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While your advice is correct when dealing with the stock diesel sock,it does not remedy the condition many people face when buying aftermarket sending units that even though are speced for diesel use-have been shipped with gasoline socks.Quote:
Originally Posted by DmaxMaverick
The socks for gas use are a much finer mesh and often inhibit the flow of diesel that is a much thicker fluid-especially when the fuel is exposed to colder temps.
It doesn't matter which sock. The aftermarket socks may be finer, but still so coarse that it will not cause issues with an otherwise healthy system and quality fuel. The area of the sock that will pass fuel (the holes) is many times greater than the area of the inlet. Most heavy equipment fuel tank socks are many times more fine than any automotive sock, and they are usually metal. The same rules apply, regardless of the sock. If it's plugging, you have fuel quality issues. If it's temperature related, the sock is the least of your worries. By the time fuel won't pass the sock, your pump can't pump, and the fuel manager filter will not pass it, heater or not, sock or not. If the fuel gets too "thick" when it's cold, you need to treat the fuel, or warm it up. It's really only that simple. Sock removal for any on-road vehicle is not a solution to any problem. Replace it, perhaps, after the cause of the problem has been fixed, if it makes you feel better.Quote:
Originally Posted by racer55
No problem with your reasoning but if you haven't noticed the many many threads about problems with gas socks on diesel sending units restricting fuel over the last year or more then thats ok too.
SickSpeed check Amazon.com for the fuel filter unit -( ACDelco 10226035 ) just got one from them for $95. They also sell the Delco sending units ( ACDelco FLS1089 )cheaper than most. No taxes and free shipping most of the day. Also just ordered my Delphi injectors from them - $100 cheaper than anybody already.
Good luck figuring it out
Brad
Also, a truck can get a bad batch of fuel and pass that tank of fuel, but leave crap on the sock. That seems to be what I see most. So, there is really nothing to cure as far as the problem/source (except maybe don't fill up with the same fuel again). Point is the fuel quality is the problem we all know that. If you get one tank of algae fuel this does not mean you will always have algae until you drop the tank and clean it, you might be just fine if you can burn that tank out, but now the sock/filters probaly need replaced.
I would rather change a $10-15 pre lp filter than to drop the tank and do the whole sock thing.
I agree with Dmaxmav that the sock is not the problem, its the fuel quality. I just recomend a easier way to get the fuel system flowing again if you do get a real bad problem.
That's the problem. It's an easy scape-goat, when it isn't the problem. It's like someone blaming the spoon for being fat.Quote:
Originally Posted by racer55
I also believe the tank strainer is a red herring 95-99% of the time it is blamed.
My 98 has a raptor 100 pumping 12 psi and pulling through the strainer and a 14" 30 micron prefilter.
Original tank strainer and 429,000 kms on it. Taken fuel from stations across literally the entire continent. Everything from truck stops to the smallest places in the middle of nowhere. Even had to syphon from an old farm trucks tanks that had been sitting for a couple years once when we found ourselves lost in the middle of nowhere and running too low on fuel (yes, the owner knew I was doing it!).
Nary a bobble or complaint because of the tank strainer.
But like any part, it can fail, clog or do something totally off the wall. Hence the 95-99% time rating.
The OEM deign has a bypass built in so even if it fails to pass fuel it will still flow.
Now if someone gets in there and installs non OEM or the wrong parts, all bets are off.....
I agree with DMAX, don't leave the sock off. However, as I have found out first hand, the aftermarket socks are NOT the same quality as the OEM versions. If I were in your boat, I would spend the money for a genuine GM sending unit with new sock.Quote:
Originally Posted by DmaxMaverick
The plastic sock that came on my aftermarket unit was shot to crap after 15K miles. I reinstalled my old 200K mile OEM sock, and all has been well since! :D I am currently at 254K miles. I chased my problems round and round, and it was the stupid, cheap, plastic sock that was restricting flow.
I don't think the plastic crap used on the aftermarket sending units is compatible with diesel fuel, especially biodiesel and bio blends. All the little holes in the sock swelled shut and wouldn't let fuel flow through. The OEM sock is not made of plastic, but some other durable material.
I know it wasn't a fuel quality problem, because I chased this problem for months over multiple tanks of fuel. After swapping socks, the problem went away, even though I am still using the same sources of fuel. Also, I tried cleaning the "new" sock with brake cleaner and other solvents, and I could not get it to flow properly. It was definitely a poor quality product.
Again, here is a photo showing the two socks and the different constructions of each.... aftermarket on left, OEM on right:
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/p.../Tahoe_001.jpg
Notice the relief valve on the OEM version.... not even present on the aftermarket unit. The aftermarket version also has a plastic screen inside the outer screen, so it is three layers thick. Very difficult for diesel to flow through.
Casey
I would'int say its a scape goat when alot of time it actualy is the problem. I know you say dirty fuel...ect is the problem and it is, but now you have a snoty tank sock so it is a problem to. Who wants to drop the tank...blah blah...VS change a spin on filter? not me!
Do it right, or not. Your choice. The socks don't get snotty all by themselves. As I said, they are not the problem, but an indicator of a problem. Be it "dirty" fuel (never said that), contamination, biological, bioDiesel (not an accepted fuel in excessive %, by any OEM or aftermarket supplier), gelled, etc. The correct action is to remove the tank, clean it, and flush the system. Anything less is a band-aid, and/or a leap of faith. Please describe ONE instance when the sock failed, all by itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning Oil
Its not a Band aid its a modification that addresses a weak point of a system. Are you against modifications? I said I agree with you that the sock is not the problem, but by your analogy then nothing on the truck should be a problem EVER as long as you don't use it, but In the real world its a very good and sound modification. Go ahead and pull your tank if you like. I'll give the spin on filter a chance first. I've had many trucks that needed just the sock removed or cleaned/R&R. The tank was clean. I believe the OP was an example of this? (not going to reread the thread again)
I said "dirty fuel" as a general term, relax.
I wouldn't call the tank strainer a "weak point".
It does exactly what it was designed to do if it's OEM parts.
I do advocate installing a supplemental filter prior to the lift pump though.
In theory, the tank screen can be removed at this point if desired as a 30 micron prefilter will do the screens job for it.
My personal preference is to leave the screen to work in tandem with the prefilter. Screen takes the "gravelly bits" out, prefilter scours down to 30 microns and protects the lift pump, then the main filter scrubs down to 5-10 microns to protect the ip.
That's how mine is right now, workin' fine....
OK, choke point?Quote:
Originally Posted by greatwhite
Nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning Oil
Mine's been doing its job just fine for 14 years and 429,000 kms.
And 2 years ago I threw 1/2 Pushlok and a raptor 100 lift pump at it running 12-14 psi. Still not a wimper.
Hard to argue it's anything less than at least adaquate at its assigned task...
As I mentioned before, nothing is perfect. The tank screen is subject to failure just like any other part.
If people don't like it in there, an external filter will do just as good a job.
You still have to remove the tank to clean it if you get a load of crap in there though.
My prefered method (in a perfect world and limitless budget) would be a tank with a sump feed and a prefilter. Tank gets "messed up" disconnect the feed and let it drain out. Flush it in situ and then hook the lines back up after flushing them from the prefilter back. Change filter and off you go.
I may go that way In the future as I plan to eventually gt an extended range tank built and I'm free to build what I want then. Sure would love to be able to drop 200-300 dollars of diesel in when I run across a scent price rather than getting stuck with whatever is local at the time. Would also be great when hauling the TT....
Can you get those metrome tank senders in custom lengths?
:)
I give up tring to explane the benefit of removing the tank sock. I'll just say IF one day you (in general) get a pluged up sock you will wish you had the spin on. Funny thing is though, you will want to wait until there is a problem to remove the sock or FSU before doing the mod.
I can build to order some custom length Metrum Rod FSU's.
http://www.pmdcable.com/index.php?ma...products_id=19
I'm totally with you on the sock removal thing mate. did mine , now the agglomerator catches anything big enough to get down the fuel pipe and i can see it in the bowl when i service the truck. the coarse mesh filter then traps any floaters trying to get into the electric fuel pump. any fines that get past that will go through the pump and end up in my fuel filter, simple as that.....i am still now getting emails with links to this problem thread......thought it had died ages ago......can it?......please?:(
Without the sock a single particle of sufficient size can completely block fuel flow. The sock prevents that from happening as the entire surface of the sock must be blocked to completely block flow.
Exactly. That's why, even though I experienced sock issues, I still recommend and believe that having a sock in the tank is very important. The sock is not a filter, it is a screen, the first line of defense in clean fuel.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnC
For example, let's say a foreign object gets into the tank, and that object happens to be just small enough that it get sucked up into the pickup tube. It then gets lodged in the first elbow and can't travel any further. Immediate fuel flow has stopped.
Or let's say several smaller objects have gotten into the tank, and they also get sucked up into the fuel system and then become lodged, even before reaching any kind of aux. filter. Fuel flow has stopped.
By having a larger surface area to draw through, the chances of fuel flow becoming completely stopped have diminished greatly. The sock helps spread out the fuel intake into the suction tube. It's like having two drains in a swimming pool. One drain is very dangerous, for if something gets sucked down on that drain by the filter pump, something terrible happens: either the water flow is obstructed, or a person's body is damaged or even held under water by the suction. By adding a second drain opening that is tee'd into the first, if one drain gets blocked, the second takes over and nothing serious happens. Water continues to flow.
Casey
As the original poster of this thread, I am exercising my right to close this thread. I don't like the direction things are headed. I have documented my troubles, found a solution, and expressed my opinions. I think enough has been said on this issue.
Thanks for all help and insights on this problem!
Good day,
Casey