Insulating for more power

[Camarrow]

I searched for some results on this but found none. Has anyone insulated there inlet piping on there turbo system to prevent under hood heating of the intake air? Do you think this will make a difference? I know all compressed air is heated but how much with a low amount of boost like on the banks system? In my jegs I found a kit to insulate your turbo. The kit claims to improve turbo effiency. Anyone tryone? Lastly on the crossover pipe has anyone seen a noticeable gain by heat wrapping or coating? On a gas engine they say every 10deg is equal to a 1% gain in HP. I don't know if this still applies to diesels but are old John Deere 4440 (466 turboed no intercooler)sure liked cool nights as compared to hot days.

[gmctd]

Your Banks kit, with the unwastegated turbo, will benefit from cross-over pipe wrapping.

Wrap the intake tubing only if you have a charge air cooler installed, where heat from compression has been removed.

[britannic]

Insulating the crosspipe and turbine housing were key ingredients in the high output "Britannic" 6.2L.

Don't insulate the turbo compressor housing,or the turbo downpipe (the heat shield for component protection is OK). The resoning behind this, is that allowing the heat to radiate from the downpipe, will assist in allowing the exhaust to escape more readily.

[gmctd]

If your inlet ducting\air filter is plumbed thru the radiator support, taking advantage of that high pressure cool air, wrapping to the compressor inlet can help, but exhaust-quality wrapping is not necessary.

Something with fiberglass on foil, like Ford-type insulation is suitable.

I used that on my rig, but repeated r&d operations eventually shredded it.

More to come, later.

[NH2112]

Wouldn't insulating the exhaust manifolds and crossover pipe be a GOOD idea, since heat is energy and every bit of heat you lose before the turbo is energy that can't be used to generate more power?

[gmctd]

Absolutely, and cuts down on radiated heat - it's just a lot more difficult.
But, as the 6.2L is no great generator of heat, the benefits of higher exhaust velocity would make the extra effort worthwhile.

Main caveat in exhaust wrapping is fire - any valve cover, injector, etc, leaks accumulate in the fabric.
Requires constant vigilance in detail.

[NH2112]

I have an ATS turbo I'm going to be installing on a 6.2L and the plan right now is to have the exhaust manifolds and crossover pipe ceramic-coated or possibly aluminized, both for heat retention and corrosiion protection. I'm thinking of having the exhaust outlet elbow done as well, but more for corrosion protection than insulation.

[britannic]

To summarize: insulate all of the exhaust gas carrying components up to and including the turbine housing to ensure maximum heat retention. Make sure all of the post compressor pre-intercooler piping isn't insulated to ensure maximum heat rejection.

[NH2112]

I guess I was victim to the old cranial-rectal inversion, because when I first read this thread and replied to it, I thought it said NOT to insulate pre-turbo. :confused:

[gmctd]

Be a shame to hide those ceramic-coated manifolds, but wrapping them would benefit an un-wastegated turbo - more heat = greater expansion = higher exhaust gas velocity thru the turbine = quicker response.

It's just very impractical for a street or work truck, usually rode hard and put up wet, because of the fire hazard.

Mine's clean, but I clean the engine only every three months, which is about the time oil from the CDR starts dripping from the bottom of the compressor.

Good wrenching on your project, Phil, and don't forget to post some pictures.

[NH2112]

Right now the plan is for the project engine to be mildly warmed-over...ATS turbo with 4" exhaust, ceramic-coated 19:1 pistons, high-volume water pump, cooling mods, and maybe a Duramax fan/clutch if it'll work on a V-belt water pump. I have a humvee intake manifold but it's a little short so the cold- and hot-side hoses to and from the turbo don't line up properly. Maybe I can have an adapter made out of aluminum and TIG-welded to the intake to give it the extra inch it needs, and also change the holddown bolt location to 12/6 o'clock, from the humvee manifold's 3/9 o'clock positions.


Right now I'm waiting to hear back from ATS about how much play is permitted in the turbo shaft. It seems very slightly excessive even after a rebuild, but I suppose it would depend on oil flow over the bearings.

[gmctd]

The DMax and all 6.5 water pumps\fan\clutch assemblies have been counter-clockwise rotation since about 1990, so that option is right out for v-belt drive.

Peninsular has a 110gph water pump for the v-belt series, as does Bill Heath on the HD fan clutch.
Napa carries the same clutch - all it takes to decrease engagement temperature is minor adjustment of the thermo-coil.

Done it - works - right now at 185deg (too early - adjusted with 5-blade fan) need to tweak back to 200deg.

Chrysler offered a 20" 7-blade HD fan\clutch assembly by GM, but not listed in the GM parts heirarchy.

Got one on my truck - works.

If you plan to run a charge-air cooler, the manifold heighth difference should be of little concern.

Far as the play on the turbo shaft, it should be checked immediately after shut-down, so the bearings have full oil-interface.

Full-floating sleeve bearings will indicate twice the clearance of pressed bearings, even when fully lubed.

Hope this helps, Phil.

[ 03-14-2004, 05:58 AM: Message edited by: gmctd ]

[Peter J. Bierman]

Phil, did you receive the TD60 manual?

Peter

[NH2112]

JD,

The turbo bearings are full-floating, so I guess I'm going to send the turbine housing out with the manifolds and crossover pipe to get ceramic-coated, then run it and hope it holds together.


Peter,

I haven't received the manual yet, but having mailed packages to and from Europe before I'm not too concerned about the time it's taken. I figure I'll give it another week or 2 then start thinking something went wrong. Thanks!

[Peter J. Bierman]

Phil, just want you to know that we DID have the beer, we could not wait :D

Let me know when the package arrives.

Peter

[NH2112]

Peter,

I got the package today, so maybe your asking about it is what caused it to show up LOL

I was wondering what that huge belching sound was coming from the east about 2 weeks ago! :D

[Peter J. Bierman]

Correct, that was us :D

Do you like the manual?
Have fun with it ;)

Peter

[NH2112]

Well, if the engine is put together as well as that manual is, I'll be smokin' Cummins-powered trucks all day long! The only thing I didn't see in there was a torque/HP graph, but the best way to find that out is to drive the truck :D