September update

[More Power]

I visited Randy's Ring & Pinion in Everett, Washington about 10 days ago. During my visit, they rebuilt a GM 9-1/2" six-lug axle I brought with me using new 3.42 gears, an Eaton Posi and all new bearings/seals. A new article about Randy's and rear diff setup will appear here before long.

After running the truck for about 1500 miles since mid May, I've decided to stay with 3.42 gears. It's a lot of fun on the highway with this gearing, and 1/4-mile performance should be as good as or better than 3.73.

Thus far, the truck has run a 13.9/109 in 2WD and 13.7/107 in 4WD according to a G-Tech. This is when run in Tow/Haul mode and with the Attitude set on level-5 with the EGT limiter disabled. I also have the "defuel on locked shifts" set to off. So far, no trans issues. I think there's room for improvement...

Coming soon will be an NOS system, a Predator programmer and a Banks wastegate actuator. The combination of these items plus the Juice/Attitude already installed should allow the truck to produce some interesting numbers.

MP

[AndyL]

That is excellent, I look forward to the next update!

As filler before the next update how about a before and after Dyno run of the latest Heath ECM? Or even better KDs is he is ready!

[DieselEnvy]

MP, are you planning to install an E-locker up front, or is front traction even a problem on the street?

[More Power]

Traction isn't a problem in 4WD, even with an open front diff. The last two full-on 4WD launches were without wheelspin - at the current power level. 2WD is another story - power has to be feathered, or it'll spin posi through 4th gear. I was surprised the 4WD tests didn't drop the ET more than .2 seconds.

Still need to find a way to keep the power up when shifting. The ECM reduces power on each shift, then rolls it back in. Might be good for longterm durability, but hurts ET.

I haven't planned to run this truck on the dyno. The track is the best place to test it. A dyno would load the powertrain just like it does for any truck, and I suspect the stock Allison wouldn't be able to handle it. In a lightweight truck, on the other hand, it'll likely "squirt out from under the torque limit" (as Bill Heath has suggested).

I spoke with an Allison engineer some time ago about all this. I mentioned during our conversation that I will likely need to upgrade the trans to handle the power. I was surprised by his comment that he didn't think it would need any help, given the weight of the truck. So, my intention is to test this theory. If the Allison requires an upgrade, we'll do what needs to be done. There are a number of choices currently available to beef the Allison, but I'll wait to cross that bridge.

MP

[ 09-16-2004, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: More Power ]

[More Power]

Diesel Innovations has a 2002 Powerstroke called "Snow White" they've been campaigning for a while. This is a standard cab 2WD model that has a race-ready weight of 5,900-lbs. Even at this weight, it has produced a best performance to date of 11.74/115.31.

The 4WD Duramax Hot-Rod weighs an even 1000-lbs less…

More Power!

[mcmonroe]

The updates are great. I am really enjoyed reading about your truck.

Something that has me a bit concerned though about the Duramax and expecially the new LLY's is the number of places in the ECM where full power is reduced.

The word is that the LLY's basically have LB7 power in first gear and fifth gear. Quite frankly I think that fifth gear is a great place to have full power to avoid downshifts etc. They also have LB7 power if you order a 6-speed.

From what you have described above there is reduced power after each shift too. I am beginning to think that there are more places in the ECM where there is "reduced power" versus "full power".

The truck simply must not be designed to handle "full power" and so for marketing reasons they give you the full power rating -- there just aren't many places in the ECM where you will see it.

At some point there could be legal ramifications on this. At some point we might have 400hp/900tq Duramax's but they only make that power in 3rd gear at 100% throttle between 2750-2800rpm and only 10 seconds after a gear shift is made and only if you have an Allison transmission. Everywhere else they will be in LB7 power mode.

Random thoughts....

Mark Monroe
Harrisburg NC

[More Power]

Mark,

That's one reason why I feel the annual Pull-Off we put together is so important. Powertrain management is an important ingredient in actual on-road performance. All three manufacturers use programming to manage the powertrain to improve durability, driveability and performance (and maybe to reduce warranty claims). None of them allow their engines to produce full rated power in all gears and throughout the rpm range whenever the go-pedal is mashed.

Even the 2001 LB7 didn't produce full power in 1st gear. Those who have done a few 0-60's know that a rush of power comes after the trans has completed its shift into 2nd, beyond what they felt in 1st. For those who do a lot of heavy towing, this is a good thing, in that it helps the transmission and drivetrain survive long-term HD use. For a hot-rod, it would help to keep the power as close to 100% as possible from start to finish - through all gears. Long-term durability is secondary to performance in this instance.

MP

[mcmonroe]

Thanks for the additional information MP.

Real world testing like your annual Pull-Off does help to compare the trucks. I really need to try to fly up there and meet everyone next year. Charlotte is a ways away from you guys but I would love to see the area.

The real problem is that the power ratings are really meaningless with the reduced power management in place. A good example is the International that has the DT466.

Many folks immediately said "it has less hp/tq than a Duramax" thinking that the DMax would be King -- but the reality could easily be that the DT466 powertrain can support more power and therefore the ECM may not operate in "reduced power mode". As such that truck might actually perform better than a truck with much higher peak power ratings such as the DMax.

I think that big trouble could be in the future if the power ratings continue to escalate for marketing purposes but the ECM operates the truck in "reduced power" mode a significant amount of time.

If a truck is advertised to have "X" amount of power -- it better make power and the drivetrain had better be designed to handle it. When people find out that they have been paying for something they are not getting and the mfg is covering their butts on warranty issues it will only be matter of time before lawyers are involved.

Point is case is Ford and their Cobras a few years ago. The cars didnt make the power, owners took Ford to court, the owners kicked Fords ass, Ford had to fix a bunch of cars. If the car/truck is rated for "X" power -- the power had better be there.

I might be wrong -- but I cant imagine commercial trucks pulling the same stunt. The power had better be there if you pay for it.

I got on a roll there -- sorry to be so long winded.

Random thoughts....

Mark

[eracers999]

MP;

Looking at your posting of 109 mph in the 1/4 and snow whites at 115 teels me that you are making some serious HP later in the run. Snow white must really be quick in the first 60ft to 330ft to create the diff in ET. Getting a look at both time slips and anylizing them would be interesting. I have a feeling that you are making more power than the stroke. I dont think he could touch you in a pull off. GOOD WORK!

Kent

[More Power]

If all goes according to plan, I should have some time slips after this coming weekend. Based on lots of dyno work by others when using similar power mods, lil Red should be somewhere in the 500 rwhp region for the upcoming runs. Previous 13.7/13.9 runs with the G-Tech were at about 400 rwhp.

I worked with a Predator programmer last weekend. Right now, it's set on the 40-hp level. It was able to compensate for the 3.42 gears and 275/55R20 rubber, to get the speedo to read correctly.

USDP sent home a bunch of stuff today to try at the track - BullyDog 2-stage NOS, BullyDog Programmer and a Banks wastegate actuator. JK also sent one of his hot VanAaken boxes and a tweaked TCM.

Don't know how much stuff we'll be able to get installed or tried at the track in Spokane on Sunday, but it should be entertaining. I've begun the NOS install, and hope to have it and TCM tested sometime Saturday afternoon. Then, I hope to make at least one run at the track with the hot Juice and one with the VanAaken. Probably won't mess with the programmers at the track.

MP

[More Power]

We had an interesting time at the track on Sunday. I learned a few things, including that more testing before hand would’ve helped….

With so many cars wanting to run on Sunday, I only had two opportunities. The first run was with the Edge Hot Juice/Attitude and nitrous. In 2WD, the truck spun a good share of the way down the track. There was virtually no exhaust smoke, and hitting the bottle didn’t seem to make a noticeable difference. The E/A just doesn’t have the snot to produce big power. Leaving late at the green and with lots of wheel spin produced a run much slower than the truck is capable of.

Returning to the pits, we installed the VanAaken box with JK’s program. John indicated this box would produce more smoke (more fuel to work with nitrous). To figure out which switch position was the high setting, we tested it a couple of times on pit road using a 4WD brake-stand. This gave me my first experience with really big power.

The second run came a couple of hours later - this time in 4WD. I crept up to the staging lights, then I began a powerbrake once the car in the other lane staged his first light. As I added more power and more brake pressure, the truck jumped (literally) ahead about 10 feet, aborting the run. I’ve done a lot of brake-stands through the years, but this was my first attempt at this power level…

I still had a quarter mile in front of me, so I decided to continue to learn more about the VanAaken box and nitrous. This combination makes huge power, but the engine appeared to run through the Allison converter and/or the engine’s RPM governor. This caused the engine to stutter at the upper end of each gear. At a minimum, JK suggested I may need a performance-oriented torque converter to contain the power, which should help get the trans input/output speed more in line with one another.

I’ll continue testing this month with the variety of products while using a G-Tech to help discover what the truck needs.

While at the track, we spoke with a couple of people who had seen the truck on the web site, and lots of people came by to ask about the Duramax installation.

MP

[tanker]

An Ole hot rodder goes back to the track! [img]tongue.gif[/img] Sounds like you had a lot of fun, but boy reaction time counts now more than back in the good ole small block Chevy days.
Its a trial an error thing to get things set up just right.
Any ET's you care to share?
Good luck Jim.