Broken king-pin box on 5th wheel.

[DickWells]

Big Don from Mn. rolled in here a week ago yesterday, about an hour after Jean and I did. He's younger, but he had a stroke, a few years back and has a hard time with his Ford 350 SRW, backing and in tight going, so, he always gets me to back it into his spot. It was a nearly straight shot of about 150 feet, but, after I'd pulled ahead to line up their patio in the right-hand mirror a couple of times, he stepped up by the window and informed me that the hitch was mashed up into the front of the trailer. Been that way since Waco! I got out and gave it a look-over and went back to backing. Stupid thing kept sliding sideways on top of the bed rails.:eek: How the heck that man made it some 400 miles in that condition is beyond me. It only slid about 2 inches either way, but that was enough to throw me, at first, trying to get the edge of the patio lined up back there.

So, has anyone here ever had that kind of an issue? Trying to find out what Don's going to find up in there, at the top of the pin box. I shiver to think about it, because that trailer must have well over 3,000 lbs on the tongue. Luckily, the power jacks were able to pick the trailer and hitch up high enough to let me pull away clear of the bed rails. He's contacting his insurance, but, regardless, he's just about locked into fixing this thing before he can hit the road again. Don't bet that the thing isn't overloaded, because I've seen the stuff that's in that huge storage area under the BR.

Looking for all the experience and advice we can get.
Thanks,
DW

[CoyleJR]

Dick,

It sounds like the cross members that support the 5th wheel pin box assembly have broken. I have a 2008 Forest River 38' Sandpiper 5th wheel and it broke the supports when it was less than a year old. The manufacturer stood behind it but I had to deliver it to Dallas Oregon where it was built for the warranty repairs. If Big Don has a Forest River product they may pay some part of the repair cost. They were having problems with the welds breaking on the pin box supports and the side supports. The skin on the left front side of my trailer also had to be removed to repair and reinforce the side supports.

Since brand new my trailer has had a 5th Airborn (air bag) pin box that should have taken a lot of stress off of the supports and welds on the trailer. I hate to think what would have happened if I had not spent the extra money for the air bag pin box.

Let us know what your friend finds and what the fix is.
Good luck
John

[DickWells]

Thanks, John.
His trailer is an Everest, by Keystone, an 06, thirty four , or 36 feet long, it's (supposed) to gross 13950 lbs. I would guess that he's exceeding this by-------- something:rolleyes:, knowing how he loads it.

I have to cringe, when I look at the leverage that the pin has on the box, since it measures at least 28 inches from the center of the pin to the ~ center of the pin-box.

He has a Trail Air hitch and it appears to be un-damaged. Back above the box frame, where it pushed up into the front, the fiberglass is cracked up and the rubber moldings, out at the lower corners where the fiberglass panels meet, the moldings are scrubbed/squeezed out of contact from rubbing on the bed rails!

Gonna be a mess, up inside where we can't see, I'll bet.

[arveetek]

Unfortunately, it's not that uncommon. His frame is probably built by Lippert Components, who make most trailer frames for nearly all the towable RV manufacturers these days. Lippert has had a few issues over the years with the frame breaking around the pin box. There's probably not much that Keystone or Lippert will do on a 10-year old rig, but it might be worth a call to either one. I will get you the customer service numbers tomorrow, if I don't forget.

Otherwise, just plan on having someone drop the bulkhead (plastic/fiberglass covering on the bottom), and weld in some bracing on the pin box. It's not big of a job, other than usually the trailer is not near a welding shop when this needs to be addressed. Sometimes you can find a good, mobile welder in situations like this.

Casey

[convert2diesel]

Unfortunately, it's not that uncommon. His frame is probably built by Lippert Components, who make most trailer frames for nearly all the towable RV manufacturers these days. Lippert has had a few issues over the years with the frame breaking around the pin box. There's probably not much that Keystone or Lippert will do on a 10-year old rig, but it might be worth a call to either one. I will get you the customer service numbers tomorrow, if I don't forget.

Casey

That my friend is interesting. Currently shopping for a Glendale Titanium and after 08, they used the Lippert underpinnings. Previously they made their own but it would seem they had a similar problem with the pin box and the goose neck coming apart. If I read this correctly, looks as if the problem continued after the adoption of the Lippert chassis.

On the positive side, looks as if this means I can look at any age of Titanium as it seems I will have to break into the goose neck anyways to reinforce the structure. Much better pricing on the 2000 to 2007s.

Bill

[arveetek]

That my friend is interesting. Currently shopping for a Glendale Titanium and after 08, they used the Lippert underpinnings. Previously they made their own but it would seem they had a similar problem with the pin box and the goose neck coming apart. If I read this correctly, looks as if the problem continued after the adoption of the Lippert chassis.

On the positive side, looks as if this means I can look at any age of Titanium as it seems I will have to break into the goose neck anyways to reinforce the structure. Much better pricing on the 2000 to 2007s.

Bill

I wouldn't be too concerned about purchasing a used rig. As long as you understand there might need to be some upgrades made, you'll be find. Kind of like owning a 6.5L: you go in knowing there are some weak areas that need to be addressed!

Casey

[arveetek]

Customer service numbers:

Lippert Components: 574-537-8900

Keystone RV: 866-425-4369

Make sure you have your Year, make, model, and VIN handy when calling. Also, if you can find a Lippert ID sticker on the frame, that would be helpful too.

Casey

[trbankii]

Stupid thing kept sliding sideways on top of the bed rails.:eek: How the heck that man made it some 400 miles in that condition is beyond me.

This is the kind of thing that really bothers me. I know that sometimes you have to do what you have to do, but it also seems like the sort of thing that could conceivably kill the proverbial busload of nuns and orphans.

[DickWells]

This is the kind of thing that really bothers me. I know that sometimes you have to do what you have to do, but it also seems like the sort of thing that could conceivably kill the proverbial busload of nuns and orphans.

I had very similar thoughts as soon as I walked back and looked at what was happening as I shuttled back and forth while getting the curb-side door lined up parallel with the patio! Scary, indeed. And, I know well, the physical condition of the driver, and how worn out he was on that last 400 mile + run, too.

I'll not show your note, or this one to Don. He has enough on his mind. Thank God that they are here, safely, and we'll have the trailer in good shape again before he hits the road in the Spring.

I printed your info, Casey. Don is going to be taking some of the skin off on the under side and giving things a going over. I'll let y'all know how it's going when we know. And thanks for everything.

DW

[rustyk]

If there's resistance on paying for the repair, it's easy to file a NHTSB report.

[DickWells]

Thanks, Rustyk. Would you mind steering me in the right direction on that NHTSB thing? I don't know at this point how much effort Don is willing to expend on pursuing that path, but it can't hurt to get educated on it.

We got a good look at the carnage the other day, with the bottom skin and the bottom of the fiberglass front cut out and removed. The front cross member is almost totally broken off and bent upwards about two inches. Fracturing looks "frosty", like work-hardening from a resonance and vibration, along with the tremendous upwards pressure from all that weight. The cross members, front and rear of the pin box are both 2x6" rectangular tubing, and look downright puny for such a big rig. Turns out they are "puny". Looks to me like the fiberglass, itself, must have been helping to support quite a bit of weight, since the front cross member was completely broken off at the left side of the pin box, and ripped lengthwise about 6". All welds are complete and intact. The left longitudinal main frame, also 2X6", cracked at the lower-inside angle and ripped rearward from the end of the frame horn about 6". There's quite a crunched-up area of the front fiberglass that's the width of the pin box, and I'm betting it was helping that busted cross member to support at least a couple-hundred pounds of weight. ???

Don's having a hard time finding steel to put in there. These outfits in this area will only sell full-length pieces, though they'll cut them for you cheaply enough. Don't know what Don'll do with 14 foot pieces of heavy steel. Pay for them and then leave them at the sourse, if we don't find someone willing to deal. Funny, back home, in a town of 5,000 people, I could go over and buy my pieces all cut for $5 a cut, and Leo's Welding would be glad to sell me my pieces, and they don't worry about the odd lengths that I didn't take.

All done for the day. Thanks for listening. Headed out to Progresso, Mexico for a cleaning and a filling (teeth). Thirty dollars for a very thorough ultra-sound cleaning and 50-70 for a filling. Jean had a cleaning and a re-capping, two weeks ago; $250 for a really nice looking job. Irma is a Mexican national treasure!

[DickWells]

Came back to the campground on Friday (Black Friday:rolleyes:), and found that while I was out kicking sports car tires, Don had lost control to a 4.5" angle grinder (without a guard!) and cut his left index finger very deeply! He's walking around with a big old aluminum guard on top of a half-inch of gauze, with a swollen and blackened hand. So, the project is on hold, to say the least. Good thing we have all Winter.

[cowboywildbill]

Hi Dick don't know if you remember me. Anyways glad to see your still RVing.
Drop me a line sometime. Wild Bill

[cowboywildbill]

Whoops my last reply got posted before I finished "Fat Fingers" on my part.
Anyway we had a Bison Stratus gooseneck Living quarter Horse trailer. It had a similar problem. They forgot to put in some bracing on the right side front of the floor up to the gooseneck when they built it. It took about a year for it to start making a crease in the aluminum side panel there. I guess the fact that they glue the skin on the trailer made it sturdy enough that it didn't fail completely. First question they asked me was what where we towing it with. I guess if we had been towing with a commercial type tractor it would have voided the warranty. But we were using our Dmax 3500.
The manufacturer " Holiday Rambler" picked it up and took it back to their factory and repaired it. Then they delivered it back to us. We were in Md. and I think the factory was in Indiana. So we were lucky. Hope your friend is OK and heals quickly. And that he gets his trailer fixed without any more setbacks.