View Full Version : Hummer pump gives +30hp???
Since my pump seems to be not working correctly I was browsing the internet to see if I could find another pump for my '92 6.2.
I found this one http://www.vandam4x4.nl/winkel/motoren/dieselpomp-hummer/ the description says it could give 30 extra HP.
Is that true? Will it even fit my engine?
picture of the pump in question:
https://s11.postimg.org/g2ec86mc3/hummer_pump.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/dl2l0x2fj/)
Hummer pumps should fit fine.
The 30 HP ?????
The big difference in the MIL pumps is that they are designed to be able to run various fuels of less than stellar lubricity in a pinch and survive.
IIRC the mil pumps can handle Jet fuel and a few other combinations of "Combustible" liquids.
Not sure what the rated HP of the mil spec 6.5's are.
Pump fuel delivery rate is what makes the power, so could be.
So it's worth a try?
Getting my old pump rebuild could cost me almost just as much as buying this one.
Would it be plug&play installation or does the pump have to adjusted or something?
DmaxMaverick
07-30-2017, 08:12
A lot of the IP (as well as other components) marketing is misleading. Saying that a pump can allow +x HP, does not mean that it will increase HP in and of itself. I saw nothing in that product description that describes a power increased rate, or how it is accomplished. Just replacing the pump, and making no other modifications, will essentially allow your engine to produce as much power as it would have with your original pump (if it's healthy). The replacement pump may have a higher rate of fuel volume ("turned up"), the same/similar as your original pump was capable of, although a marine/HMMWV grade pump may survive higher stress levels, for longer. Increasing fuel volume for any DB2 pump is as simple as turning a screw. You have to be very careful with this, as too much fuel is not only more smokey at higher throttle positions, it can send the EGT's through the roof (and piston crowns through the floor).
When replacing a pump on a N/A engine, you should install it as calibrated to stock levels, and expect OEM power levels. A new/reman set of injectors should also accompany a new pump. You can optimize power with higher pressure injectors and timing adjustment, but there just isn't much room for improvement on a stock N/A 6.2L engine. If you want to optimize the power, first install an EGT gage and watch it carefully before messing with fuel volume and/or timing. If you want more power than what that leaves you, add a turbo. A healthy stock engine is capable of burning all the fuel you can feed it. The shortfall is air, not fuel. This may sound like an "old school" approach, but we are talking about a 35+ year old design.
If I look at the specs of the HMMWV model engine it shows that it puts out 185hp.
Horsepower / Torque (at start): 130 hp (97 kW) @ 3,600 rpm / 240 lb·ft (325 N·m) @ 2,000 rpm
Horsepower / Torque (at final): 160 hp (119 kW) @ 3,600 rpm / 285 lb·ft (386 N·m) @ 2,000 rpm
Horsepower / Torque (US Army HMMWV model): 185 hp (138 kW) @ 3,600 rpm / 330 lb·ft (447 N·m) @ 2,100 rpm
If it's not the pump and/or injectors, (and maybe the open plane inlet manifold)what is it that creates this 180HP instead of the lesser HP of a normal heavy duty engine?
DmaxMaverick
07-30-2017, 08:47
Too many variables missing from your specs. Comparing a 1986 N/A 6.2L civilian spec to 2010 military spec is apples and oranges. The MIL spec you show is likely a modern 6.5L with DB2-4911 injection system. They topped out around 170 HP. More than that requires a turbo, or a "disposable engine" situation.
I'm pulling the info from wikipedia so it could very well be wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Diesel_V8_engine
the 130HP would be for the '86 6.2, the 160HP for the early '90s J-frame engines
But it's not the 6.5, they cover those specs later
6.2L[edit]
The original 6.2 L (379 cu in) Diesel V8 was introduced in 1982 for the Chevrolet C/K and was produced until 1993. The 6.2 L diesel emerged as a high-MPG alternative to the V8 gasoline engine lineup, and achieved better mileage than the General Motors 4.3 L V6 gasoline engines of the 1980s, at a time when the market was focused on mileage more than power.(?) However, it was designed to easily install in place of the gasoline V8, using the same mounting and attachments for transmissions as all GM truck engines. Overall weight for the complete engine is slightly heavier than the 7.4 L gasoline engine.
Applications[edit]
1982–1993 Chevrolet/GMC C/K 1500, 2500, 3500
1992–1993 AM General Hummer H1
1982–1993 AM General HMMWV
GM version of the CUCV
1982–93 Chevrolet Van
Specifications[edit]
Engine RPO codes: LH6 ('C' series, with EGR / EPR) and LL4 ('J' series)
Displacement: 6.2 L / 379 cu in
Bore × stroke: 3.98 in × 3.80 in (101 mm × 97 mm)
Block / Head: Cast iron / Cast iron
Aspiration: Natural
Valvetrain: OHV 2-V
Compression: 21.5:1
Injection: Indirect
Horsepower / Torque (at start): 130 hp (97 kW) @ 3,600 rpm / 240 lb·ft (325 N·m) @ 2,000 rpm
Horsepower / Torque (at final): 160 hp (119 kW) @ 3,600 rpm / 285 lb·ft (386 N·m) @ 2,000 rpm
Horsepower / Torque (US Army HMMWV model): 185 hp (138 kW) @ 3,600 rpm / 330 lb·ft (447 N·m) @ 2,100 rpm
Max RPMs: 3,600 rpm
Idle RPMs: 550 ± 25
6.5L
The 6.5 L (395 cu in) version was introduced in 1992 to replace the 6.2. Most 6.5s are equipped with a turbo. This engine was never meant to be a power and torque competitor with Ford/International and Dodge/Cummins, but rather a simply designed workhorse engine that made credible power, achieved decent fuel economy and met emissions standards in half-ton trucks. The Duramax 6600 replaced the 6.5 in light trucks beginning in 2001 and the C3500HD medium duty cab and chassis (replaced by C4500 Kodiak/Topkick) and vans beginning in 2003, but the 6.5 (6500 Optimizer) is still produced by AM General for the HMMWV.
There are several GM 6.5 liter diesel engine production options. The Turbocharged L56, (VIN "S") was used in most light duty 3/4 ton (2500). Heavy duty 3/4 ton and 1 ton trucks used the Turbocharged L65 (VIN "F") engine. The L56 is emissions controlled with EGR and catalytic converters. The L65 engine has no EGR, and has no catalytic converter. There is a soot trap on L65 engines that is often mistaken for a catalytic converter. GM was the first manufacturer to introduce an electronically controlled fuel injection system into a diesel pickup truck.[2] The L49 (VIN "P") and L57 are both naturally aspirated engines. L57 is listed as HO or Heavy Duty. Additional RPO codes are LQM (175HP) and LQN (190HP).
Changes were made by GM to the 6.5 in their light trucks for emissions or reliability improvement. The 1992-1993 model years used a 6.5-specific Stanadyne DB-2 mechanical injection pump. GM replaced the DB-2 with the electronic throttle DS-4 in 1994-2000 vehicles. In mid-1996 GM implemented a redesigned engine cooling system incorporating twin non bypass-blocking thermostats and a 130 GPM water pump. This improved the flow through the block by 70-75% and flow to the radiator 7%.
Applications[edit]
(6.5 diesel only)
1994 - 1999 Chevy Blazer/ 2-door Tahoe / GMC Yukon/Chevy K-2500, K-3500
1994 - 1999 Chevrolet Suburban / GMC Suburban
1992 - 1999 Chevrolet and GMC C/K
2000 Chevrolet and GMC C/K 2500 & 3500
2001 Chevrolet and GMC C/K 3500
1994 - 2004 AM General Hummer H1
1994–present AM General HMMWV
Specifications[edit]
Engine RPO Codes: L49, L56, L57, L65, LQM, and LQN.
Displacement: 6.5L / 395 cu in
Bore x Stroke: 4.06 x 3.82 (in.)
Block / Head: Cast iron / Cast iron
Aspiration: Turbocharged (Borg-Warner GM-X series) Also available naturally aspirated.
Valvetrain: OHV 2-V
Compression: GM Early 21.3:1, GM Late 20.3:1, AMG/GEP Marine 18:1
Injection: Indirect
Power / Torque (lowest): 155 hp (116 kW) @ 3,600 rpm / 340 lb·ft (461 N·m) @ 1,700 rpm (naturally aspirated)
Power / Torque (highest): 215 hp (160 kW) @ 3,200 rpm / 440 lb·ft (597 N·m) @ 1,800 rpm (turbocharged)[1]
Max RPMs: 4,200
Yukon6.2
07-30-2017, 09:02
Hi
I bought a couple of the MIl spec pumps from eBay.
I bought them because of the prices i got $150. plus shipping.Both of the ones i got were new pumps in 24V clothes.Another plus is the ceramic head and pistons allowing for use of jet fuel.Our winter fuel is called P50 which is like kerosene with no lube to speak of.
I replaced the EFI pump on my 98 6.5 with one. If there was a 30 HP increase i defiantly didn't feel it on that truck.
Definitely a sales gimmick.But if it is a new pump it should provide a long life in civvy duty.
Damn, 150 bucks a piece is a very nice price, this Dutch guy is asking 750 without tax! :eek:
Found some more specs from a probably more reliable source:
http://www.duramaxhub.com/62-diesel.html
6.2L GM/DETROIT DIESEL SPECS
Engine:
Detroit 6.2L V-8 diesel
Years Available:
1982 to 1993 model years
Displacement:
6.2 liters, 379 cubic inches
Firing Order:
1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3
6.2L GM diesel cylinder numbers
Engine Block Material:
Cast iron
Cylinder Head Material:
Cast iron
Compression Ratio:
21.5 : 1
Bore:
3.98" (101 mm)
Stroke:
3.82" (97 mm)
Aspiration:
Naturally aspirated (no turbocharger)
Injection:
Indirect injection (IDI), Stanadyne DB2 rotary injection pump
Valvetrain:
Overhead valve (OHV), 2 valves per cylinder
Oil Capacity:
7 quarts w/ filter
Engine Weight:
650 lbs dry
Max Engine Speed:
3,600 rpm (4,000 rpm w/ no load)
Peak Horsepower:
Introduced at 130 hp @ 3,600 rpm, maximum offered during production was 143 hp @ 3,600 rpm. The United States Army's version was rated at 165 hp @ 3,600 rpm.
Peak Torque:
Introduced at 240 lb-ft A 2,000 rpm, the maximum offered rating during production was 257 lb-ft @ 2,000 rpm. The United States Army's version was rated at 330 lb-ft @ 2,100 rpm.
Still a 22HP difference between the civilian and military engine
DmaxMaverick
07-30-2017, 09:33
Yes, as I said. The specs are speculative at best. They're just foggy (marketing) numbers, and none of them meet reality. The IP isn't the only difference between civi and MIL engines, and you've not applied any of the upgrades necessary to sustain greater power (including the transmission).
Forget the "specs", what you have, and what "they" have. It's greener grass. You have a 1992 model, which is essentially a N/A 6.5L with a little less displacement. It's broken. Fix it. THEN consider messing with upgrades and mod's. Just installing a "more power" pump will likely leave you with a 25 year old boat anchor in a short period.
Yes, as I said. The specs are speculative at best. They're just foggy (marketing) numbers, and none of them meet reality. The IP isn't the only difference between civi and MIL engines, and you've not applied any of the upgrades necessary to sustain greater power (including the transmission).
Forget the "specs", what you have, and what "they" have. It's greener grass. You have a 1992 model, which is essentially a N/A 6.5L with a little less displacement. It's broken. Fix it. THEN consider messing with upgrades and mod's. Just installing a "more power" pump will likely leave you with a 25 year old boat anchor in a short period.
Hahahaha that's a pretty 'honest' reply man, I like that. :D
Guess I'll let them rebuild my current IP then, any idea what would be a reasonable price for that?
DmaxMaverick
07-30-2017, 10:01
Tough love, my friend. Fish, or cut bait. It's that time.
I have no idea what the current going rate is for a pump rebuild. Shop around. There should be a base cost for the labor, then additional for needed replacement parts. I never spent more than about $300, but that was with good cores not needing much. That was a while ago. I never waited until they self-destruct, and I don't think yours is at that point, yet. The advantage of having your pump rebuilt is, you shouldn't be paying for (expensive) parts you don't need. That depends on the shop, and the tech. Reman exchanges assume an average of failed parts, not considering your core's actual condition, which errs in their favor. That ups the cost quite a bit.
Not much space to shop around in these parts of the world.
It turns out a lot of shops don't know what the hell to do with American-made pumps like stanadyne. I asked a Bosch diesel service guy if he could take a look and he send me some place else.
The other place looks pretty good though, it's got everything you need even a dyno. http://buchli.nl/en
DmaxMaverick
07-30-2017, 10:35
I forgot you are on the other side of the world. That does limit your options, but it looks like you have some options. The link you posted looks to be an exchange service. Maybe call them and ask if they do individual rebuilds.
I forgot you are on the other side of the world. That does limit your options, but it looks like you have some options. The link you posted looks to be an exchange service. Maybe call them and ask if they do individual rebuilds.
I just read their whole site, they do testing, exchange and if you want they can rebuild your own pump but that will take longer.
If they have one of my type pumps on the shelf I'll let them exchange it, since this is my only car and I hate to do without it.
That would mean I have to rent a car and I hate modern cars. :mad:
Might as well let them test my injectors while they're at it.
DmaxMaverick
07-30-2017, 11:27
Good idea, testing the injectors. They should be tested or replaced with a new pump, in any case.
Hopefully I'll get a bit better mileage too after the exchange.
I now do about 15mpg (3,42diff, 33tires around 70mph highway speeds at 2100 rpm) and no towing.
I'll throw in one more bit about the military pumps with "hard parts"
A buddy of mine that builds these pumps says that the hard parts pumps that come in tend to be more "wiped out" than the conventional pumps. He prefers to use the standard parts.
Dvldog8793
08-02-2017, 07:31
Howdy
I have had two pumps rebuilt locally. The shop that does them for me is a 30+ year stanodyne/bosch full line diesel shop. They have a full injector and pump bench rack.
When they do injectors for me, they pressure match all eight. This might be something to consider having your shop do.
I have always had MY pumps rebuilt so that way I know where I am at. Also it is easier to reinstall.
Cost for my shop on my last pump was $490 for the pump and $20 each for my injectors.
Doing the pump and injectors will make a real seat-o-the-pants difference in power and drivability.
Ditto on the hard-parts pumps. My guys dont like them, they said that those pumps were never intended to be rebuilt.
Good luck!
I drove by that shop yesterday and asked them if they had time to check my pump.
He said he needed several days and that the bill would be well above €1000!!! And that was just for the pump, my injectors were not even included.
F THAT! My pump project is now on hold until I can find another pump for a reasonable price.
The truck runs fine except for the revs not being limited, I ain't gonna spend more then a thousand bucks just to fix a minor issue especially when it's for a car I'm not going to keep when our emigration plans pan out.
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