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Ok I have herd so many things about how on road and off road are the same thing, with off road having die added. I have also herd that home heating oil is the same as off road fuel, and that they are 2 different things all together, with the diesel being more refined. Does any one here know what the real story is? With the price of fuel getting close to stupid I am going to follow in with a few friends and start running the off road stuff. I just want to get this all figured out in-case home heating and diesel are different stuff since they are running home heating oil.
Thanks, Kevin
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I am not a chemical engineer, but other than the die, I understand the off-road(no tax with die), and the regular (highway and clear) are the same. I am not familiar with the home heating oil. My cousin has a heating system in his home that uses diesel. Naturally he chooses the cheaper off-road. They will tell you that the off-road fuel will ruin the expensive modern diesel engines. All I know is that it does not bother the VERY expensive Caterpillar diesel engines. You don't think all that construction equipment is burning the taxed fuel, do you? But most states, it is illegal to use the non-taxed fuel for the highway.
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Kevin,
The biggest risk with using off road diesel is getting caught. :eek: The State police do check and the fines are big ($10k). Not worth it IMO. [img]smile.gif[/img]
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There are a couple different grades of diesel and gas oil. We all know of Off Road diesel and Diesel that the everage person buys. Off Road diesel does have a red dye added to it and is usually a little higher in Sulfur content. If you intend to run it in your truck I would recommend changing your filter more regularly. And alternate tanks between Reg and OR.
Gas oil is a higher viscosity then diesel. Although some home heaters use diesel as fuel, gas oil is also used.
Kerosene is somewhere between Diesel and Naphtha. Kero is also added to diesel to lighten it up. High grade Kero is also used as jet fuel.
Last I looked diesel was $1.59 a gallon down here at the cheepest place. I have seen it up to $1.87 in some places. Offroad diesel was $1.16 yesterday if you buy it in bulk (1000gal.).
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If You get away with it, off-road is the way to go. Home heating oil is lower in cetane than diesel.
Just remember, it takes a long time to remove all of the dyed fuel from your tank. A buddy of mine that's a heavt equip. mechanic was having problems a week ago driving home from a job. He was changing fuel filters thinking it was a jelling problem(5 degrees outside). He had a can of off-road fuel that he was using to prime the filters, after running a while he changed the filters again and there was still red fuel in the bottom of the filters. If you do run into problems it won't take a genius to stumble across your dyed fuel and probably deny a warranty claim.
John
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I'm sorry, this won't be a popular post, but I really see no reason to even DISCUSS this, let alone do it! If the price is up say $.20/gallon and you add 20 gallons at fill up, that is $4. If that $4 is going to break you. :rolleyes:
Sure the prices are going up. I haven't seen what I am paying, as the pump I use is SO old that it only reads gallons delivered. We (customers) insert a key into a bank of meters on the pump and at the end of the month the meter is read and the price is averaged out.
The penalties far outweigh the savings, PLUS if most dealer find red fuel in your tank, I'm certain they will not hesitate to void your warranty. Remember, you cannot control when you break down some times...
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The comapny I work for has a lot of equipment and we run whatever we have in tthem. Off Road or highway diesel desn't matter to them. Like jbplock said, the biggest concern is the fuzz catching you. They were checking a lot for a while around here. The fines are very steep. I think it's about $5,000 plus a certain amount per gallon in your tank.
Now on the other side of that. I think I've come up with a sneaky way of using the OR diesel without getting caught. The po-po usually dips the tank with a stick to see if there's a red dye. Well all you would have to do is get an auxiliary tank in the bed and keep the regular tank with the green diesel. Run an auxiliary fuel line from the aux tank in the bed through the bed wall and down to a T or Y in the stock fuel line before you get to the fuel pump and there you have it. Of course, I'd never do such an illegal thing ;) . But in theory it would work.
Reb [><]
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Nice thought, Reb, but the old "dip a clear tube and look at the color" trick is falling by the wayside. These days the red dye has an ultraviolet content and they use a 12 volt blacklight. If your filler neck shows any glow from addition of off-road fuel, you are cited. Rumor has it that the residue from using off-road will remain in the filler neck for some time afterwards. Let your conscience be your guide and keep $10,000 in your checkbook unless you like orange coveralls, PB&J on a paper plate and a bunk-buddy! :eek:
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What Idle said.That was a fuuny post I'm still lol.
Blake :D
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I agree with Idle. One point though...the OR fuel wopuld never enter the stock fuel tank. You fill the auxiliary tank, which is legal. Put a cheap hand pump on there and say you use it to fill up your tractor or something. My work truck as this setup type of tank and pump for filling our skytracks and such. I personally don't have $10K that I can set on fire so I'll hold off.
Reb [><]
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I agree with the legal and warranty reasons not to even bother with it.
Diesel on road - Low sulfer mandatory and additives.
Diesel off road - maybe low sulfer but not mandatory depends on the refinery it's pulled from. Additives may not be the same as on road. And of course the pretty red color.
Fuel oil - Different grades. #1 and #2 fuel oil equate to their diesel counter parts except little to no additives and can be the higher sulfer allowed in off road diesel.
When I hauled fuel prior to the low sulfer mandate the only fuel we ran in our trucks was #2 fuel oil.
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very interesting.........what about a little old cookin oil...........head to mcdonalds filter and fill up......... :D hey reb what do ya use those skytracks for?......we prefer lulls......think Ill stick with the green on road version..........but I do have both.......as for warrenty unless it specifically states onroad whose to say my dmax is not a farm vehicle if I take it to the dealer on a rollback or lowboy as long as the offroad diesel is low sulfur..........large construction sites and mills have vehicles that never leave the site.........the correct valving with off the shelf parts coud easilly allow a tool box type tank to switch into the tank side of the fuel cooler. You might have to add a back flow preventer but I imagine the swtitching device (like on my duel tank fords)would already have this............sounds like a lot of trouble.. the return on investment would take a while to recoup........I drive 50k per year at 15mpg(avg) that would be 3333 gallons times .50 cents........hmmmmm.....$1600.00.......maybe not such a bad idea........do ya think a trooper could get a dmax fuel filter off without a wrench or would he have to have a search warrent to open a fuel filter bleed screw........when it gets to $2.50 per gal Ill think this one thru again :D :D dave.......what about natural gas vehicles?........hoot, are they gonna tax your propane? :D
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My mom has a neighbor who's been running home heating oil for years in all his diesels including Mercedes, Volkswagens, Pugueots, and Toyotas. He is a member of the Mercedes million mile club with his 67 220D. He told me there is virtually no difference in the fuels other than a higher content of low sulfer kerosene in diesel to pass the fed regulations. To verify this I work with a guy who's best friend is a Mobil chemist and this is what he said. The difference is that there is a 7% to 12% ls kerosene added to #2 oil and no color to make diesel for the road. He said that #2 does have more sulfur than diesel but sulfur does a couple good things for your motor that diesel does'nt. The sulfur helps lubricate your valves and that sulfur is what makes a match burn hotter. Therefore, there is more btu's in #2 oil giving you more power and better fuel mileage. He did say in older vehichles with poor cooling systems that they would run hotter. Also, he said a vehichle running dyed fuel should still qualify for warranty because there is lots of ranch and farm trucks that don't see road use and are'nt required to use the taxed fuel. I have a friend who always filled his truck up with his farm fuel and did have a fuel pump issue and the dealer sent out for a fuel analysis and it came back completly acceptable for the motor's use. He also said the cetane level is the same, 45. Just thought you guys would like to know.
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I know this doesn't apply to you guys south o' the 49th, but this is how it works up here in B.C.
I phoned my supplier to confirm what I already was fairly sure of. We don't have two grades of diesel. But winter diesel is cut with kerosene to thin it out. On road, off road and home heating oil is exactly the same thing and is all low sulfur. The off road fuel that he puts in my tank, comes without dye. He adds the dye(when he remembers) to my bulk tank. We ARE permitted to use off road(dyed fuel)on the road in our agricultural vehicles. I guess we're just special ;)
Kev
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Here's a good website that explains most of your questions. http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuel...el/L2_5_fs.htm
Incidentally - and I don't want to start another argument as previously - but in Maryland, if you own or work on a farm and you use your truck on the farm, plus you do not use more than 2000 gallons on the highway, you can get special written permission from the comptroller to use off-road (non-taxable) diesel on the road. You then have to keep track of on-road (taxable) usage and pay the road taxes with your income tax. I'm sure other states have similar rules. My parents have been legally doing this since 1949. I found the law (after the previous argument) on the MD government website.
Joe
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Well it ****es you off to get riped off, just filled up the dmax, reg gas here in harrisburg pa was $ 1.55 diesel was $ 1.87 and cheaper to refine. I am using on road diesel but would not blame anyone for using off road!! If I had a storage tank at home i think I would start using it. I know they charge more because of the Tractor Trailers hauling 70,000 down the road but the diesel pumps with the small nozzle should not be taxed the same just not fare.
I hate to say it but I think it's going to go up a lot more.
Back in 1970 the gas companies ripped us off the government even finally came out 10 years later and admitted it but they still let them do it!!
Just had to add my 2cents as this really makes me MAD!!
[ 02-22-2003: Message edited by: Brucec ]</p>
