sure to specify the year.

Some early 6.2 engines "May" have a slightly different water passage configuration.

It may have been only the 1982 "Red" engines that were different, but compare the old one to the new gasket and make sure all the holes line up.


Before you install the head/s be sure to run a metric tap through the head bolt holes to clean them....clean the threads with brakleen or similar degreasing solvent.

NO OILY GOOP ALLOWED
The new bolts come with a DRY SILICONE on the new bolt threads.

Make sure that the deck of the block is SPOTLESSLY CLEAN ...Also be sure that there are no worn spots in the deck where the stainless fire ring has eroded the cast iron block.
This type of erosion can be seen more near the #1 and #2 cylinders where the block does not have a water passage.

The coolant lays against the block and over time electrolysis can cause etching of the deck near the fire ring.

If the fire ring has eroded the deck the only fix is to machine the block (Not pretty as it means removal and complete tear down)

Be sure to follow the torque specs on the bolts exactly... The bolts come with a nice printed sheet in the box along with the sequence too...

Normally these are a multi step sequence with the final pass through being A 1/4 TURN
(20 ftlb...50 ftlb...then 1/4 turn comes to mind)

The TTY (Torque to yield) bolts are pretty much the best choice on these engines..

[Bigshankhank]

This is all great information, thank you.
I checked and mine has the extra water passage at the back of the head. I also think it has the larger intake valves from the early heads (pretty substantial size difference between the intake & exhaust when I looked at them) which I had thought they stopped using in '82? Maybe because this is in an RV they figured to continue spec'ing them for a few more years.
I haven't had a chance to clean the mating surface on the block. Since this wasn't leaking to begin with (I removed it in order to remove a stuck bolt) I am hoping that there won't be any residual damage to any surfaces.

Different question; should I use anti-seize on the exhaust manifold bolts? Because of clearance issues I couldn't get a socket & breaker bar on the bolts and so had to leave the manifold attached when I pulled the head, and if I ever have to remove the head again being able to remove them with just a combination wrench would make this process easier.

[Bigshankhank]

Yup, took me a loooong time but I am finally getting around to re-installing this head. For anyone who wants to try this in a van, don’t, just get a different vehicle. This is going to be a 3-person task, 2 in the cab and 1 stretching through the hood helping to maneuver.

[Bigshankhank]

Head on, bolted down, rockers, injectors, exhaust manifold and glow plugs installed, valve cover lightly torqued in place with RTV, I’ll tighten it up tomorrow morning and install the injector lines, intake and the rest of the odds and ends.

[Bigshankhank]

I’m pretty stoked about this old rig running again. https://youtu.be/H5cViq7fp7I

[Robyn]

Good deal.
Any engine in a van is a pain to work on. (Actually, yours has a fair bit of room around the engine compared to the smaller vans "Astro" )
At the factory the engine and trans are mounted to the sub frame and the entire assembly are installed from the bottom as a package.

There are few parts on a van that are easy to work on..

The same van with the small block V8 are somewhat easier....but not much....

Enjoy the rig....

[Bigshankhank]

Good deal.
Any engine in a van is a pain to work on. (Actually, yours has a fair bit of room around the engine compared to the smaller vans "Astro" )
At the factory the engine and trans are mounted to the sub frame and the entire assembly are installed from the bottom as a package.

There are few parts on a van that are easy to work on..

The same van with the small block V8 are somewhat easier....but not much....

Enjoy the rig....

Incredibly difficult, without a doubt. I wanted to go with studs instead of head bolts but another member pointed out that I might not have clearance to maneuver the head over the studs. That plus mounting the 2nd battery in a chamber beneath the driver's floorboard makes doing simple things just that much more difficult. Although I will admit that having the top of the engine right there inside the cab made a lot of this work doable while sitting in either the driver or passenger's seat rather than bent over the fender. But it also meant a lot of work from the inside, get out and work through the hood, get back in and work from the inside, get out and work through the hood again.