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I'm in the market for a new truck and have decided on a Chev or GMC with a DMAX. I'm not sure if I want to shell out the extra 2300 for the Allison. How does the 6 speed perform? I know the allison has the grade braking feature, but could this not be accomplished by manually shifting the 6 speed? 2300 clams can add a lot of other bell and whistles. Any thoughts...
Thanks in advance for any feedback..
Ron
The Allison is worth every penny of it IMHO. I have had no problems to date with mine, it shifts great and when it's time to hitch up she pulls just as well. I also have the ZF in the 3500 and I'll have to say that it's also a compliment to the Duramax or the 8100 as well, once you get by the quirky shift pattern and the "stick in a bucket of marbles" feel for the first few thousand miles it shifts nice and smooth. I will have to say that if your going to tow/haul at or above max GCVW you may want to consder the manual. This is why we ordered the 3500 with the ZF, it's loaded about 60%to 70% of the time and selecting your own gears becomes nice (and tiring). Also another thing you may want to keep in mind is the ZF's are hard to come by, you will surely find the truck you want with the Allison faster than the ZF. ;)
Thanks for the info DSLPOWR and you are exactly right and trying to find a 6 speed. My local GM dealer located 4 within 100 miles. He wouldn't tell me where they were but I managed to locate one on GM Buypower. I have test drove an allison and would like to test the manual before I make up my mind. I shouldn't be towing more than 7000 lbs. In the future though I plan on getting a 5th wheel travel trailer maybe in the 10k lbs ballpark.
Ron
From what you describe I personally would lean toward the Allison, even for the extra 2k you can't go wrong. (Definite reasale value) And with the tow/haul mode that includes the grade breaking feature it makes it reeeeeeeeal nice when your cruising and don't have to shift all the time. Just a thought.
Regards-
Ron, personal preference!!!
I was also reluctant to shell out the extra $2300.
I am really not a big fan of auto's to begin with.
I had 2 K1500's w/TH700 and not much luck with them. Traded one (about 75K mi.) I figure within about 1,000 mi. of giving out. Other on I traded at 40k mi. with very irregular shift points, did not trust that tranny to make 50K. Just traded my 2000 K2500 with MT1 in Feb for the Dmax. This one blew torque converter with 3k mi. left on warranty.
You might say I have had bad luck with auto's. This is why I went with ZF6.
Now, none of those mentioned above were Allison's, and you'll see here in forum 99.9875487% (my own scientific estimate) of guys are happy with Allison. If I had read this forum before ordering my truck I might have given auto another chance.
So from a guy that doesn't really care for auto's... Pro's and Con's for both, do some research here, read everyone's opinions, take advantage of the experience the guys here have. 99.9875487% of the guys here will give you excellent and honest advice. In the end, get the one that's gonna keep ya grinnin' for the longest time.
I saved enough money to buy over 8 years worth of morning commute coffee, but it's a little harder to drink!
The initial cost of the tranny is one thing but another is the cost of servicing the automaic. My last truck was a manual as well and I spent $0 on service in over 200,000 miles (340,000 kms)
Never had to replace or fix anything, not even the clutch. (I did put a new clutch cylinder in the truck)
I dislike autos as well and I'm very pleased with the six speed after 1.5 years of driving the Dmax. I prefer to choose my own gears when loaded or in winter driving.
I waited 4 months for my truck to be built but it was worth the wait.
Good luck making your choice.
:D :D :D
Ron,
As mackey_62 stated, it's a personal preference thing. I have the same outlook as Crafty. I'm just a manual kind of guy (even my guns are either pumps or revolvers). I've owned manual transmission pickups since 1978. Never had any problems with any of them. Never changed clutches (did have to change the throw out bearing on my '79) and I average around 200k on my gas pickups before selling them (I'm expecting a lot more miles out of this BEAST).
Most people think driving a stick in heavy traffic is a burden...to me, it gives me something to do! :D A side note, my wife does not like driving a standard...not that had any impact on my decision! [img]tongue.gif[/img] Good luck on your decision, I truly do not believe you can go wrong with either choice.
MaxRock
Like said before the ZF-6 is real nice. I had some of the jerkiness issues at first but now I've gotten real use to it. If you want a quick truck for blowing away the PSD's spend the money on the Allison. If it's a torque monster stay with the 6spd. I think theres a lot of people who would have loved to have gotten the ZF but did not want to wait and GM is not building them like they are the Allison although it's standard. Just a way to make more money. Over 4000 miles on mine now with an avg mpg of 19.8 combined city\highway running it hard.
I had the Dmax/Ally combo for a year before I traded for the Dmax/ZF. I was never happy with the Allison. I had some issues with the shift programming and my dealer was useless as far as being willing to even attempt an update. Another thing that made me nervous was the 3 year 36K warranty on a tranny that costs upwards of 7,000 dollars to replace. Mileage with the Ally was averaging around 17.8 unloaded and 12-13 towing. Mileage with the 6speed is running 20.5 unloaded and the same 12-13 towing. Overall I like the manual much better than the auto even though the Dmax in front of the Auto is MUCH faster. I didn't buy the truck to race anyway.
Geez, how did I forget one of the most important Pro's????
Can't count how many times I've loaned my old trucks out (auto's). And have them come back a lot lighter in the tank. :mad:
Have yet to have anyone ask to borrow this one, 4 months and counting. [img]smile.gif[/img] Idiots don't know what they're missing. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
I haven't won any drag races (or tried to) but this thing is fun to drive. [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]
Personally I want a stick. The only point I'll add is both GM in general and the the fact an auto has a column shifter make certain creature comforts available only with autos. The 2003's are suppose to have available a Bose system and DVD player both mounted in the console. Knowing GM they will require the full console that nixes the idea of a stick. It all depends on what you want. With three kids I may just add the Alli to my next truck because nothing is more soothing than NOT hearing my kids on trips in my Olds Silhoutte van with video system.
The Allison is by far the best automatic put in a pickup to date, and I'm glad the guys who have them like them. If they ever build a Duramax Suburban I'll have one with an automatic for my wife. (The only things she doesn't like about my truck is driving the 6 speed and leaving the stroller out in the breeze...so no auto's or shells on my truck ;) (Don't tell her!).
Like many others here I prefer manuals and couldn't justify spending the extra $ on the Allison. As for the "Too much work in traffic" argement, or "Too hard to drink the coffee." It is not hard to drive this truck at any speed between 0 and 60 MPH in 4th gear, as long as it's not loaded. Any speed down to 10 mph can be done without depressing the clutch (in 4th). If you can't exert yourself that much then how'd you manage to climb up into the seat?
I'll admit there was a little jerking and occasionally a completely different gear than intended at first (like reverse instead of 2nd :eek: or 6th instead of 4th) but after 3 months I'm smoother in this truck than in my wife's minivan with its automatic. WAY smoother than my father-in-laws TH-700R4 (of course it barks the tires on the first 1-2 shift of the day!)
Other than drag racing I can't think of any way the Allison would make my truck better (Well, I can't get a Juice bax for the ZF :mad: ), and resale is not much of an issue because by the time I get rid of a truck it's worth about $1,200 no matter what engine, transmission or drive wheel count it has. I don't know what it will cost to rebuild the Allison 1000, but I do know that if I ever find out it'll be second hand!
The last clutch I replaced was on an '83 S-10 4x4 in 1989. The damper springs would break like clockwork at 30,000 mile intervals. The '91 still has the factory clutch at 177,500 miles.
WOW, I leave for a day and come back to all this great info... Thanks everyone.
I now drive a D**ge 2500 with a cummins and automatic. This auto is junk. I know that the allison is a much better auto than the one Dodge put in there truck. I've never had an automatic in a truck until this one and I have to say I would probably prefer changing gears myself.
I would like to find a 6 speed and try it out before I make my decision. Does anyone know where I might find one? I would be willing to drive to hades and back to find one.
Thanks,
Ron
Ron, Good luck finding ZF6 if you go that way.
I know there wasn't one in three states when I wanted to test drive one about 6-7 months ago.
Hopefully you don't get stuck ordering one and end up with that '03 overgrown stationwagon on steroids looking thing. I think I'd wait for next body-style change. :(
Anyway, you ever find yourself up here in Yankee country give me a shout. Be happy to let you put a few miles on mine.
Sorry though, she's not for sale. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Mackey.. Thanks for the offer. You're right about the new body style. I'm not crazy about it either. I would love to find a '02 with a 6 speed.
Ron
Hey, the Allison is NOT like other autos. It was designed to handle putting 350 hp and 750-800 Ftlb of torque on the ground with out any mods not to mention that it is Smooooooth even when loaded. No other auto can do that for very long. I love the Allison and wouldn't trade it for anything else. Again, it is personal preference. Drive both first, because a cattle hauler I know bought an early 2001 with the ZF and now has the Allison.
In our business (Garbage Removal, Landscaping, Snowplowing) Automatics are the only way to go, I have personally blew up 3 4L80E trannys. However the Allison is awsome shifts nice and smooth, and I guarantee there near impossible to blow up from abuse. I have to say that when the tranny in a pickup is identical to the one In our GMC school bus with a CAT 3126 in front of it its not a throw away tranny. The bus has the same 2 to 1st gear problems as our trucks but has been fine for 20,000 miles so far. I can say though the only things I dont like about the Allison are this: Reverse Is a super low gear like 10 mph in reverse and shes screaming (Maybe a two speed rear end would fix that!!!) I like to fly in reverse snow plowing. The tranny doesnt let the engine lug at all. With diesels you lug the heck out of em before you downshift to the point a gasser would be knocking like crazy. This isnt the case I wish the tranny would work the engine more than it does. Other than that Its been great and I assure you that if you do opt for the Ally you wont be disappointed. From what Ive read there really isnt a big MPG difference between the two either. I ran down to Dover DE. Last weekend Running 75 mph I averaged between 19 and 21 mpg.
Well, the only thing I can comment on this;
I drive a lot when I sleep and the automatic really helps me during these times. :D
Seriously, it is all personal preference...I am in traffic daily and tow a lot on Loooong trips..The thought of pushing a clutch pedal in and out all the time would not make me a friendly driver especially after doing that a couple hundred times a trip.
Depends on your application and whether or not you like to snooze on the long straightaways....
Carry on.... :D