6.5 haulin' and stallin'

[Reid]

252,000 miles on my 1995 6.5 turbo, it's a little tired, but I have replaced most problem parts including; fuel filter, oil sending unit, FSD replaced and relocated, new computer. Lift pump is working. It's been stalling at all speeds, idling or 75 mph and has gotten worse, and now it won't even start and is giving me a DTC 36 which is an injection pulse width error (response time long)? Injector pump finally?

[damork]

I've done what you've done under similar circumstances and it sure sounds like the pump. Now on my 5th pump, but it has been doing quite well. I put a pre-lift pump filter/water trap on it and I really think that has helped. Added an FSD cooler but I've never had a bad FSD, so not sure of it's benefits - it has always been the internal pump parts that failed.

The code 36 has been associated to FSD units, but I had that code twice and it was the fuel solenoid in the pump. I called Stanadyne tech support once on this and the guy I spoke to told me code 36 was usually related to very small amounts of contamination hanging up the fuel solenoid. You'll see it more with low fuel tank levels, less with full tanks and fuel lubricity additives help the problem, however it doesn't seem to go away once it starts.

[Reid]

Thanks for the input. If it turns out to be the injection pump, what kind of money would get me a rebuilt one?

[ucdavis]

I had similar symptoms. Began w/miss @ heavy fuel demand, then miss @ random fuel demand condition, then occasional stall, then ran for short time then stall, then couldn't get out of the parking lot, then couldn't get out of the parking stall. Checked & cleared codes each time- got 35/36 (both sometimes, or either sometimes) along w/sporadic 18. It was the pump.
Just cuz it's a pain to do, try a known good fsd first, but don't be disappointed if it doesn't work. When I did that, it worked for about 2 miles, then same symptoms; don't know if fsd's go slowly bad such that the old fsd was out of OEM spec but still operative w/a good IP or if the 2 miles was a fluke.
Let us know what happens. Good luck.
p.s. if you swap out the IP, there is a good R&R guide for sale on the Join Us page of TDP that covers the proceedure. Don't recall if they say to crack the injection lines open @ injectors, but I'll do that the next time; it was a pain not doing it the first time w/the inflexible injection line pipes in my way to get the new IP on. Also, use a small piece of scotch tape to fix the IP gasket to block so it doesn't flop around requiring a 3rd or 4th hand.

[Reid]

Have you heard of a FSD that is mounted on the "cooler" going bad before?

[tom.mcinerney]

Sure, just less often. As far south as you are, you'd need the cooler at the AC output. Underhood gets too hot in 'soak' after turn off engine.

[Reid]

Okay, I've got a bddy with a an FSD that I can test out. I got an 88 trouble code too, along wing with the 36. The 88 is supposed to be a top dead center offset error. Is this related to an injection pump?

thanks
Amateur day

[Reid]

Anyboody recommend changing injector pump their selves or should I have a pro do it?

thanks

[Turbine Doc]

The swap isn't that tough, but setting timing can be if you have never done it, maybe you can replace it and then take somewhere to have it timed will save some labor cost

[Reid]

I already started on it, I've got the intake manifold off and all the fuel lines disconnected and unbolted the 3 bolts on the pump . Now though, I don't know what to do next as far as getting the pump out. How do you disconnect it from the block on the inside?

thanks

[ucdavis]

Its at this point the TDP R&R guide would be a REALLY big help. But I'll try to pinch hit:
Remove oil filler tube & neck from front of engine. Inside the hole, you are looking at the gear that drives the IP, and there are 3 bolts that screw thru the gear into the drive hub on the IP; remove these & the IP will slide out rearwards. To get at all 3 bolts, you have to rotate the engine; I did this by putting a socket/long ratchet on a lower pulley bolt & tugging slightly & slowly till the next bolt appeared.
New IP goes in in reverse order. There's an alignment pin in the hub that aligns w/hole in the gear so the IP only goes in one way. If injection lines are not cracked @ injectors (but don't remove 'em) the lines are your worst enemy in reinstalling.

[Reid]

thanks a lot UCDAVIS, that's a big relief. i was getting frustrated. i did order a manual, unfortunately it hasn't arrived yet. should have a report for you in a week or so. actually, you seem to know a good bit about this, so where would you buy a new injector pump?

thanks you very much

[ucdavis]

There are 4 model numbers for this pump, latest is DS4-5521, and it will incorporate latest improvements in internals. Make sure that's the one you get as there are old "new" units floating around, & the reason for the upgrades was reliability.
I got mine from an outfit in Colorado, forget the name, for about $750 plus shipping. US Diesel Parts or something like that. I didn't know about TDP when I went thru the R&R, or I woulda tried KennedyDiesel.com or heathdiesel.com, both reputable supliers. Heath's rebuilts get good reviews here & he'll sell you one w/out the FSD mounted so you can easily do a remote mount on a heatsink, he'll sell you just the pump w/out an fsd... Kennedy sells the only really good extension harness I've seen if you want to put the fsd up front of the radiator bulkhead, Heath's is kinda MM (sorry Bill) as it uses a connector that uses a zip tie to hold it to the IP wiring harness. I made my own, but it was stupidly time consuming. You can also just lengthen the wires on the new IP harness to place the fsd forward, but then if you change the IP you get to do that again to the new IP harness, & if you had to send the replacement IP back for warranty, you've messed up their harness. The separate drop-in harness is plug & play. Remote mounting whether on the intake manifold (doesn't require a harness extender) or up front or in an AC duct or inside the airbox (lotsa theories here on TDP) absolutely requires a good heatsink. Kennedy has one, Heath does (calls it an FSD Isolator) and there's a good one sold on ebay. I used a piece of 12x9x.25 aluminum (similar to Heath's) which drops 30 degrees+ off fsd temp. Remote mounting gets fsd electronics out of the heat soak build-up when you shut down the engine & therefore coolant flow.

[ 09-25-2003, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: ucdavis ]

[Reid]

I mounted an FSD cooler on the intake manifold, but it still seems to heat up pretty good. you've been a tremendous help UCDAVIS, thanks a lot.

[Reid]

Hey UCDAVIS, I am just getting around to those 3 bolts on the gear to get the injector pump off. You mentioned a socket and long ratcht on a lower pulley to get the motor to turn. Could you elaborate on that a little? I not really grasping the concept.

Thanks a bunch