Oil Analysis

THECHEVYHDMAN

i was told by k&n that they do not make a oil filter for the duramax. what # k&n are you using for the oil filter?
thank you

Friend of mine with a Dmax & the Amsoil filter system just got an analysis back.

196 on Copper :eek: :eek: Everything else was low.

Only 8,000 miles on the truck & completely stock with no Juice. Mainly short hop city driving with few hwy miles & driven easy. No towing. Amsoil is suggesting bearing wear.

Any ideas?

Billy

What oil? How many changes? How many analysis? Any copper before?

TraceF,

Not sure but I beleive 3 changes. The test was done on the Amsoil Synth 5w30. First two changes was with regular 5w30. Don't know which brand.

This was their 1st analysis.

Billy

Diesel Vette....Im running the stock GM oil filter and K&N AIR FILTER..... Ill take the risk using a non stock air filter, but would never take the risk (after all the problems in the beginning with aftermarket oil filters) of using a non stock oil filter. Out of the 10 past oil analysis I have done on abunch of different vehicles I have never seen a 0 for silicon myself. Bill

You guys got me wondering if I copied the report down wrong, but I didn't the Si Silicon was 0 and the 3 reports before that one they were 4,0, and 1. All with 10,000 miles between changes. The truck has dual Nelson Air filters, they must work good I guess. I just sent another sample out Friday I should get the report back in a few days I'll let you know what it is. Also the Air filters now have 30,000 miles on them I'll be changing them this week. Talk to you later

Diesel Dragon :cool:

Billy14-

If your friend lives in TX I would change to 15w40. If heu used 5w30 in the past and it wasn't diesel rated he used a product not intended for his engine and could have done bearing damage that is continuing to be displayed.

Change the oil, do an analysis of it- and again on the new oil at 3 or 4k miles to see if he has a bearing going away.

It seems everyone has elevated Cu levels in their Duramax oil samples. Does this seem to be the case and should we be worried about it? Anyone have bearing or wrist pin problems?

No problems here, but I only have 6.3kmi. When my truck was brand new I did three (Delo 15w40) oil changes at 1000 mile intervals and sent a sample for Analysis from the third change. My CU was 24ppm at 3k miles. Is this high for a Dmax? I switched to synthetic at the 3kmi change and installed a bypass at the 5kmi change. I plan to do another analysis at 8k. Hopefully the CU will be trending down.

Cu levels on my 6.5 ran between 2 and 0ppm (lower with a Baldwin B50 bypass installed). Cu levels on my 2001 Malibu were 94ppm at 11kmi and 55ppm at 16kmi. I used Oil Analyzers and and they didn’t flag any of the CU levels as a problem. Comments?

Yes, elevated copper level for Duramax engines is the norm. Engines have 'signature' wear metals, depending on bearing and engine design. Many times Japanese designed engines produce relatively higher copper levels and carry those consistent readings through a very, very long life. I just reviewed a Komatsu oil analysis Friday for an engine with over 31,000 hours on it, which is incredibly long life for a large mining machine.
This is why it is important to look at oil analysis results over time, monitoring trends vs. looking at just one oil analysis result in isolation.
George

Mine is at 5ppm as of my latest sampling. Same with silicon. Highest metal was iron at 16ppm. As George will attest, bypass filtration has taken my oil samples to cleanliness levels similar to my fuel!

ISO spec 15/14/10.

I too had high copper before...

I'm running dual by-pass and I have had three oil samples tested. at 9000 mi copper was 96 at 18000 mi copper was 344 at 19000 mi 323 and add a little water on top of that. I decided to change my oil and retest soon.

I noticed between the 18 and 19xxx tests oxidation went down 2%. I think that is impossible so I called oil Analyzers. They told me the tests are not accurate because the testing devices vary measurements somewhat when they calibrate them.

JK- This test was 4000 mi. towing my fifth wheel to Fla. and back. Iron was 12, Cu was 25 and all the rest of the wear metals were single digits or zero. Si was 10 using Amzoil filter. Do you think a bypass filter will help?

I have been running oil analysis at every oil change (except the first one at 1000 mi). Here are the results:

Cu/ Pb/ Sn

5150 mi/ 154/ 22/ 19
11100 mi/ 76/ 13/ 11
15751 mi/ 25/ 7/ 5
20300 mi/ 15/ 4/ 4

Blackstone Lab comments:
"We are impressed with this engine. Upper end wear (al, cr, fe) have been reading steady since the engine was new. Lower end wear (cu, pb, sn) are improving. Steady wear trends are a good indication that engine is mechanically sound.

[ 04-09-2003: Message edited by: RichBailey ]</p>

I've never had my oil tested so I'd appreciate a short course in
what it entails.

1. How big a sample?
2. What is used for a sample container?
3. What is the best way to collect a sample?
4. How often should it be done?
5. Cost per analysis?
6. Shipping cost?
7. Will a dealer pay any attention to abnormal values?
8. What the heck is ferrography?
9. Recommended Labs?
10. Any other good information about getting our oil tested?

Thanks,

56Nomad

My Take ...


1. How big a sample?

*Three four oz


2. What is used for a sample container?


* The bottle comes in the kit....


3. What is the best way to collect a sample?

*Hot with a Fumuto valve drain off at least a quart first....


4. How often should it be done?


*Depends on you, what you chose for drain intervals ....

5. Cost per analysis?


*Varys around twenty bucks ...

6. Shipping cost?

*Should be included ....


7. Will a dealer pay any attention to abnormal values?

* Only if you showed them ... I would think this could show go maintenance records if your vin is clearly shown on report ...


8. What the heck is ferrography?

*=&gt;http://www.predictusa.com/ferrography.htm


9. Recommended Labs?


*I liked the way this report was ...=&gt;http://www.blackstone-labs.com/body_index.html


10. Any other good information about getting our oil tested?

*I like the idea that it is an early warning sign for a potential problem ...


Mac

*

[ 05-22-2003: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

I had my oil analyzed for the first time at my last oil change. The Blackstone kit comes with a bottle to catch your oil (about 4 oz.). It comes with another bottle to put the oil bottle in. The outer bottle has a mailing label. It cost $1.52 to send it back to Blackstone. The cost of analysis is $20. Check out my report.

http://www.geocities.com/one_badz71/blackstone49964.jpg

You've gotten good answers from mackin on all of them. I'll just add my $.02 to a couple of them.

4. Either when you change your oil or some other interval around that time. By that I mean, if you change your oil at 5,000 miles, sample then. If you are going for extended drain intervals, sample at the same time you would change your filter.

7. Only if the hunyuck knows what he's (she's) looking at. You may find one, but the smart ones are a rare breed indeed. If you find one be sure you treat them right.

9. I use Oil Analyzers. Only because I use Amsoil and they have a long history with that oil. Not to mention it costs me $14.95 a test.

10. Getting your oil tested is a great way to really take a look inside your engine to see if there are any potential problems in the making. But it is not as good as ferrography. You should consider ferrography if you get a couple of oil samples that are in question. Then you will have a definate answer to what is causing the error. For routine purposes, regular oil analysis (viscosity, ph, titration, spectrographic analysis, etc.) is good enough. If you want to see the kind of information that you get with an analysis, you can check mine out here http://amianthus.home.sprynet.com/Oilanalysis.xls

George Morrison is a great resource for this kind of information in the fact that he's probably forgotten more about lubricants than you or I will ever know. Be honored that he spends as much time on this site as he does (he does make his rounds though). Top shelf individual for sure.

[ 05-23-2003: Message edited by: Amianthus ]</p>

Just recieved latest oil analysis results.
Curious to see what others have found, especially Mobil users.
Any oil experts feel free to comment.


If anyone wants to compare their brand........

Using Rotella 5-40 syn. sample at 24,603
5,566 miles on oil, AC filter.

Comments:
"TBN = 10.8 indicating plenty of active additive remaining in oil"
"Insolubles low at 0.1% showing good filtration and complete combustion"

All elements (20) in normal range except for these 2.
Copper was 18 ppm vs. 9 ppm avg
Lead 9 ppm vs. 4 ppm avg

18 Others (in ppm):

Alum. 1
Chrom. 0
Iron 12
Tin 0
Molyb. 0
Nickel 0
Mang. 0
Silv. 0
Titan. 0
Potas. 6
Boron 2
Silic. 7 (Amsoil filter)
Sodium 2
Calcium 3741
Phosph. 838
Magnes. 6
Zinc 969
Barium 1

Properties:

SUS Viscosity = 72.3
Flashpoint = 440
Fuel % = &lt;0.5
Antifreeze % = 0.0
Water % = 0.0
Insolubles = 0.1

I am certainly not an oil expert, but I will add a few comments. I have had three oil analysis's done on my truck (only 14K mile total).

Each time the copper has been lower. Seems to be a trend with these engines. If I recall correctly, I remember reading on this forum where George Morrison indicated that higher copper levels were a characteristic of Isuzu motors. Maybe do a search to find that topic.

The other item I have had warnings about is the silicon. This parameter has been steadily decreasing also. The last oil change it was down to 10. It had previously been 35 and 20.

I have found the following website to be a good resource for oil and oil analysis related questions/answers:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi


Alan