DD 3-53 Parts Info

[Higgins]

Goo day, and thanks you for letting me join. I am in the process of building a firewood processor (cuts, splits) in one motion. I picked up an un-used 3-35 military surplus (almost complete). It was configured for laying on it side. The model number is 5083-7001. Sn 3D-21119. I am struggling to locate the correct parts manual for this MO#. I have purchased a few parts and service manuals, however the do not address this particular model number, lots of other model numbers are available. The parts order plate is missing off the valve cover. According to the service and part manuals, the dealers have the info on the parts order plate by serial and model number. So far, no dealers are responding. Even contacted corporate. Now MTU.

I have two questions and can sure use expert direction.
#1-Does anyone know where or how to obtain the parts order plate?
#2- Can anyone direct me where to find the service and parts manuals for this model? Any help will be appreciated.
6897.
Thanks for your help

[DmaxMaverick]

Welcome aboard!

If it is a military service replacement engine, it is very likely to have application-specific appointments (not available in the civilian market, and unique to that application). Your best bet is to locate the military asset tag, then find the manual for the equipment it is used. Many/most mil-spec manuals for older equipment are available online, and usually cover everything, down to the nuts & bolts.

[CoyleJR]

Welcome to the DieselPage,

I have rebuilt many 53, 71 & 92 series DD motors and I have never seen an inline DD desined to lay on it's side. Look at the direction the oil dipstick points and that will tell you which way is down on the motor. There should be a long build sheet (metal) tag on the valve cover. That tag will tell you all about the motor. Additionally, if it was a military motor it could have a 24 volt starter. You have a good uncomplicated motor that is easy to maintain and will run forever. Books for a DD-53 should be pretty much the same for all of them.

Good luck
John

[Higgins]

Welcome aboard!

If it is a military service replacement engine, it is very likely to have application-specific appointments (not available in the civilian market, and unique to that application). Your best bet is to locate the military asset tag, then find the manual for the equipment it is used. Many/most mil-spec manuals for older equipment are available online, and usually cover everything, down to the nuts & bolts.


Thanks for the quick reply. I thought there was a reason I could not find anything on it. The 5038-7001 model designation is assigned to "Vehicular" from what I can find. There is no asset tag or valve cover parts tag.

I appreciate your input. Thanks

I have two step-sons who are heavy equipment diesel mechanics, once I get the missing parts they will assist (or I assist them more likely) to get the thing running.

[Higgins]

Thanks for you input. There is no tag or plate on the valve cover. It does have a 24 volt starter & alternator, you are correct. No big deal there, not going to run anything electrical, just us the alternator to charge the batteries.
The service manuals are pretty much generic, you are correct. The part number manual is specific to the 5083-7001 model. Thanks for your input.

[a5150nut]

Might try Jensales.com they might be of help

I remember the 671 inline Detroits came in 9 different configurations not counting left and right rotation.

[Higgins]

Thanks for the quick reply. I thought there was a reason I could not find anything on it. The 5038-7001 model designation is assigned to "Vehicular" from what I can find. There is no asset tag or valve cover parts tag.

I appreciate your input. Thanks

I have two step-sons who are heavy equipment diesel mechanics, once I get the missing parts they will assist (or I assist them more likely) to get the thing running.


Have looked everywhere including the library of congress and DOD service manuals and records for the parts manual and build to list for the 5038-7001 with no success. The application I will use the engine for a firewood processor, nothing special. A couple dealers sent me parts manuals that do not address the 5038-7001, and I was told there was no such designation.. took a pic of the MO/SM engravings on the block, I'm not misreading the ID. Since the configuration does not matter to me, can I assume going with the standard parts I need. Really frustrating when DD Corporate cannot help and sends you on wild goose chases...

Thanks for your consideration.

[DmaxMaverick]

You really need to identify the application, and perhaps the service and/or production dates. That engine configuration is unique. I've never seen one in the wild, although I don't know if I haven't. Going by the description, specification (of the DD 3-53), and the low profile configuration, the only thing that comes to mind may be an aircraft carrier tow tractor, specifically a variation of the MD-3. I have some experience with them, but have never been under the hood that I recall. The tow tractors I've seen were on the USS Forrestal in the mid 80's, but were used on most all the older carriers for decades. By the descriptions and (vague) specifications I could find lately, they were equipped with a ~100 HP Diesel, and they certainly sounded like a DD, or some 2-cycle Diesel, fueled with JP-5 or 8 (kerosene-based jet fuel). They were very low profile, for low center of gravity operation on a pitching flight deck and the ability to operate under aircraft wings. The powertrains, according to some "scale model" websites, were updated over the years, although I have no details on that.

As far as parts go, just speculating, the short block internals may be standard for the series, but the remainder would likely be unique. Turning an engine on it's side creates many unique conditions with lubrication (including lubricated components), cooling, and accessory systems.

[Higgins]

You really need to identify the application, and perhaps the service and/or production dates. That engine configuration is unique. I've never seen one in the wild, although I don't know if I haven't. Going by the description, specification (of the DD 3-53), and the low profile configuration, the only thing that comes to mind may be an aircraft carrier tow tractor, specifically a variation of the MD-3. I have some experience with them, but have never been under the hood that I recall. The tow tractors I've seen were on the USS Forrestal in the mid 80's, but were used on most all the older carriers for decades. By the descriptions and (vague) specifications I could find lately, they were equipped with a ~100 HP Diesel, and they certainly sounded like a DD, or some 2-cycle Diesel, fueled with JP-5 or 8 (kerosene-based jet fuel). They were very low profile, for low center of gravity operation on a pitching flight deck and the ability to operate under aircraft wings. The powertrains, according to some "scale model" websites, were updated over the years, although I have no details on that.

As far as parts go, just speculating, the short block internals may be standard for the series, but the remainder would likely be unique. Turning an engine on it's side creates many unique conditions with lubrication (including lubricated components), cooling, and accessory systems.


Thanks for all the info... valued much. The 3-53 is now upright. When I removed the fabricated oil pan from the side of the engine, there was no oil pick up tube or screen. There was a large JIC male (-16) sticking out of the front of the block just above the oil pan gasket surface. This was blocked off by a plate bolted to the block from the inside, so no oil was passing that way. There was a JIC 16 male coming out of the bottom of the old side mounted oil pan that was connected to the JIC with about 1" diameter custom bent pipe, out of the block that was blocked off. Also there is no place to mount an oil filter adapter to the block... every pic I've seen has it mounted to one of the sides or to the oil cooler itself... literally been over this block with a fine tooth comb, its not hiding behind the intake mfld or the starter or the fuel pump. There is what looks like an exterior pump of sorts mounted to the rear of the block over one of the blower plates. From there a 1" pipe runs down and into the block right behind the fuel pump opposite the bellhousing. Pics are worth a billion words.

[Higgins]

Would like to know where in the heck a oil filter would be mounted??? also is the pump looking item on the back of the block a pump, it has a jic 16 male coming out of it ?

[DmaxMaverick]

There will be NO oil filter mounted to the engine. That is a DRY SUMP engine. The oil is pumped (or gravity drained) OUT of the oil pan attached to the block. The application equipment will have an external engine oil reservoir, filter system, and likely a cooling system, and can be located anywhere near the engine. Not unlike that used on Harley-Davidson motorcycles.

[Higgins]

There will be NO oil filter mounted to the engine. That is a DRY SUMP engine. The oil is pumped (or gravity drained) OUT of the oil pan attached to the block. The application equipment will have an external engine oil reservoir, filter system, and likely a cooling system, and can be located anywhere near the engine. Not unlike that used on Harley-Davidson motorcycles.


Thanks. makes sense. So how does it build pressure? There is an attached oil cooler. Where may I tap into to route the oil through a remote filter? Maybe I'm missing something

[DmaxMaverick]

The attached oil pump pressurizes the oil to the engine. You will need an external oil reservoir of appropriate volume. A filter (if it had one, some didn't) may normally be part of that reservoir, but it can be placed at any point between the reservoir and oil pressure pump inlet. You may also need a scavenge (transfer) pump between the sump and reservoir, if gravity is insufficient to drain the sump while running. You DO NOT want oil accumulating in the sump.

[Higgins]

Thanks, sump is being referred to as the oil pan? I found an oil pan same type as on build sheet, one drain one JIC-16 male / one plug, coming out of the side. Also have a pick-up pipe and screen I can install and button to the JIC-16 male coming out of the front of the block, the one referenced earlier as being blocked off inside the block. Can the filter be under suction not pressure? Crude sketch attached. I really appreciate your expertise. 6951 Where the oil dumps into the block is just an open elbow not buttoned to anything. Make me wonder if the head will be getting oil?

[DmaxMaverick]

Unless and until you have more information on the engine, I do not recommend running it vertical. Many accommodations have been made to allow it to run horizontal, many you may not see, and may not be standard otherwise. The lubrication system may not allow for vertical oil drainage, or some areas may not get oil, at all.

The oil "sump" is just the area engine oil collects after leaving operation. A dry sump allows for a much more compact configuration, as the oil is contained and pressure pumped from another location, eliminating the need for a large container immediately below the engine.

No, I do not suggest installing the oil filter in a suction condition.

[Higgins]

Unless and until you have more information on the engine, I do not recommend running it vertical. Many accommodations have been made to allow it to run horizontal, many you may not see, and may not be standard otherwise. The lubrication system may not allow for vertical oil drainage, or some areas may not get oil, at all.

The oil "sump" is just the area engine oil collects after leaving operation. A dry sump allows for a much more compact configuration, as the oil is contained and pressure pumped from another location, eliminating the need for a large container immediately below the engine.

No, I do not suggest installing the oil filter in a suction condition.


Thanks again, I really appreciate it. I guess I'll leave it horizontal once I get the fuel lines, filters and such installed. I'll try and get a video of it once it's fired up. Thanks again

[arveetek]

You definitely have a very unique engine setup there: a horizontal Detroit 2 cycle with a dry-sump lubrication system. You're probably not going to find a whole lot of information on that kind of setup, unfortunately.

Here's some generic dry-sump info you might find helpful:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_sump

https://www.hagerty.com/media/maintenance-and-tech/how-dry-sump-oil-systems-work/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0criObHbihY

If you only have the engine and don't have the remote oil reservoir and pump, then it could be quite interesting trying to piece the oiling system together.

Good luck!

Casey

[Higgins]

Thanks for the links. I really thought I was getting a great deal.. Unused, 2 stroke, the HP needed, military surplus OTD $3500.00. Oh well, it's gona work one way or another.

[a5150nut]

You might find an old bus mechanic that might know a little about the horizontal engine. Busses used to run 6V71s horizontal. IIRC the 6V71 was configured 9 different ways not counting left or right rotation.
maybe here> https://www.facebook.com/groups/297505153763886/
i saw other places looking for old bus restoration

[Higgins]

Thanks everyone for you input. I have been able to determine the engine will run in the normal vertical configuration. There were no real special changes to the lubrication system, other than the goofy oil pan and the breather element was mounted 90 degrees from normal and there is no oil exit or enter ports for filtering. Removed it and placed it on the opposite side and is perfect. The fuel system is not intact and should be a great place to start. The sang now is tiring to determine where on the block I can tap into to bring pressurized oil to the filter, then back to engine. All configurations I see have the oil filter adapter as part of the oil cooler. The cooler on my engine does not have an oil filter adapter like in the drwg. There are three 1/8 NPTF ports on the left side of the block where I can add accessories (oil pressure gauge, oil temp etc.) but 1/8" port doesn't seem to be sufficient, would work, just not a lot of volume through the filter. My thought was to tap int one of the three 1/8" ports, run into the oil filter then back to engine, dumping into the oil pan that has two 3/4" NPT ports on the side. There are also two through wall ports 1/8" NFTF, and one 3/8-16 tapped blind hole in a confined configuration just above and next to the center 1/8" port. These two through wall are not going into the oil gallery as the three 1/8" mentioned above with a borescope. See attached sketches. Once I figure this out, I'll get a video of the monster coming to life... it's gona be cool.. Thanks again.

[Higgins]

Good day all and thanks for the help. I found a used oil cooler plate with a oil filter port, however it is just too long as it contacts the starter and is off the mounting holes a mile. Wasted $150.00 When I removed the oil cooler, I see there are two ports , I assume on is oil out and one is oil in. I also see the same ports on the other side of the block, only they are plugged with flush mount and no apparent way to remove them. Would I be able to run a filter head out of and into these ports if I can get the plugs out? I have the full 768 page service manual and don't see this topic anywhere. Again, thanks for any help. 6985

[DmaxMaverick]

Matching ports on an opposite side of a block (or head) are almost always cross-bores (internal connecting bores not possible or practical with casting). They are plugged because they've served their function and no longer needed. They may also have other internal plugs, blocking a connection. IF (big if) the bores are accompanied with threaded mounting holes, they may be usable, and certainly not if they have none. IF there is a mounting boss, AND the holes are connected (you can flow a fluid or air freely from one hole to the matching other, AND the fluid/air doesn't go where it shouldn't), you should be able to use them. Of course, you will have to plug the holes you aren't using. Your manual should show an alternate usage of these ports, somewhere, even if only an honorable mention, if they are intended to be used. It is also possible your manual does not include the casting series of the block you have, which may not include all of the updates to a later or unique casting (it would be part of an application manual, or a supplemental for that application).

[Higgins]

Thank you for the quick response. Appriciated

[Higgins]

Thanks for everyone's help and advice. It runs like a dream. Fired up first try... Now going into the firewood processor...
Was going to upload a video, not very upload savvy... Thanks all again.

[arveetek]

That's great to hear! Can you upload a video to YouTube and share the link? That's often the easiest way.

Casey

[Higgins]

Well, its running like a top... as soon as I can figure out to (have my granddaughter) upload the video, I'll share it. Looking for a radiator to cool the thing. (DD 3-53). Don't need one out of a semi. I see 3 and 4 row radiators for 6-8 liter diesels in pick-ups for ~$200.00. The DD 3-53 is 159 ci or 2.6 liter. Would one of these have the capacity to cool the 3-53? I have an electric fan and will fab a shroud. Thanks for the in-put.