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Regarding Dodge & Ford. That is a very good question.. They have the same high injector pressures, thus the same need for ultra-clean fuel and fuel filters capable of doing same. I have not visited those sites lately but would very like to develop data for those installations.
I am fairly certain that they probably do not have adequate fuel filtration. Every time I have visited the sites I see numerous posts regarding injector change-outs, problems..
George
George,
Who presently makes such a filter that we can use or install? I got 21000 miles on my truck and I want to hurry up and do something.
Do you think this filter GM is coming up with will be a TSB?
Todd
The Racor unit works great and replacement filters are reasonable. I use the 2 micron on my 6.5TD and it removed 94.6% of the 2 micron and larger particles and 96.4% of the 5 micron and larger particles. Plus these have a built-in heater as well. Give me a call.
Greg
Another good filter/separator is the Baldwin DAHL 100 (also marketed by AMSOIL). It's rated at 60 GPH and .76 inHg flow resistance. It also comes with an optional heater and uses inexpensive 2-micron replaceable elements. (http://www.baldwinfilter.com/products/dahl.html)
I bought it for my 6.5 (about $100 from Westfleet.com) but never got around to installing it so I'll be installing it on my new D/A. Looks like it will mount on the frame rail in front of the fuel cooler but I haven't decided how to best tap into the fuel line. Per George's comment that the Bosch pump can draw 60 inHg I think a need some pretty good hose and fittings. Anyone have any suggestions?
Hey everybody,
Anybody know anything about the Luberfiner LFF3786 which is listed as a replacement filter for our trucks. It is 39.99 at Autozone marketed under the Deutsch name? I know Luberfiner is owned by Champion Labs. Might be worth checking into.
Tony
[ 10-28-2002: Message edited by: Nut4Trucks ]</p>
To answer a quick question here as to the origin of the factory element:
I believe that there is ONE mfr making this element/housing, and all others are relabeled. I may be wrong here, but I doubt it...
Got off the phone with Technical Support at Racor and he tells me that the OEM filter we have is a 2 micron fliter at 99% efficiency. If that is true, then why are we having problems associated with dirty fuel?
He also told me he has heard that GM and Ford are coming out with a second add on filter like what we here are talking about.
I am waiting on George with his test but I am thinking of purchasing the Racor R460 with a R60S filter. I will have to make a bracket to bolt to the inside of the frame right in front ot the cooler.
Any thoughts?
Couple more thoughts:
1)It is VERY unlikely that the factory filter does as well as claimed.
2) Adding a better filter is a great idea, BUT the fine filter should be AFTER a primary filter.
I'm not rushing into this one...
Here's one more idea I got from a local Injection Service. One of the techs there suggest that the main problem is not dirty fuel but the lack of lubrication due to the reduction in Sulfur in Diesel fuel. He says add a fuel additive such as Stanadyne.
He also suggest that most injections systems can digest particles up to 10 microns with no problem.
When I had my 8 injectors replaced the Diesel tech said the same thing about sulfur content and lack of lubrication. However the shop manager opened a GM technical case and GM recommends against the use of fuel additives.
One thing to remember is 5-10 micron particles at 30,000psi will be like a sand blaster. Dirt does more harm to injectors than lack of sulfur. I beleive in fuel additives but it is not a cure for everything aspecially dirt. If we had picture posting ablities I could show you my fuel analysis report and it was DIRTY stuff.
Greg
The information I am sharing with respect to injector and pump wear is the result of a many hundred thousand dollar study funded by CAT relating to injector life, or lack thereof. In this very thorough injector wear study, it was determined that the 5 to 10 micron particle size content bears a direct relatonship to wear rates. The reduction in sulphur content had minimal measurable relationship to wear rates when compared with dirt/particle counts.
This is a rather long story but the short of it is that our fuel systems are basically hydraulic systems. 20 some odd years ago hydraulic system manufacturers found that fine particle contamination is what was destroying/reducing pump and servo valve life. They established a system of 'cleanliness codes'. For our fuel system pressure and componentry, we should be achieving a minimum of a 15/13/10 ISO cleanliness. For a garbage truck hydraulic system to live, it needs a minimum 18/16/14. The higher the number the more allowable particles in the size range of 2, 5 and 15 microns. Most diesel fuels from the pump are in the region of a 20/18/16 or even as high as 24/22/19... Not even fit for a 1,000 psi hydraulic system in a garbage truck much less a 30,000 psi fuel system!
Thus, if we have a fuel filter which is only 50% efficient in removing the 5 to 10 micron particle size, fuel injector and pump life is going to be short. The fuel system/injectors will no doubt make it through the warranty period but take a look at the posts on this site and the 6.5TD and you will notice a trend.
Dirty fuel was almost acceptable with the old mechanical, 3,000 psi injectors but with our high pressure, high precision injection, contaminants mean drastically shortened life.
In the next weeks we will know exactly how efficient our fuel filter is on the Duramax.
George Morrison, STLE CLS
I've been running Wix fuel filters from NAPA. I emailed Wix asking for nominal and absolute Beta specs on their 33810 part # filter for the Duramax. Here is the reply I received from them:
OE does not specify a nominal rating. The absolute is 2 micron and our 33810 part number meets this requirement.
Thank you for your inquiry
Chris Greeson
Senior Technical Services Manager
[ 10-28-2002: Message edited by: Micheal Tomac ]</p>
Ok George I am convinced the fine particles are our enemy. I am going to purchase a second filter for my truck. John suggest putting the fine filter after the OEM filter. I can't see where it would make a difference on the quality of fuel reaching the pump and injectors. I just see one or the other will need replacing sooner than the other. Any comments on where the additional filter needs to placed?
George I don't know what you do for a living but you sound like you know what your talking about.
This site is full of good resources!!!
Regarding additional filtration. I want to see exactly what our OEM filter is doing efficiency-wise. We have had several additional volunteers who are going to be doing 'before & after' tests on their pump source fuel and the after the filter qualities. Then we will know exactly what we are dealing with particulate-wise and can then make decisions based on this information. I would suggest waiting a few weeks until we get the data completed..
We will share all of the results with everyone here as the fuel analysis are completed.
George Morrison, STLE CLS
Last sentence in my previous post.
I might install some better filters inbetween my aux tank and the oem tank..and just fill the aux tank and transfer all the time..
I will wait for your results, of course..
Thanks for the Cat research..I have alot of friends who work at the Decatur Il Cat Plant.. [img]smile.gif[/img]
I guess a few more weeks won't kill me or my truck.
Thanks again George!!!
Hey George,
I got my second kit today and pulled the sample post filter or just before the cooler to be more exact. Used my new remote start to control the flow. I was actually surprised that the flow was as slow as it was. It really didn't shoot out at all. For the sample, I let the line hang down over a pan and just caught samples out of the stream. I filled, shook and dumped 3 times and kept the 4th sample. I will sent them UPS tomorrow.
I've got the test gauge that is used to measure vaccuum after the filter. My plan it to use this hose, along with an air hose/rag to create a slight pressure in the tank and push the fuel through the filter this way...