fuel filter/fuel additive .......observation?????

[george morrison]

To echo John Kennedy's comments: we have seen so much evidence through the years in 6.5TD's exhibiting corrosion, damaged pumps and injector units, from free water I feel it so important to 'lock up' water in emulsion, preventing/minimizing free water drop out in the system. As has been discussed here in depth, once a vehicle begins to move, the agitation will bring free water back into semi-emulsion. The water may well make it through the seperator as it is in loose emulsion state. However, if the vehicle is shut down and allowed to sit for a period, once again the water will settle out, this time in the injector pump without chemical emulsion enhancement. Scored pumps, damaged pumps, etc. etc.. This has been the case again and again with the 6.5TD's. I have been in shops with as many as 5 6.5's at a time waiting for completely new fuel systems from corrosion damage.. Free water damage.
Through the magic of chemistry we can lock up free water and prevent its damaging affects.
Engine manufacturer's must of course equip new vehicles with a free water removal system as 90% of end users will not be using any form of emulsifier, or any additization at all! Using emulsifying agents is contrary to what the engine manufacturer's can even think about recommending. Could you imagine buying a new vehicle and page one in the owner's manual says "do not operate this vehicle without using appropriate emusifying fuel additization".. So, they must go with some form of rudimentary water separator, etc.
And it is certainly nice to have it there "just in case". That said, it is a great insurance policy to use additization that will eliminate normal water damage from our fuel systems AND provide all the other additive benefits such as lubricity enhancement, cetane improvement, cold flow and injector detergency...
George Morrison, STLE CLS

[ 11-06-2002: Message edited by: george morrison ]

[ 11-06-2002: Message edited by: george morrison ]</p>

[imported_]

Sooooooo, what's a good emulsifying additive to use? What's the best?

[DmaxMaverick]

Remember this?

http://www.aquazole.com

Imagine adding a de-emulsifying agent to that stuff!

[letsgo]

george

Your last summary just put my mind to rest, I was beginning to wonder if using FPPF additive since new had helped my DURAMAX or just wasting my money.

Spoolin'it

thanks for the filter input.

The two posts fuel filter/fuel additive

http://forum.62-65-dieselpage.com/cg...y&f=3&t=004436

fuel filter test results

http://forum.62-65-dieselpage.com/ub...c&f=3&t=004373

the debates have been very informative and constructive and it is all FREE, when all is resolved I hope that the administrator will do a final summery and post it in the Feature Articles as there is a lot of reading to filter through to find all the pertinent points.

thanks

[ 11-06-2002: Message edited by: letsgo ]</p>

[Spoolin'It]

George,

Comparing our filter to the Stanadyne top-loader in the 6.5 is like comparing the whole truck to a model T. That assembly was designed at least 15 years ago, the whole industry has learned alot since then, if you notice Stanadynes current line doesn't even come close to resembling that. I don't recall how much room there is at the bottom of that unit to store water but I don't believe its very much. If you notice the new Stanadyne and our Racors are radically different designs from that, there is plenty of room for water to fall out and safely be stored.
Thats about as far as I'm going to go with the comparison since I'm still bound by a confidentiality agreement and don't want any trouble.

&gt;Could you imagine buying a new vehicle and page one in the owner's manual says "do not operate this vehicle without using appropriate demusifying fuel additization".. So, they must go with some form of rudimentary water separator, etc.

Yet both Ford and GM have both given their stamp of approval to Stanadyne additives in the past(Ford as recently as '99 for the PS). VW even went as far as to write a service bulletin for the TDI in 2001 recommending Performance Formula, and they don't even have any Stanadyne components in their vehicles. Cat and Deere have also given the seal of approval. If de-mulsification was so bad why are all these OEM's approving it??? I went to FPPF's site and couldn't find any OEM approvals listed for their products and giving the thumbs up to emulsification?

[george morrison]

I well recognize that my position is quite opposite that of many OEM positions concerning the question: "to emulsify or not to emulsify".. Again, my feelings on the subject are the result of 20+ years of experience (notably, 6 inches of scar tissue as previously discussed) in all weather conditions in equipment costing millions of dollars and the resulting hundreds of thousands of dollars of fuel system damage resulting from free water in diesel fuel. In that same time I have never experienced a fuel system failure from emulsified water in diesel fuels.

I am all for demulsification if one has a 10,000 gallon tank with a bottom water drain but once diesel fuel gets into a dynamic, shaking, rattling system, it is too easy for faux-emulsion followed by a Monday morning destroyed injector pump from free water settle.. Been there, done that.. There is just nothing quite like an $18,000 injector pump destroyed by free water and having to authorize the rebuild.
Thus my personal crusade promoting the use of fuel additives containing effective emulsifier agents, along with the other good additive attributes.
George Morrison, STLE CLS

[srubrn]

Somehow I missed this thread before and I just read all of the post. My question is what is a good additive. Is one better than the other?
Kinda makes me want to got back to a gasser!!

[george morrison]

One of the largest purchasers of fuel additives with emulsifying capabilities is the U.S. military.. The army's vehicles have been equipped with water seperation devices for years but learned very early on that as vehicles were placed around the world the most effective way to keep them operational was to use fuel additization that contained a whole host of components most importantly emulsifying chemistry. As equipment is moved around the world, a de-emulsifier in fuel would allow/promote free water to settle out resulting in corrosion in fuel tanks, microbe and algae growth, clogging of fuel filters and non-running equipment.
By using additives with good emulsion capabilities free water was essentially eliminated: eliminate free water, eliminate microbe/algae growth, eliminate system corrosion, eliminate free water freezing, etc. etc..
So, even though equipment manufacturers use/recommend water seperators and demulsifiers, the world's largest customer of rolling stock and diesel fuel uses emulsifying additization in all its diesel fuel.. Something about "their vehicles *have* to run"...

George Morrison, STLE CLS

[srubrn]

George,
Name a good emulsifying agent!!

[srubrn]

Ya'll gotta check this filter out. It's almost unbelievable. Go to this link and tell what you think
http://gulfcoastfilter.com/

[george morrison]

Regarding a good emulsifying agent. I have extensive experience with FPPF and Primrose fuel additives in large fleet application. Both use agressive emulsifiers along with lubricity enhancers, corrosion inhibitors, injector cleansing agents, cetane boost and pour/flock point depressants.
It would be great if someone would put together a listing of which diesel fuel additives emulsify and which de-emulsify water. Product data sheets for some companies are unclear about their exact action with respect to water...
George Morrison, STLE CLS

[CTmax]

George, Spoolin'it, Jon,
Thanks for all the info. The wealth of knowledge and information in this forum never ceases to amaze me. I too would like to see a listing of additives and their properties. This information would be helpful. Thanks again for all the information.

[IndigoDually]

A gasser is not the answer if You are looking to store fuel either. The gas of recent years has had a very limited shelf life before varnish and other nasty things happen to the stored fuel. A friend of mine has a small engine repair shop, in recent years he has seen more problems that are caused by "Bad Gas" than ever before.
I add stabilizer to every can of gas that I have as soon as I fill it no matter how quickly I plan on using it. Since I have been using stabilizer I have not had any (Knock on Wood) fuel related problems in small engines and seasonal equipment.

John

[chipper]

I contacted Conoco a few years ago about storing unleaded gas & they said a max of 3 months.