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Let's hear your thoughts on this video since you all own D-Max's.Before you go flame me I happen to like D-maxs..they would be my second choice in truck.This is a long video, so dial up guys beware ;)
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...af013f4333.htm
thats a bad link, can't watch it.
Try this one - The Dmax wins.... as you would expect......
It may not be towing, but still a spanking....
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...b3015e6155.htm
Don't be hijacking my thread...go post that in the competition forum!:rolleyes: ...My video is real world, that is not
Your video link isnt working.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cummnz
Ok try this link...
http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...af013f4333.htm
Welcome to TDP Forums, Cummnz!
The video doesn't reflect an objective test comparison.
That whiner should go and buy a Dodge. He didn't take any comparitive factors into consideration. True that a specific production run of Duramax LLY's did have heating issues, but they are limited to those runs, and effective remedies are available for cheap or free. Only a small % of that run had the problem, but we don't know why. None of the other models have this issue.
Comparitive factors:
He had no idea what he was competing with. A 90's Cummins can't compete with any Duramax, heat or no. The Dodge driver was probably wondering why he couldn't shake that Chevy after spending 8 grand on upgrades. Doubt he had his A/C on, but we'll never know.
The load he had was considerably heavier than what the Dodge was hauling.
The coach/jeep is much more aerodynamic than a backward-trailered U-haul truck. Huge factor at those speeds. Keystone Cougar trailers are lightweights.
His A/C was on from the start.
P0193??? Probably his fault (should have changed the fuel filter). This will very likely lose his case. Still, limp mode is better than dead in traffic.
He may have a valid claim for his issues, but he needs to compare apples to apples if he wants to use it as a factor of argument.
If your first choice is Cummins, stay with it. Not likely you'll be happy with anything else. If you want a GM product, don't get an LLY and you'll sleep better. You won't shake that video, and will be looking for flaws.
You brought your question to a GM Diesel enthusiest website. Expect some bias. You'll get the same at the other sites, but probably worse than you'll find here. Brand loyalty here usually doesn't cross into ignorance.
DMAXmaverick: Thanks for the response..it turns out he did sue GM and won $30,500 and he kept the truck.Now..to correct you if I may on the first paragraph you typed..A}The dodge was a 2001-2002 model B}The truck was probably stock condsidering there were no gauges on the pillar and if he DID spend $8,000 he would have budgeted for the gauges as well C}There was no black smoke EVER from the dodge,you know any slightly modified Cummins huffs like a freight train under load. D}It was 90+ degrees and HUMID outside there, {i used to live in that part of Texas} we NEVER drove without the A/C on..EVER! E}That jeep and trailer weighed 2/3 of what the Chevy was towing, yes 1/3 less weight slightly more aerodynamic makes a difference,not to the point of two stock trucks running up and hill and the 04.5' LLY getting pounded on the grade that bad. As far as I am concerned looking at this logically and not from a Cummins OR D-max bias the odds were fairly even maybe slightly more in favor {because of a small weight difference in the dodge}.This particular guy in the GM had an overheating issue regardless and I'm glad he got his money, even if he was a moron lol;)
If you assume a truck, even a Dodge, is stock because you don't see gages or smoke, you'll be one of the "passed and the curious". Most of the Dodge owners I know make very respectible power, and don't smoke. There's no rule that says your gages have to be on the pillar. Mine aren't. Get out and see more Dodges. Cheaper upgrades make more smoke.
A stock 2001-2002 Dodge won't compete with an LLY. Perhaps the Dodge would have an advantage once the LLY overheats, but he couldn't gain from the start, before he overheated.
A/C use is your choice. Most of my heavy towing is done in 100
Maverick..Maybe you should read what I posted in my first post..I can already tell you are a guy who jumps to conclusions by the way you speak here..as well as assuming this dodge is tuned up with $8,000 worth of upgrades {but yeah no gauges or smoke so he's the silent horsepower guy who sneaks up on you LOL!!} ok..assuming that AND here's what I said in my first post..so if any "brand war" is happening, then you need to read more carefully and welcome the Cummins guys as you would another Chevy guy..
Quote:
Before you go flame me I happen to like D-maxs..they would be my second choice in truck.
It appears to me that you jump to conclusions. What's your real purpose here? It sure seems like it is just to "stir the pot". The problem is, there are far more stories of Dodges being left in the dust (yes, even by my old 6.5) by Duramaxes than there are of Duramaxes being left in the dust by Dodges.
In this one instance, in a not even close comparison, your favorite Dodge won. Was that you driving the Dodge? As D-Mav said, windage load increases rapidly as speed increases...try as a cubic function of the speed. The whole thing smells of a set-up to me, but there I go jumping to conclusions. Take your video and go to the TDR site. They'll love you over there.
In fact, since 2001, the Dodge Cummins has been the weak sister in the stock Diesel performance department.
Again, what is your purpose for this post?
Hello? ECHO ECHO....I even put in quotes what I said to start so this won't happen..easy there quick draw mcgraw!:eek:
I'm not flaming you. You asked for "thoughts", and I gave you mine. I jumped to no conclusions, just offered some explanations for what seems to be a very lopsided comparison. The Duramax driver, and perhaps you, jumped to the conclusions. The Duramax driver in the video (I watched all of it) may have issues with his truck, but he had an agenda.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cummnz
You, as a "Cummins guy", are very welcome here. Bring your friends, too. But as I said, be forwarned. If your purpose is to instigate and solicit brand controversy, it won't work here. You can do that on just about any other Diesel site, but it isn't accepted here. That's not a policy, written or otherwise, but the members will tear you apart. Most of our members are here to avoid all the bs and hype on the other sites. We will be fair and impartial, but this is a GM Diesel enthusiest site, so expect some brand loyalty.
My comment about the Dodge driver and $8000 upgrades he may have, meant nothing. It was just an off-the-cuff comment. I saw just as much evidence of his performance mod's as the Duramax driver did. None. If you want a fair evaluation of a contest, show me a fair contest. You jumped to the conclusion the Dodge was stock. I simply offered another explanation. And, as I said before, gages and smoke (or the lack of) is no indication of performance upgrades. Throw enough money at any of these trucks, and you can get competitive power without smoke, and there is still no rule saying your gages have to be on the pillar.
If you want a good side by side comparison, bring your worst and best to Montana this summer. Join in on the annual pull off. All comers are welcome. Read the Pull Off articles and you'll find fairness. If you show up, your performance will be noted equally.
Go to McRat Racing.com and take on Casper, or Wendy his Duramax Race Trucks with EFI Live and Suncoast transmissions etc. Get a lesson in what is fast on the track. This Mcrat is REAL Put it up if you got it pal!!!!
You gotta watch these GM guys, they gang up on ya.....J/K!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Cummnz
The Cummins is a great motor, I have driven and towed with several and really liked them...I haven't watched the video because I have dial-o-slow, but I say bring it on!
You should come to the pull-off this summer, its a good time and for the last few years GM has taken the belt home...
Chris
I'll do the thinnin around here, Bubba Louie!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cummnz
You think a lame "disclaimer" can let you do your dirty work? Again, I ask what is your purpose? Are you trying to fix a problem? Are you looking for solutions? Or are you just trying to poke at your "second" choice truck?
Me thinks the latter...
pull off? lol yeah with my 2 wheel drive truck? puhlease guys! I would just sit and spin the clutch or tires.Come back to me though when your Max has close to 400k miles on it and we'll tear both motors apart to see which one has the least amount of internal wear :D ..no serious, if I had the cash I would love to build a D-Max Regular Cab 4x4 to race..sled pulling is kinda pointless,but still fun to watch anyway. Now my hats off to Nick D and Mike Tomac for sure their trucks are the real deal..;)
Read the articles.
The pull off is on the highway, pulling a heavy trailer up a grade. Not unlike what was going on in that video.
BTW...
Lots of high mileage Duramax's out there. A lot less have blown up or worn out than Cummins. Don't believe it? Find a blown or worn out Duramax, then come back and we'll continue the longevity argument.
Tomac won't tell you how many engines he's gone through, neither will Nick..
Stock VS. Stock...Cummins has been on the road many more years and has quite the track record compared to Duramax..although D-max has a pretty good one from 01' til present day.Bias or not, you can't argue the track record of Cummins in the long haul.;)
Click this LINKQuote:
Originally Posted by Cummnz
Give it a read.
Chris
Chris ..was that your 99 Superduty in the competition?Nice looking truck there man!:D That looks like a cool test and I love Montana's scenery alot.However, my truck is a manual and it wouldn't be fair to have to shift.Let's see the test with a 30ft. gooseneck loaded with iron go up the hill and test manual trans trucks in their own competition..bumper pull trailers are interesting to say the least;)
I watched your video. Well, that Duramax had surely some cooling issues. Said that, he started already off in the beginnig with a pretty hot engine and complains that he can't keep up with the truck.
The boardcomputer will reduce power when the engine is hot like that. I could read that on his display. No wonder why the Dodge walked away... funny thing is he always says his coolant temps and that the engine is hot, bla bla bla... the dodge is walking away, bla bla bla engine is still hot and dinging like crazy, but doesn't say anything about the reduced power.
Second thing, his truck went into a limp mode (not enough fuel pressure in the rail). Look at his tank! Its bone dry. the pump probably sucked some air going up or downhill.
That was done a few years ago. A Big Tex gooseneck with 16,270 lb. of lumber was pulled up the hill. Guess what...the Duramax won that too.
If you read the article, there was a 1996 Dodge manual that competed last year. It's interesting that you are talking a lot, but find all kinds of reasons not to enter your truck in the competition. The Pull-Off has been going on for seven years now and is a good way to compare trucks. Everyone pulls the same trailer on the same hill.
Yes, that is my truck, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cummnz
The scenery is awesome! Your truck would do fine, you may have a little slower ET but your top speed at the mile would be generally uneffected. Many manual trans. have run the hill, as Big Ron pointed out there was one last year.
A heavier trailer just means slower times, the power differential would still remain the same, 10,000lbs on a 6% grade from a dead stop is pretty heavy!
If you come, it would give you a more complete understanding of what it takes to be competitive reguardless of brand.
Its amazing to watch trucks that make over 500hp run the hill!
Chris
Hey Cummnz,
Where did you find the year of the Dodge?? I've been everywhere I can think of and can't find reference to the Dodge's year:confused: ... I don't remember TxChis saying in the video... but I fell asleep between milemarker 475 and 500!!:D:rolleyes: Do you have any links to this info??
My 2WD, Manual Tranny D-max held the stocker crown in the pull-off for quite awhile . . .until the stock D/As grew another gear and several more HP. As a 2002 is didn't have any cooling problems . . .infact it didn't even engage the fan clutch until 2 miles up the grade . . . Toughguy was riding shotgun on my second attempt, when I learned that even stock the D-max can overwhelm the clutch if you're mean enough to it. I let a little of the smoke out of the original clutch, but it sure cured the clutch chatter in reverse problem I'd had up to then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cummnz
On a differnt day I pulled the 28' 5th wheel up I-70 west of Denver . . . it was 103 degrees in Denver and 90 at the tunnels . . .went all the way up at the speed limit with the A/C blowing hard . . . the fan was singing most of the time but the temp never budged.
I still hardly see manual trans trucks VS. auto trucks a fair race as far as time is concerned, i'd like to see a manual only class.
Baker2Acre:I did mention that I knew the Dodge in that video was BETWEEN a certain year range.By the factory wheels that are on it,and cab design with the quad cab I can spot those years {late 2000-2002 24v dodges} a mile away,trust me .Mine is a 98 the first year of the quad cab,last year of the old 12 valve motor,last year of the pull-out headlight switch and in late 99-2000 they swapped over to the newer style factory rims like this truck had on.:D <--sorry I know waaaay too much about the certain factory options dodge has lol:p
Change the rules?? Handicap?? That would defeat the purpose. Run what you brung. Although it can be competitive, it is not necessarily a competition. It is a comparison, with a focus on comparing what the big 3 have to offer year after year. If you read the article, you'd see that. There's no trophy for the winner, and no disgrace for the loser. "I can't keep up because I have a manual" is just an excuse. If they (manuals) are so inferior, why are they popular, or even available?
A competent handshaker has no problem keeping up with autos, even at the track.
You make many assumptions and conclusions based on unknowns. Unless you know more than what you are telling us, there's no way you can make such an assumption about a vehicle you know nothing about. Things aren't always what they seem. People change wheels, etc. all the time. The year and power level of that Dodge is absolutely irrelevant, without seeing a scale ticket to go with it. I'm not questioning your knowledge of the Dodge trucks, just that you don't know, or aren't telling, about the vehicle in question. Don't read too much into it. It is what it is.
Thanks Cummnz...
I am aware of the model changes thru the years of the 2nd Gen as well.... but all of the model changes you mentioned, aside from the hairline of the Q-Cab eluded my eyes in the video... even with heavy pause action and zooming. The best I could figure was that it was no older then '98 and could not see the "24V" on the emblem or the wide slot wheels (or the headlight pull or turn switch for that matter;) ) to move it up through the ISB years.... thought maybe you saw it mentioned somewhere.
Maverick:To have a manual trans TRYING TO MAKE THE BEST TIME in anything IE: DRAG RACING,or see whose fastest up the mountain in this case IS a handicap sir, with an automatic you put it in drive and put it to the floor,you loose a TON of time and Boost in between shifts in a manual..and they are great NORMALLY, because most guys towing 10k or better up the grades in Montana are not racing anyone, they are trying to get the load delivered safely and efficiently;) A run what you brung would be ok, but there's NO ONE that can hang with an automatic, they will win everytime out.:cool: BTW:The dodge in question in that video, I swear on whatever you want me to swear on I am not affiliated with them or ever saw that truck in my life..but I am curious now what if anything was done to it.
Baker2Acre:Pause the video and look at the wheels reallllly close and you will see the difference in style from the 99 or older wheels.I am 100% confident the truck is a 2000+ model.;)
Only if you don't know how to shift...;)
sorry I don't feel like speed shifting my NV4500 with 400k miles on it..that wouldn't be so great for the roadways of Montana.;)
Open minded Cummins guy here. I would love to do that competition ... er uh comparison. I really love that stuff. Not to try to win, but just to participate and hang out with other diesel lovers.
Mine's a 6 speed 4X4, very mildly bombed. It sounds like a heck of a long drive from Alabama, just to tote a trailer up a hill. And I'm already starting to slip my clutch, so I might be a bit skeered about that. Would there be anyway to get my fuel to/from Montana subsidized, in order to get a manual tranny Cummins in the picture? :D
I'm gonna go back and look on like the 2nd page and see if there was a link to the Montana pull-off. If not, somebody shoot me a link. Thanks.
P.S. - Shoooot, I just previewed my post and saw my signature. That's old, same truck though. Will have to update and remove some of the extra junk.
- JyRO
There is your link....Quote:
Originally Posted by Tough Guy
Its a long way for you to come, but many other travel from great distance as well, Kennedy drives from Wisconsin, Ronniejoe, Indiana and Ken Florey and Moudry come from the west coast. plus many others from around the country...
There are many things to see and do here in Montana, several parks, Glacier and Yellowstone and all the sights in-between! You would have a great time and being with other Diesel enthusiasts is always fun.
Chris
http://inlinediesel.com/deathmatch/
Just a joke guys, don't get too ticked off lol..maybe it will make a few of you laugh a little..pretty good imagination though.:D
Now that there's funny.....I don't care who y'are.....
Here we see the only way the Dodge can win!:D
The inferno that consumed the Duramax is the magnesuim front diff catching aflame and it burns like hell. Too bad that was a nice Chevy trying with all its guts to out pull that big bad Dodge. Guess I'd better look for a used Ram for a work truck to save my LBZ before it goes out in a blaze of glory.
My LB7 would have run away from both of them pulling my 14K road loaded 5er.
Denny
Know where there's some documentation on this? If it was a court suit there's got to be a public record somewhere. I'd like to take a look.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cummnz