4500/5500 Clutch behind "hot" DMAX?

[GMCTRUCK]

Do the new medium duty trucks with ZF6 use a stronger clutch than HD trucks? If so it could be a simple fix for the real "hot" Duramax trucks that are spinning clutches under extreme power levels. Just curious because last time I spoke to a "box" builder who was trying a "race only" package, he said it was immediately limping Allys and spinning clutches on ZFs and he did not know of any other clutches yet.

[hdmax(mike)]

Ford super duty also use the ZF6 6 speed transmission. Just maybe things could word there. :eek:

[Colorado Kid]

From looking over the information I could find about the 4500-5500 trucks I don't see any reason to think they have a different dual-mass flywheel and clutch combination than the 2500HD-3500.

The F*rds have been having plenty of problems of their own with the dual-mass flyweel on 7.3 powered trucks. They haven't been having too much trouble holding power upgrades :D .

The 6.0 may change that story though.

Aftermarket clutches for PSD's exist. Unfortunately their are at least 40 times as many 6 speed PSD's as 6 speed D-maxes out there. I hope our day will come.

[Wally]

Speaking of dual mass flywheels. Does any one know where I might find an exploded view of one? Particularly the one used behind the Dmax.
I have never seen one of these animals and right now my minds eye is picturing some type of unit that is put together like a harmonic balancer. I've heard them described as having springs so that makes me think it looks something like a clutch disk. Whatever it is I sure would like to see what it looks like. Especially since my truck is beginning to feel like it's gonna need one pretty quick.

What are the advantages of running one? Soak up torque spikes? If so why can't that be done with the clutch disk?
If it is eliminated what are the consequences? Does it affect the balance of the engine? Will the harmonic balancer have to be changed to match a solid flywheel?
Was this just a cheaper alternative to a multi-disk clutch pak?

[Maverick]

The advantages to having a dual mass is for balance. I think diesels vibrate to much for a dual mass to last real long. Better for a gasser I think. I 5sp clutch had to replace in my 96 CC dually with a 6.5td. I had a standard clutch put in place of a new dual mass. Its hard to explain what it looks like. Go to a tranny shop. They can show an exploded view to you. Anyway because I didn't put another dual mass in I had to have a big counter weight added to the back side of my 5th gear in the tranny. Its a big nut to get off and get torqued right. Results after the replacement were it seemed to take longer to get up to speed (maybe due to more rotating mass in the tranny) but I held speed and kept up RPM alittle better.

[Wally]

OK I got off my lazy butt and looked for myself and yes it does look similar to a clutch disk and from what I can gather on a DMF setup the clutch disk no longer requires the springs.
It is only used or mostly used on diesel engines and is there to absorb and counteract the torsional spikes that a diesel engine produces.
One thing that will tear one up in heartbeat is an engine that has a power unbalance of some type like an unhealthy injector or a low compression cylinder or a misadjusted valve.
Kind of makes me wonder if the partial misfire that I have been trying to get my dealer to acknowledge has something to do with my flywheel failing so soon?
The benefits of a dual mass outweigh it's problems and it is beneficial to our drivelines to keep them in.
My only remaining question is did GM use the Borg-Warner brand or did they use one from ZF-Sachs? I would tend to trust ZF to build a better one than BW.

On Edit: One other thing. Most DMF designs use a friction ring which allows the driven flywheel to rotate completely independant of the driving ring and sometimes a slipping clutch in a DMF equipped truck is not the clutch at all but the friction ring.

[ 12-17-2002: Message edited by: Wally ]</p>

[IndigoDually]

The only d/m flywheels that I have seen are keyed together with rubber blocks separating them. When the blocks go bad or disintegrate there is metal to metal contact. There is no possibility of "slipping the flywheel"

BTW a leaking rear main seal destroyed the rubber in my flywheel.

John