I have a few questions.
-With the steel crank do you think the factory harmonic balancer is a non issue?
-Did they use a timing chain?
-Do the heads work with the van style centermount turbo intake?
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I have a few questions.
-With the steel crank do you think the factory harmonic balancer is a non issue?
-Did they use a timing chain?
-Do the heads work with the van style centermount turbo intake?
I am not clear on your harmonic question... this part should always be in mint condition, whether you have a cast or a forged crank. Dampner should be replaced if worn or questionable.
A standard timing chain was used on the P400.
The heads will work with the center mount turbo intake as this engine was designed to drop into HMVV's. I believe these are identical... don't quote me!
I would refer you to the members area article: http://www.thedieselpage.com/members...rketsharec.htm
This includes a side view of the center mount turbo setup.
good point on the balancer, some times it's hard to tell the condition of the balancer if you aren't the original owner..
I guess the timing chains are good enough
did you have to change the heads to a side mount turbo style??
I have civy H-1 center mount turbo engine currently and its block is the time bomb model so I will need a new long block eventualy..
Heads are identical. I noticed that some intake gaskets are thicker than others... which can throw the geometry off a hair.
Heads all interchange from what I have experienced.
Cheers! Mike
Interesting I thought the heads were different for the centermount turbo "something about the angle of the intake"
What is your mileage like now?
I haven't been tracking the mileage as I have had the 11.5' Bigfoot camper on the back for the past few months. Pointless trying to determine mileage while hauling a barn on the back.
I ran it over a scale at the end of my last trip:
Front axle: 1800 KG (3968 lbs)
Rear axle: 2800 KG (6173 lbs)
I know I'm doing better than a couple of friend's truck/camper units... as we have filled up before and after fishing trips. They have gas units though.
I'll have the camper on through the end of the year. After I pull it off, I'll burn a full tank without weight and get back to you then.
The rig is running great!
I recently replaced both truck batteries in the truck. The camper's 4D battery killed the truck batteries. We camp in the boonies for days without power.
I installed 2 interstate 6v Golf Cart batteries in the camper, and added a 120amp isolator to prevent future leaching issues.
Cheers!
Good Day!
"Pointless trying to determine mileage while hauling a barn on the back." I would respectfully disagree, although certainly whether you check mpg or not is entirely up to you.
Hauling loads, including aerodynamic loads, is where diesels really shine. My former neighbor pulls a 48' gooseneck race trailer. He got ~ 7 mpg with his 454 Chev, & now gets ~ 10 mpg with his 7.3 PS. That doesn't sound like much of an improvement, but invert the numbers. He used to burn ~ 14 gallons to go 100 miles, now he burns ~ 10 gallons. That's a 29% drop in fuel consumption, which is a huge improvement. Of course, with today's prices, it's still costing more to pull with his diesel, but hopefully that will return to some normalcy before too long.
Blessings!
Oops... what I meant to say was pointless to determine optimal mileage. The numbers would be useful comparatively... so you are quite correct!
I have to pull the rig through 30 minutes of start-stop traffic before entering the freeway... so everything is relative.
I was considering a fuel meter similar to what they install on marine applications... computers provide point to point and long-term data. Just another project.
I'll see what I can provide in the interm ;). Thanks for the reply.
Good Day!
"I'll see what I can provide in the interm." I'd suggest you collect mpg data if that's what you want to do; if you do, sharing them here can be helpful to some of us. When we pulled our little enclosed snowmobile trailer (like SM727TA2 except 25' long [here]), we always got 12 - 16 mpg at legal speeds, 14 mpg with no winds or few hills. I got a big kick out of knowing I was using LOTS less fuel than if I had a gasser.
Blessings!(signature in previous post)
I feel your pain - I shove a motorhome 8' wide and 11' tall (not counting the roof thingies), but I average over 10mpg - more like 10.5, on the AMG 6500 Economizer. This is ~15% better than the stock 6.5L, and the extra power is appreciated.Quote:
Originally Posted by JetBoater
New information has sort of died on this thread. Can anyone update it? Have these engines proven to be as durable as thought? Do they really have that much increased power? What kind of mileage do they get, particularly towing or pushing large RVs? Have they come out with a workable pan yet?
Just thought it was time to see some updates on this since there should be some real road miles on them by now.
Thanks
I have 67K on mine in <4 years, and the M/H hasn't lost any weight. No issues. A Sun Coast Converters magic-wand-waving on the TC and tranny bumped fuel economy to 11.7 mpg. There's no comparison (@ 230 HP) with the stock engine.
I'm thinking of doing the same thing to my pickup and wondering how difficult it will be to bolt it all up. Sure sounds like the engine is the way to go.
My truck is only used for recreation and has about 12,000 km on it at this point.
It's sad to see it in my driveway most of the time, sitting for weeks between usage.
I just came back from a 5 day camping trip, and running as good as the day my P400 went into service. No oil leaks either!
It does heat up on long steep grades, but cools down quickly. This has not proved to be a problem to date.
The horsepower hasn't changed... dyno'd at 215 hp, 470 lb/ft of torque. I pull a 21' boat in addition to my 11.5 ' camper.. so it is pulling what I feel is it's maximum load. The motor doesn't seem to work any harder with over a ton of camper, but it feels the additional boat on hills.
The truck is cheaper to run than my 2001 R/T Durango... but what isn't. I have been tracking the fuel/fill/mileage, so will do the math and come back with some numbers.
So, who are the sources for a P400? I seem to recall that Penninsular is one?
I compared a few trips and the overall mileage from the past year of driving.
The fuel mileage was 20.8 L/100km or 11.3 miles/Gallon on last years fishing trip. The same trip this year was was 19.7 L/100km or 11.9 miles/Gallon. It appears my mileage is getting a bit better.
The overall mileage was 10.9 miles per gallon. I had the camper off for a few months to haul some wood, but this is overall with the camper and/or boat.
I have a heavy foot, and am not shy about working the motor. I am sure the mileage would improve if I didn't like to accelerate with the rest of the cars on the road.
I purchased the upper intake for my intercooler from Pennisular.
I bought the P400 from W W Williams, Defense Business Development. This was direct from General Engine Products Franklin Ohio plant. You can order the long block with 18:1 or 20:1 compression.
The oil pan was the only issue to consider prior to ordering an engine... everything else bolts up without issue. ;)
Mike, I'm in the process of putting a P400 in my '95 K3500, so will be attempting to do the same oil pan that you have. Can you tell me which Moroso oil pickup you used?Quote:
Originally Posted by JetBoater
Thanks, Mike
I don't recall which number of Moroso pickup it was, but it doesn't really matter.
I only used the end off it and welded it to the stock P400 tube.. if you do the same, you will need to adjust/rotate the tube into the correct position.
Ensure this tube is secured once it has been fabricated.
Cheers,
Mike
Hmm.. posted a reply a couple of days ago. Not sure why it didn't go through.
I rotated the existing P400 tube down to the bottom of the pan sump and only used the end of the Moroso pickup. I would use the existing oil pickup and cut/weld the tube to fit/place it appropriately in your pan.
Be sure to secure the tube once you have it positioned where you want it. I bent/used the existing bracket to hold tube in position.
My P400 has been my recreational powerplant since 2008 and hasn't let me down yet! It has lots of power for my needs and the truck has been running at it's GVW limit since the motor was installed. You will be happy with it, without a doubt.
Wishing you success! Mike
Thanks Mike.
I'm still waiting to get the pan rail sorted with Jeff at Industrial Laser Cutting. He quoted me $150 for the rail, but I've been having trouble getting in touch with him to finalize the order.
My long block should be in Tacoma this week, then on the truck to Alaska... so hope to have it by the beginning of next week.
I may be crazy, but the first thing I'm going to do when it arrives is pull the heads off, and take them into the machine shop for some valve work. I'm also going to talk to them about the price to port match the intake and exhaust. Don't know if I'll have that done or not... it depends on the quote they give me.
I've got a Fluidampr, Phazer timing gears, S&B cold air intake, and new battery & glow plug wiring from PT wiring solutions sitting on the shelf waiting.
Also going on the new motor will be Bill Heath's Super Duty cooling upgrade, and his brand new P400 camshaft, a heavy duty lift pump, and the SS feed the beast mod.
The truck already has a 4" exhaust system, bigger mandrel bent crossover, a turbomaster, and Heath's Max E Tork tow program... which I have sent back for reprogramming for the new P400 cam.
The radiator is already at the rad shop getting checked out and cleaned up. Other than that, I'm putting in an hour or two every evening pulling the old motor apart.
I wasn't as 'hardcore' as you!
The $150 for cutting the flange seems a bit pricey, as you know it cost $100 in 2008 and inflation didn't go up 50%.
Wishing you success!
I don't suppose you have a part number for the oil pan gasket? I haven't been able to find that anywhere yet.
I have not been successful in finding a part number for an oil pan gasket for the P400. Were you able to find one, or did you just silicon it on?
Hi Mike,
The original pan was found sealed with black silicone, so hate to say it, but I used Ford TA-31 sealant to do the job. It is a viscous grey paste and is holding up well.
I sprung a very small leak approximately 6 months after motor was put into service, but believe it is coming from a pan bolt..... it doesn't drip.
Extra attention to this unless you want a mess sometime after the job is done.
You could make your own gasket, using the pan or motor as a template... kinda finicky, but may be worth it. Both surfaces are flat and I had a couple of narrow spots to deal with.
Cheers, :cool:
I just got done reading this entire thread, very awesome build and great job you did.
This long block came with no manifolds or fuel system right?
One thing I have to know is, why in hell would you bother or waste your time using a gm turbo? Especially after you put all the high dollar in the rest of the motor.
I mean the stock turbo is a big choke point and most likely the reason 6.5s blow out. The drive pressure to boost ratio is way off.
Just think how much you could benefit from a larger freer flowing turbo, Lower temps, less back pressure on the motor, better economy, more power and performance and most likely more longevity.
I don't mean to tell you what to do, just sharing some insight so you can better improve what you have.
Again great build and thanks for sharing.
The GM turbo was used mostly due to the fact that I did not have the time to fab up a transition plate for an alternate turbo at the time. My concern was getting my truck in service.
The old turbo has been working just fine, and spools up quickly. A larger breathing turbo would definitely run a cooler engine, but I only climb a few humps on my annual camping/boating trips... so it's not a big deal.
I appreciate the comments. :cool:
I guess it's a good thing I've got a day job!
It took me 5 1/2 months, but the truck is back on the road with the P400 in it. Took it out of the shop under its own power for the first time yesterday. In my own defense, it did take 3 months to get the new long block to Alaska!
Thanks again JetBoater for going there first, and giving me the information for getting the oil pan rail. The oil pan turned out great, and holds 12 qts.
I did not end up installing the phazer gear drive at Bill Heath's recommendation. I'm running his new P400 cam, and he felt strongly that I should stick with the chain since that's what the cam was designed for. (anybody interested in a "new, never used" phazer gear drive)
I went ahead and did the DIY CAC too. On my test drive yesterday ambient temp was about +10F, and my IAT was +22F.
Only 50 miles on the new motor at this point... but it seems very smooth, and has tons of power right from the start. Haven't put my foot in it yet, or done any pulling. But am looking forward to camping season this summer.
Congratulations on re-powering your truck with the P400 Mike!
It has proven extremely reliable for me and I'm sure you'll find the same thing. Enjoy and keep us all posted.
:cool:
What turbo are you using?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefairbanks
It has the stock GM-4 turbo in it still with a turbo-master set at 15 psi max. I've looked at a lot of information on other turbos, but since this is my daily driver, as well as my camper hauler I'm hesitant to put a big turbo in it that would be great when towing, but not so great on a daily basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by JorgeNY6.5
I've heard rumors on a new turbo being designed specifically for this motor that I am really looking forward to coming available.
I haven't towed anything with it yet, but I've got 1400+ miles on it already, and it pulls hard... much stronger than the old motor.
The GM8 turbocharger isn't as bad as everyone "thinks" it is. The numbers I pulled in my signature line were with a GM8.
Now, are there better units out there?
Heck yeah, the GM8 has design roots as far back as the early 90's. There's been lots of advancements since then.
Would I be using a Chinese knock off turbo or a Holset take off unit to replace it?
Nope....I'd buy a new one after some serious consultation with a manufacturer. Big bucks though, better get ready to pony up new unit prices plus a premium for going where no one has gone before.
I really like the BW EFR series. Not cheap by a good margin though....
GM8 does what it needs to on my 1993 K3500.
The 1993 K3500 Silverado P400 Dually is up for sale.
The P400 has 22,500 kms on it and the truck has 198,500 kms.
PM me if interested. The truck is located in Delta BC.
I am selling it for best offer. Pics/requests provided by request.
Thanks,
Mike
Truck has sold...
My new ride is a 2012 Duramax Denali 2500HD 4X4 Crew Cab
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...r/IMG_2894.jpg
I did a Cognito leveling kit to get the nose up... mud flaps, air bags, and camper tie-downs are next. :cool: