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Srubrn,
I am sure to be one of many that greatly appreciate the efforts you are putting forth on behalf of all.
There is no doubt more than on way to skin this cat.
The point is the deed must be done and you are one of several doing it.
Thanks again for all your effort and information.
-KISMIF
Kimif,
Thanks and your welcome!!
John, I am no expert of fuel filtering but am very familar with hydraulic systems. The larger micron filter is always the first in series to stop the big stuff. We had several systems that uses 2 micron filters. Later! Lone Eagle
[ 02-07-2003: Message edited by: Lone Eagle ]</p>
My comment was not intended to offend anyone. After all, I'm among this group of enthusiastic amateurs. I meant only to point out that John and George are the people here who have the years of experience in this area, and the ones with professional reputations on the line. I, too, appreciate the efforts of srubrn, trace, and the rest. Peace.
Todd off his soapbox- me on mine.
As I said earlier, my fuel filter is working fine as well.
My GTech isn't telling me the truck is any faster or slower but the fuel mileage is getting better almost every week it seems. Now 5400 miles.
I drove 240 miles round trip today up I95 from Daytona north of Jacksonville and back, cruise set, trying to go 80 as often as traffic would allow and my on board computer said 18.4 avg. I have to love this.
My own calcs tell me the computa is pretty close.
I expect that when this filter begins to clog my boost gauge at WOT will fall off and my Gtech will also speak up and tell me hello.
Love the GTech too!!!
If and when this happens I will tell all.
Be it known there is no ego issue here. If I find a problem with my approach I will let you all know. As my yet un-met e-communication friend Todd has said, I sell nothing. I stand to gain nothing.
I spent +40g's for this truck. I will not let a $130, $330, or $530 fuel filter be a issue in my mind.
If JK's filter proves out to be the best solution I will give AMEX a ride on his train.
And for sure- I would not ever try to lead all of you down a rosey path into a pile of crap.
Thank you in advance for reading. [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]
To the moderators-
I just love the way these little icons stick their tongues out and go yyyeeh... ??? you know!
[ 02-07-2003: Message edited by: TraceF ]</p>
I'm not going to get into this much more until I get samples from others that back mine up. The one common thing that I have seen with the exception of Greg L's and my samples is an INCREASE in the amount of dirt AND water post separator! :eek:
George sent me some interesting data from a PSD in which the OE setup did a very good job, but the addition of a Dahl system increased the particle count. He has also mentioned recalls on Stanadyne filter elements beyond the one reported by Sruburn (Todd).
BTW, the way that I have this set up, one could plumb either way. Pre or Post OEM. Moving on to engine oil bypass filtration...
[ 02-07-2003: Message edited by: kennedy ]</p>
I plan to get JK’s filter when its ready but I was also still thinking of installing the Dahl 100 (with heater) I already have (once it warms up around here that is). I bought the hose and fittings and was planning to mount it in the same position as Todd’s Stanadyne. The Dahl 100 has a 2-micron nominal (beta 50) cellulose filter and the de-pressureizer cone water separator that’s supposed to remove virtually all water (according to Baldwin). Since the DAHL is not as fine a filter as either the OEM or JK’s , and has a low-pressure drop (.75 inHg), seems like it wouldn’t hurt to have a little more margin. The DAHL is also a very good water separator and would provide some extra defense to a load of bad fuel with more water than the additive can handle. Is this overkill? Any thoughts? [img]smile.gif[/img]
Don't understand the first paragraph in your last post JK. :confused:
This seems to say tests are done pre and post seperator and the element is making more water and dirt.
I am beginning to see some of the logic of a post oem filter although I still favor it being where I have it now. Having said that I acknowledge that these Stan filters we are discussing are widely used in all types of applications as a 'final' filter.
But- for my purpose, the 2-mic filter is the way I chose to go. The goal as I said earlier was ease of maintenence and clean and dry as possible fuel going into the oem systems, including the oem filter. The Stan rep's assurance that I would get decent life from the element was part of my decision.
This Stan filter is a breeze to change compared to the oem and if this has to be done roadside, the replacement element has a drain cock integrated. You don't even have to change the bowl until you are home and ready. We are talking 2 or 3 minutes tops. It doesn't install like the Racor or a typical spin on, it goes up and has a capture sleeve that twists a half turn and click locks. Pretty smart in my view and no tools needed.
I have been poking around under my truck trying to imagine where JK will put that assembly and as one poster already pointed out, there is a spot below and infront of the air box that may be able to accomodate it with some modifications.
Like the rest of you I can't wait to see it installed.
As a side note, after installing my Stanadyne, I left the oem in place about 300 miles, long enough to be sure I didn't have leaks at my flares, etc. I was prepared to fill the interruption in my fuel line with hose and clamps if necessary.
The Stan install went fine so at 5k miles I changed the oem. I have now cut it open and can send pictures to anyone who wants to see them. There was about 1/2 teaspoon of water in the bottom of it (I had never drained it) and no visual residue between the pleats.
I am establishing a baseline to measure the next oem replacement against and time will tell me what the Stan picks up and looks like under the same scrutiny.
More to come...
[img]smile.gif[/img]
[ 02-08-2003: Message edited by: TraceF ]</p>
Trace F,
To summarize here:
Johnny C had a bacteria colony so he was counting dead bodies and is not a good test subject.
Sruburn had a defective filter element the first time, and now is looking to see if there may be room for improvement in his sampling technique as the correct filter also yielded a high count. Not sure about the water this time.
Another fellow did a Dahl system install and had a rise in particle count as well. He investigated and first found air (and dirt)leaks into his Dahl mount. Once these were fixed, counts came down a bit, but were still high. I believe the finger is now being pointed at internal leaks in the Dahl. This guy was SO thorough, that he removed and cleaned his tank prior to installing. He is an engineer for a MAJOR auto parts mfr.
I've also seen reference by George to Wix? filters releasing lots of particles when installed new. I guess what I'm trying to say is after seeing all this, I think that I am VERY fortunate to have gotten the results that I did on a freshly machined filter base!!!
Just a word of thanks to John, George, Todd, and Trace and everyone who's contributed to our knowledge for your hard work. I'm just one of the geese in the 'V' honking encouragement to the leaders here. I had to replace the fuel pump on my 97 6.5l TD at 80k and saw what that cost - and that was a relatively low pressure system. I'm very concerned about fuel quality and potential damage to my Dmax fuel system. I'm reading your posts with great anticipation and plan on going with the system that appears to do the best job for us.
Thanks from all of us who stand to benefit from the work of you pioneers. If you ever pass my way, there's a beer (well, OK, more than one) in the fridge in the heated garage for you.
Take Care - Don
Got you now JK- this forum is so long running I have forgotten many of the details. Thanks for clarifying.
Well I have been following this fuel filter problem for quite some time now, months! Has anyone cane up with a fix yet? If so where can I get one installed?
Thanks
Bruce,
There are a couple of solutions but all have not been proven by fuel analysis yet. It should not be long before you have a couple of choices. I have some fuel samples I took today ready to go. If UPS had not lost the last then we would have results on the Stanadyne FM-100. If the results come back positive I am going to send AVLube one sample to qualify the results.
Everybody else,
Stanadyne sent me a case of Stanadyne additive for my troubles. I have used it because it was free. I can tell you that there is a lot more water in the glass bowl at the bottom of the FM-100 with, than without. When I do send a sample to AVLube, we will see the differene in the before fuel filter sample and the after with the additive in relation to water content. George says it will be the same, I think. We'll see!!
Stanadyne has been great with me so far and I have been dealing with one of their engineers and the head guy for Marketing for the whole world.
One more thing. I will be glad when this is over. My wife thinks I have changed my cologne to Ode Le Diesel. For all of you who love the smell. This $h&t stinks.
JK,
Thanks for the info on the DAHL install... I guess I'll put mine on ebay and just wait for your filter...
[img]smile.gif[/img]
Hey Todd-
It was interesting the comments from 56NOMAD back about 20 posts or so. Sounds like you are dealing with someone pretty high up at Stanadyne.
Does he think we are using the right approach?
The Stanadyne tech I spoke to was pretty confident sounding.
It will be interesting to see when one of our filters begins to show some fuel restriction.
Yeah, he said it would work just fine. It only makes sense that a 2 micron filter will get stopped up sooner than a 30 micron filter. I do believe the 2 micron will last long enough. I plan to change mine every oil change anyway. The replacement element is only $12. I have seven filters left. The great news is that your OEM will only have to be changed maybe once a year. It should not be getting very dirty anymore. I am send those newest samples off tommorrow via UPS.
Hello George, John, TraceF and Todd,
Lets assume the worst case with a 2 micron "pre-filter"
It is installed like Trace and Todd have done........ and we
get lazy and don't change the filter regularly and it clogs up.
1. What are the short term and possible long term downsides?
2. What error codes will be thrown when the fuel can't pass this
primary "pre-filter"?
3. By then changing this filter will the error codes be corrected and erased
without having to take it to the dealer?
4. Other than losing power with a clogged fuel filter...is there a chance for
any permanent costly damage down the line of components?
Simple, don't get lazy!!! Change it with your oil filter change!!!
:D come on Todd..... That's how to avoid the problem, but still doesn't
answer my questions. I put the questions out to weigh any possible
downsides to a 2 micron "pre-filter". If in fact the only real issue is
a loss of power when and if this filter should get clogged, then
I think your prototype has a lot of merit for those of us who
are looking at getting this project on our trucks. I really do
appreciate all the work you guys are doing for the benefit of
our members. Thanks.