I found this and it should fix the problem:
http://www.gmdieseltech.com/store2/c...oduct_id=16343
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I found this and it should fix the problem:
http://www.gmdieseltech.com/store2/c...oduct_id=16343
Mark - Thanks for diggin into this. I'm going to my dealership to talk to the guys there about this. They've been good to me in the past. I'll post what I find out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoolmak
A good friend of mine that used to work for GM parts had the clip on his break about 2 months ago. At that time Gm had over 200 rear case halfs in a local boston area warehouse and just over 50 compleat manual shifted cases in stock. Any that reads in to this and thinks these trucks dont have a small problem is just a little gullalble (sp?). There is a few signs that is happening but its not very long between being able to fix it or trash it. I have not see any aftermarket fixes for the broken clip but it cant be that hard to fix . Keep a eye on the ground in the center of the truck and tailgate for oil drips , the two trucks I looked at had the whole underside of the body coverd with dextron III fluid. One owner heard a bearing noise and saved it the other turned up the radio and got a big bill!
OK i'm confused. Are the 06 pushbutton cases still built the same with the clips in them, do I need to worry? Or are they redesigned.
I went up to the service department at the GM dealership today and had a long discussion with their manager about this problem. I took up three pictures posted by others on this site. Interestingly enough, neither of the two service writers knew about the problem and called the service manager. He knew about the problem and even took me into the shop area where a defective transfer case had been disassembled to show me the parts and how the leak is created once the clip breaks. (Not the problem with the case they were working on.)
I specifically asked if the design of the case had changed to stop the problem. The answer was 'No' - the same case is still used, despite the problem.
I then asked how often their service department dealt with this problem? He said they had done four replacements of the rear half of the case this last year. Somewhat incredulous, I asked 'Only four?' He responded by saying that it is a problem he is aware of, but that it is rare. He also said that the common thread for the vehicles they fixed was that they were older and had been used hard, either offroad or as a continuously hauling work truck. He said that he thinks it is much more of a problem in extreme climates like 'oilpatch Alberta' where temperatures range from -40 to 100 degrees. I did not feel sufficiently informed to comment on that.
I don't know how many GMC/Chevy , both diesel and gas, trucks are in this area. The city population is 85,000 with another 30,000 in the area. The number of 1999 to 2007 trucks I suspect has to be in the high hundreds. If that is the case, the number of repairs they've done is not high.
Regarding post warranty coverage, his position is based on the miles past warranty expiry driven by the trucks, and that it is a case by case (is that a pun?) decision.
I feel somewhat relieved - but if my case started leaking, that could change in a hurry.
I dont have all the pics I want right now for this, but I am going to give everybody an overview.
The problem exists on most all of the new t-cases. Be it a Jimmy, Tahoe, or a one ton dually. As already mentioned, the problem stems from the design.
The operation of the pump is in a nutshell like this. The pump is a floating design, it is aligned primarily with the mainshaft via a brass bushing and is allowed to float in the case using the tabs on the pump into slots in the case. The little clip is designed to take up the movement and dampen it. Problem is that that little spring steel clip takes a beating. Everytime you change load on the engine, that pump moves. On and off the gas is what does it, its not related to foward/reverse like plowing at all. Using 4x4 all the time or not at all means nothing either. The narrow edge on the pump will 'cut' through that clip over time and when the clip is damaged, that allows even more movement and it will start cutting into the case. The magnesium case is softer then the aluminum pump and thats why the case wears. Once the hole starts, its usually high in the case, above the fluid line so it dont leak at a stop or sitting. Only when moving is the pump pumping and this fluid is splashing up. You may never know about the problem until its too late. Usually by the time the problem is found, its too late and expensive repairs are ahead. There is no way of knowing what is damaged inside until its torn down, but most common would be the blocking rings and syncro parts, as well as the mainshaft sleeve. Lots more details on this, but I hope you get the overall view of it.
Now, for the fix. Seeing this problem a bunch of times, I had to figure out how to make it not a problem.
Here is what I came up with, sorry I dont have any side by side pics here. my computer crashed and i lost all of them, but I'll get more up.
http://www.gmdieseltech.com/store2/c...oduct_id=16343
What it is is a completely remade pump half, you can see that the tabs are now alot bigger (taller) and thus spread the load out better and prohibit the problem. The OEM pump uses the same tabs, but they are only about .090" tall, mine are .550" tall. This is only one half of the pump, not a complete replacment piece
I'll be getting with More Power in the near future on this and perhaps will be able to show you more detailed info on this as well as an overview on how its installed.
How much trouble is it to install?
I don't have a picture either, but this illustration of a pump is to scale and you can see how thin the tabs are that dmaxallitech is talking about.
dmaxalliTech, any success in getting with MP about this problem. I'm starting to get worried. I've got 95,000 miles on mine now. Was reading through the shop manual(Helms) and the part about needing two people to get the case out of the vehicle doesn't sound like fun for one person, but I'm starting to think I may have to make a trip up your way when the weather thaws and let you put your new part in just as prevention of future failure. Once the case is worn into its too late. Let us know. I know so little about Magnesium and what if anything could be done to harden that area of the case against wear.
How does New Process get away with selling cases to GM that are known to fail sooner or later? Why buy a truck with an engine that can go for years to only have to replace everything else that breaks pretty often. I can identify with some of the guys that have had this problem already. The amount of posts on this is pretty amazing.
Mine just popped a hole, 2001 w/66,800 miles. I noticed fluid on the garage floor and crawled under the truck to find ATF all over the transfer case and a small hole in the typical location. Mine was only 1/2 quart low on fluid so I think I saved the internals. I called GM first thing this morning and have the truck at the dealer so we'll see what they say; hopefully I can get some form of compensation.
I just got word back from GM and the dealer, they'll cover the repair of my transfer case but I have to pay a $300 deductible. Basically I'll be paying for the parts and they'll cover the labor. I'm happy since the parts would have cost me around $400 if I had fixed it myself, plus it won't cost me more $$$ if they find damage inside.
I just dropped off my car at the Dealer for some warranty work, and the Head of the "large" service Dept drove my car to see what the issue's were, while I rode along. We were talking about trucks and I mentioned about the transfer case problems. He was well aware of the problem. He said that sometimes they would go ahead and fix stuff that was way out of warranty for really good customers, like fleet type buyers or a business that bought several vehicles from them every year. The dealership apparently absorbed the cost. The customer assumed the repair was done under factory warranty.
I asked him why GM didn't fix the washer/spacer that caused the failure, he said that he was under the impression that GM purchased the transfer cases from a supplier like they do the rears and axels, and didn't actually build the transfer cases. And most of the failures were after the warranty had already run out. He said that he was amazed that the suppliers hadn't taken care of the poor design, since it wouldn't cost that much. Chances are even that part is bought by the supplier from someone else also, just like the bearings and seals. Makes you wonder.
Its called OUTSOURCING. Everybody does it to try and get ahead of the competition. Instead of building it themselves, they find someone who makes the same product and try to get them to supply it at a lower cost. Most everyone finds out after a few years of this, that their costs of replacement and warranty repairs, and late shipments, etc., turns out the other guys aren't any less expensive than they were to start with. Unfortunately all top management has to actually experience it before they will finally accept it as fact. The guys you train to build your product will do better than anyone else can that you didn't train, if you're the best at what you do. Come on America, Wake up! Cheap labor isn't so cheap after all, not when you look at the lost opportunity costs. There is no excuse to continue to do business with someone who continues to build an inferior(ms I think) prone to break product. IMHO
I couldn't have said it better. You hit the nail on the head. Too bad we couldn't send a group letter to the people that build the cases. And tell them what they need to do and how they are failing.
Q: what's the opinion of using oil analysis to predict a potential failure?
Good point, I wonder if a good synthetic like trasynd would curb some of the wear? I had refilled our t-case on our 02 with transynd when I did the deep pan and fill.
I just finished reading this entire thread, and it seems I can now look forward to the same issue sooner or later with my '01 D/A. I have no visible symptoms yet, but with 93,000 miles on the truck I look it over much more carefully each time I get it up on the rack. I am sensitive to the TC issue, as I had to replace a granaded TC on my '96 2500 Silverado before I bought the Duramax. In that case, a 2 cent snap ring failed and allowd the gear cluster to wander aimlessly on the shaft. It eventually slid into the mating cluster at highway speed and made some very expensive noises. There were 48,000 miles on the clock at that point. The repair estimate was nearly $1400. I politely but firmly reminded the service manager that this was the third new vehicle I had purchased from that dealership, and he already knew that I had it regularly serviced by his team. There was nothing that I did to the truck that could possibly have caused such damage. I asked him to call GM and find out WHAT (not IF) GM was going to do about it. I still ended up with nearly $600 out of pocket though. Alas, the same ordeal may be in the future again. The Toyota Tundra is looking better all the time.
Hey, Nels, how's the family? Long time since we had brats and kicked tires. Only 93,000 miles? I turned 141,400 on my 2001 this afternoon. You think worrying about the transfer case is bad? I'm waiting for the transfer case, the waterpump, the alternator and the injectors to go any second - they are all "overdue" according to all I've been told and read. Fortunately, the DMax and I are too stupid to know we are old, obsolete and broken - so we just keep ticking along at 17.4 mpg average, fat dumb and happy!
Got back from a round trip Chicago-Denver yesterday. The tailgate, camper shell, trailer and vehicle on the trailer have a misting of ATF on them. Puddle under the middle of the vehicle after sitting over night. I slid under it, and the oil on the frame starts at the t-case, so I suspect this is the problem. I also noticed a lot of ATF in the tranny cooler forward of the tank. One thing I noticed was the tranny temp ran about 20-30 degrees hotter at the end of the ride home.
Mine is a 2003 D/A with 69K miles.
Bob
tufcj
Your leak may be the TC. Clean it up and find the source. If it's still leaking, there's hope (it's not empty). Your tranny temps should not be effected by a TC leak, until things start binding (increased load). Your tranny temp increase likely came from somewhere else. If you do have the TC leak/hole, fix it ASAP. Drive it dry, and you'll need to repair/replace more than just the housing and pump plate.Quote:
Originally Posted by tufcj
The cooler in front of the tank is the fuel cooler. The ATF cooler is behind the grill.
Slid under it on Tuesday, after recovering from the trip on Monday. Pulled the fill flug on the t-case, and put in a little less than 1.5 quarts of ATF, so it wasn't completely empty, but close. :eek: Sprayed the underside with super clean and pressure washed it down. Drove it to work on Wed-Thu, and I do see a couple of drips where I park it, but not much. No noise, so hopefully the case is OK. I didn't notice any fluid on the tailgate when I arrived in Denver, only when I got back to Chicago.
The next questions.
Can the back half be changed in the vehicle, or does the case have to be pulled?
If I have to pull the case, does the crossmember for the torsion bars have to come out?
Best place to get the case and the pump upgrade that's listed here.
I've done a couple of 235s from Jeeps, so I'm no stranger to t-cases. If I have to do this, I'd just like to do it once, do it right, and be done with it.
Bob
tufcj
It might be possible to pull the rear case half only, without pulling the entire transfer case out of the truck, but it would actually make more work for you. Disassembly and then re-assembly just about has to be done with the transfer case sitting vertically on its front flange.
Rear case halves are available, and I'd install the Merchant pump upgrade to prevent this from happening again.
Jim
I've done a half dozen or so of these now as preventive maintenance. All had the OE clip still in place and no apparent sign of wear. For the price ($50) for the little wear plate I will not drop a transfer case without installing one.
I have had the T-case on my 93 apart a couple of times. It is not rocket science. These are easy to repair. As MP said the case needs to be verticle so all the shafts stay aligned when putting the back case back in place. If you are going into the case any farther than the back case you will need a good set of snap ring pliers.
My 03 hasn't shown any signs of leakage as of yet but it is somthing that I keep a close eye on.
Denny
After searching for two days and 2 qts of fluid I found a pin hole in the side of me T case today. Dealer said the swap out will be a little under two grand. I talked with a reputable trnamissiion shop and they just happen to be doing the same thing on a vehicle. the Trany shop price was a little over 2 grand.
Next time I buy a chevy (if I buy a chevy) I will get an extended warranty. This is BS. Two front hubs in the last three months and now a T-case with less the 90,000 miles.
They sure make Ford better and better looking....................
I was under the impression that welding magnesium was not possible, I saw recently a discussion about welding a variety of materials, which included magnesium. So, I did a google search, which would suggest it is possible when using a TIG welder. If you can weld magnesium, it would reduce the cost of a leaking t-case considerably.
Any welders in the group who know more?
Jim
I remember when I was a kid and the local fair was in town. The local volunteer fire dept. was putting on an exhibition on magnesium fires. Someone tried to put it out with water when it got into their barrels of extra material. Kinda reminded me of the 4th of July! :eek:
But I did have a neighbor who claimed he had welded aluminum to stainless. Had to use a vibrating table at just the right frequency. So I guess anything is possible.
Was told today (after I picked up my truck) that one the welders at our Plant had a Bad Ass machine that could weld anything. Sure wish I had known sooner. I would have let him try. I heard that he has welded on many trannies and engine blocks.
Well I made it all of 30 miles and heard some noise. On the way home from work i got about a mile and lost power. I think the brand new second hand rebuilt T case blew. It sits tonight at the dealer. Guess I will know more tomorrow.
I got my truck back from the dealer's shop yesterday. They gave me a Ford CC 1/2 ton to drive over the weekend. I will never buy one of those. Anyway, so far so good. I plan to put some miles on the 2nd new rebuilt T case tomorrow and see if she will hold up.
Been looking for any service bulletins on the (2004) T Case.
Earlier this year, the pin hole developed in my case. Ordered the parts and had a local mechanic do the work. We did install the Kennedy part to keep it from hapening again. Just to test, I took it to a facility that does mag casting work. Since the casting are not perfect (fan blades), they do weld repairs. He was able to seal the hole in the case. Unless you know where to look, don't even notice it. If anybody is intersted, cover shipping and it is yours... had ~96K miles when this took place.
We have a 2003 Yukon XL, 2500 6.0 used for towing our offshore boat. The truck has 62,000 miles, it was used as my wife's daily driver for the first three years owned. Now it just goes on vacations, boat towing and snow storms.
About 3 weeks ago I discovered a noise, sounded like a dry U-joint. On 12/14 the local Chevy dealer accurately diagnosed the problem and told me that they had seen the problem before, loss of fluid due to hole caused by internal failure. "Needs new case, estimate to start is $1,326.00 estimate doesn't include internal failure may be higher once taken apart". The service tech said it could be a couple hundred more, depending on what they find on disassembly.
I made a service appointment for Monday the 17th. at the GMC dealer where I purchased this vehicle (and three others in the past 6 years). Over the weekend I did my research and found this thread. I printed the entire thread for the Service Manager and took it and my truck to my dealer on the 17th. I also called GM Customer Support the same day, and explained the entire story and as much as I could relate about all 30-some others of you in this thread who had the same issue. GM Customer Support rep told me he would call me on Tuesday afternoon with a response, but no promises given. By mid-day on Tuesday the Service Manager called to tell me the repair would cost $3,400. I knew he had been in contact with GM Customer Support. He went on to say that it would all be covered except for the Illinois Sales Tax on the parts, or $100 - $150.
The Service Manager mentioned how well maintained my vehicle was and it seemed that we recently started getting the vehicle serviced elsewhere. He said he wanted us back as a service customer and "recommended" the 60,000 mile maintenance package. It was hard to say no when he just told me my repair bill would almost be paid in full. The parts were ordered and it looks like I'll be lucky if I get it back by Friday. More likely next week after the holiday.
The GM Support person said it was good that I called while the truck was there and they could work directly with the dealer before the repairs were completed.
I'll post an update when I get the truck back.
What number did you call at GM. Maybe I can get back some of the $2,200 I spent on a rebuilt one at the dealer here.
Hope all goes well.
I got a letter in the mail this weekend stating that some GM customers have had problems with the speedometer and guages. If I have a problem with these items on my truck I was to take it to the dealer along with the letter. Well, I have not had any problems with the speedometer and guages, but I have the front hubs.
Wonder when I will get the front hub letter????????
Ranger, the number I dialed is 800 462-8782. Best of luck to you.
I finally got around to listing a details page for the plate that I sell. The mfr states that JB Weld does well although I'd prefer a new or welded case. If I were to do the JB thing, I'd be sure to extrude some through the hole so there was a bit inside and out to hold fast.
Plate details:
http://www.kennedydiesel.com/detail.cfm?ID=511
auto track ii is just blue dexron so when your seal gose out you can see it turn red it dosent matter what you put in it dexron is probablye a little cheaper
the exact same thing happed to my 01 lb7 i got a small hole in the tcase and the fluid leaked out and the truck sat in the shop for like a month before i went and picked up and just drove with some jb weld over the hole but they told me that sh!t off the road hit it and did it, it was probably the same thing that happened to yours that happened to mine
How many TC's do you want to buy? Bad advice. Autotrac II fluid IS NOT just blue Dexron. The Autotrac TC's have unique requirements of the fluid. Unlike traditional TC's, they have active syncro's and slipper clutch friction surfaces. Some premium synthetic ATF's claim to be compatible with Autotrac II fluid, but most do not. Put Dexron in your Autotrac if you want, but don't advise others to do the same unless you are offering a warranty with the advice.