Trouble shooting - front end shake

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10-20-2006, 16:24
rtphillips370

Trouble shooting - front end shake

Over the course of this year, my dually has developed a shake in the steering wheel when driving between 35 to 45 MPH, regardless if the truck is empty or loaded and the problem is more noticable during turns than straight ahead and it is a intermintent problem that on occasion does not occur however, it happens more often than not.

I have replaced the steering gear box, I have had all 7 rims and tires checked for true and balance and have tried rotating tires, and yet the problem persists. approximately 4 years ago it was aligned and the tie rods replaced, any ideas what else could cause this shake? thanks...
10-20-2006, 20:53
redbird2

front end shake

Have you recheck the idler assmebly if it would be loose it could be causing that . Does it make a differance with or with brake apllication possible wraped rotor when the brakes released less noticable with slight or low brake application you feel it.
good luck
10-21-2006, 04:37
DA BIG ONE

Shake

I would check the front dualie wheel adapters for trueness, then check hub/bearing assemblies.

Not having a dualie I do have a 2500 4x4 and have changed out frt hub/bearings well before 100k
10-21-2006, 07:04
rtphillips370

The shake feels if it is dampened when applying the brake, I have not had the ball joints, pitman or idler arm changed and last check a year ago from the local heavy vehicle mechanic who checked it and the alignment states they appeared to be fine back then, I also am running class "D" tires...
05-08-2007, 01:29
rtphillips370

update - still need help!!!

Well I am still trying to figure out this mystery, to date since starting this thread, I have replaced the steering gear box, idler arm and all of the front bearings. I have also had all 7 rims and tires checked for balance, trueness and rotation and they all pass. The rotors I purchased new approx four years ago. The idler arm I just replaced this past week and since then the shake is 80% gone compared to before replacement.

BEFORE replacement, the shake was intermittent between 30-45 MPH didn't matter if i was accelerating, slowing or cruising, nor did it matter if I applied the brakes, lastly, the shake was more prevalent at times during turns (S-curves) at these speeds or when towing my RV. Moreover, the shake could be felt throughout the truck and not just in the steering wheel.

Now SINCE the replacement of the bearings and idler arm, the shake is very minor and only in the vicinity of 40 MPH, and slightly more prevalent during deceleration / braking, and at times, during turns (S-curves) at 40 MPH.

Now when pulling the RV, both before and after the replacement of the idler arm / bearings... During accelerating up from stop through the 40 MPH range, the shake at times (intermittently), will get so bad that the whole truck shakes so badly (including the steering wheel) that I have no choice but to stop the truck quickly to maintain control. This has never happened at speed or on deceleration / braking with the RV because when this occurs at this severity, i cannot get through 40MPH. although stopping and then starting again, will diminish the shake but not alleviate it...

The truck has 150,000 Miles on it, and i am considering having the upper/lower ball joints replaced, tie rods and possibly the center link, even though the local shop doesn't find anything wrong with them, I am also entertaining purchasing an after market steering stabilizer shock absorber from JC Whitney (I don't know if it will help) like those seen on most 4X4's.

I have had one mechanic advise me that if the hydro booster / power steering pump go bad (weak pressure from the PS pump)... will let the steering gear box get sloppy. And he advised to replace the power steering pump and get rid of the hydro boost and add a large vacuum pump and a vacuum assist to my brakes in lieu of the hydro boost assist it has now.

Either way, I am looking in the neighborhood of $500 or so, maybe more to rebuild the front end steering components or go with a rather drastic departure from original equipment on a 'maybe' something that I am not comfortable with.

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions on how to solve this puzzle? its driving me nuts and possibly broke ;)
05-08-2007, 06:45
redbird2

shake

it this shake only in the streeing wheel have you checked the driveline it has a 2 piece driveline is the carrier bearing good if it is loose it will cause a speed vibration also check all the u joints as most of those trucks have no greaseable joints maybe one is stiff causing the drive line to vibrate and when you brake it then not under a load so it doesn't vibrate as much, easy to check won't cost you anything to drop shaft and check just a little time

the idea of replaceing the hydro boost with vacuum set up not wise idea IMO that just added more things to break on the truck you can not buy at any local parts place or dealer

just an idea
good luck
05-08-2007, 13:10
rtphillips370

Quote:

Originally Posted by redbird2

it this shake only in the steering wheel

Its mostly in the steering wheel but the more violent the shake becomes more it is fel throughout the front of the truck...
05-19-2007, 13:07
cshade

i have the same exact problem on my 94 suburban 2500 4x4. I replaced the shocks, steering stabilizer, and greased the drivetrain, ball joints, and tie rods and the effect was minimized but still there. Interesting that you mentioned the power steering pump, because mine is going out. Will update when I replace it. By the way remanufactured ps pumps are like 100-150 at stores and online...40 without the resovoir, but you have to press it back in yourself.

let us know your progress!

--Charles
05-20-2007, 09:15
Yukon6.2

Hi
I have had the same problem on my tow truck.It is a little diferent than your truck,its a 80 1 ton 4x4,soild front axle.It gets so bad that the whole truck shakes around the same speed as you describe.Each time this has presented itself i have replaced the streeing stabilizer and the problem went away.This last time it was doing it while i still had my winter tires on the front,switched tires and balanced them,still would shake changed stabilizer,shake gone.When it shakes crazy,i could sometimes slow down,make some radical left-right turns and it would sometimes go away.Disclaimer only make the radical turns unloaded and on an empty road with no trafic;)
Good Luck
Thomas
05-20-2007, 12:31
rtphillips370

Thanks for the input, ill let you know when i address it with some new front end parts, right now its at the shop for the injectors, intercooler and a FSD cooler...
05-20-2007, 16:23
cshade

wow seems like a lot of people have the same problems. Look forward to answers! bump...
05-21-2007, 07:48
HH

I would look at your upper ball joints and upper control arm bushings.
07-07-2007, 21:13
rtphillips370

As promised here is my update to my situation with the front end shake. I had the upper and lower ball joints replaced and the shake went away... So that ends that particular problem for me, thanks to all that gave their input, it is appreciated.
09-12-2007, 20:15
cshade

before we get crazy this was my solution

My speed wobble was pretty apparent at 35ish....the answer: A new set of tires. One of the old tires' steel belt separated (invisible from the outside) and caused a condition that it couldn't be balanced...oh it could technically be balanced, but it didn't fix the wobble. I traded out the ultra-vintage cracked up michellins for a new set of Goodyear wrangler silent armors. Problem solved. (The truck looks pretty sweet too)
09-14-2007, 01:04
wade-ve7trw

front end shake

rtphillips370: as hh mentioned check out the upper and lower control arm bushings-they will give the same results at various speeds.

Yukon6.2: on a 80 k30 4x4(dana 60 front-end) check the upper kingpins on the front axle- if one is loose (they tread in) it will shimmy
09-15-2007, 09:29
Yukon6.2

Hi
Thanks for the suggestion Wade,i did check them when i did the front brngs and u joints,they seemed tight,mabey i should take the covers off and check them anyway.
looks like another entry on the roundtoit list:D
09-15-2007, 14:00
ccatlett1984

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukon6.2

Hi
I have had the same problem on my tow truck.It is a little diferent than your truck,its a 80 1 ton 4x4,soild front axle.It gets so bad that the whole truck shakes around the same speed as you describe.Each time this has presented itself i have replaced the streeing stabilizer and the problem went away.This last time it was doing it while i still had my winter tires on the front,switched tires and balanced them,still would shake changed stabilizer,shake gone.When it shakes crazy,i could sometimes slow down,make some radical left-right turns and it would sometimes go away.Disclaimer only make the radical turns unloaded and on an empty road with no trafic;)
Good Luck
Thomas

you have the classic "death wobble" you need to rebuild the kingpins on the truck, it will make the wobble completely disappear. I had the same issues :)
09-15-2007, 14:04
ccatlett1984

Quote:

Originally Posted by wade-ve7trw

Yukon6.2: on a 80 k30 4x4(dana 60 front-end) check the upper kingpins on the front axle- if one is loose (they tread in) it will shimmy

NO they dont thread in.

there are 4bolts/studs that hold a cap on the top of the knuckle. under the cap is a spring that keeps pressure on a nylon bushing that rides on the metal kingpin thats screwed into the inner C of the axle. to rebuild the kingpin you take the cap off and replace the nylon bushing and the spring, you only have to change the actual kingpin if its damaged. and the above rebuild can be done with the spindle and hub on the truck, only have to put the axle on jackstands and take the tires off.
09-15-2007, 17:35
wade-ve7trw

top kingpins

the actual kingpin itself dose thread in and the one on drivers side has a nasty habit of working loose. On checking at an alignment shop they can miss this problem if they are not familiar with a dana 60 frontend. But you are right on all that is needed to rebuilt the kingpins is jack it up and remove the plate and change the spring and bushing.
09-15-2007, 23:54
ccatlett1984

Quote:

Originally Posted by wade-ve7trw

the actual kingpin itself dose thread in and the one on drivers side has a nasty habit of working loose.

I've never heard of them working loose, quite the opposite in fact. On my buddies truck we had to have a piece of 3/4 hex stock bent to form a huge allen wrench, because we kept snapping 3/4drive breaker bars. It took a lot of heat and a 8ft pipe to finally break it loose, and all the threads I've ever seen about changing out the pin itself describe the same issues getting them to come loose.
09-16-2007, 19:45
wade-ve7trw

kingpins

same problem on last rebuild--passenger side lots of heat and long snipe. A** over tea-kettle when it came loose and exter 1/2hr picking up tool box:o:o
driver side all setup to use heat and snipe instead used fingers and removed old kingpin
04-03-2016, 09:53
Orca

front end shake at 40 mph

I have had the front end shake for a couple of months now, i recently put new shocks on and its has gone away....

its was violent as mentioned where you had to really slow down, it turns out that one of my shocks was blown, and the person before me never changed them...

so maybe this is an easy fix....

its for my dually which occasional has a load as i use it for work.