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Thread: Performance 6.5 Injectors

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
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    Martinsville, IN
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    Default

    You will see improved performance from the items that you mentioned. The sum total might approach 40 hp gain.

    The fact is, it takes a system approach to make power with the 6.5... Power that won't go away on a hot day at high altitude. Sometimes, big power can be made for a very short time, but cannot be sustained for 200 miles of trailer towing. The heat management issue must be dealt with to sustain increased performance.

  2. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ronniejoe
    The fact is, it takes a system approach to make power with the 6.5...

    I hope I have put togther a 'system' orientated improvement for sustained trailer towing. The next item next year will be a new computer, i was looking at the plug and play offered at US Diesel for $575 but now I am not so sure and will definately do more research on it before making any more investments such as this.
    Respectfully,


    Robert P.


    1999 Chev Silverado C3500 Crew cab dually long bed 4x2 - 6.5L Diesel, 4L80E / 4.10 gear.

    4" Exhaust
    Kennedy gauges
    Kennedy Inter cooler
    TD-MAX Boost Controller
    U.S. Diesel Performance ECM
    U.S. Diesel 40HP injector Kit
    150,000+ miles

    Pulling - 2013 Montana Mountaineer 346LBQ fifth wheel (12840# empty)

  3. #43
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    Nov 2002
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    Martinsville, IN
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    For a good perspective on how to do this (there are variations and other ways), read the series of articles in my signature (if you haven't already).

    I just noticed that the articles have been taken down from the website. They are available in book form here.
    Last edited by ronniejoe; 03-24-2007 at 08:19.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Newberg Oregon
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    I agree with the idea that to make sustainable performance with the 6.2/6.5 engine family one must use a package plan that includes

    Good base engine buildup
    Properly modified pistons
    Heads that have been reworked to beef up the weak issues
    A completely reworked fuel system.
    Aftercooler is a must
    A good free flowing performance exhaust system
    Special attention paid to the cooling system to insure the ability to get rid of the extra heat.
    Possibly a look at the vehicles gearing so the combination will be optimal.

    To sum it up I think that many of the companies that advertise the goody yum items that supposedly add X amount of power are simply preying on the buying public and interested only in the $$$ they can reap rather than building a business built on honesty and trust.

    Its easy to advertise wonderful numbers and there is always a certain percentaqe of folks that will rise to the bait and buy the product.
    In the end however the customer is unhappy and feels that he/she has been ripped off resulting in the industry as a whole getting an eye of suspicion cast upon it.

    In my business I try hard to go the extra mile and give the customer their monies worth and only advertise that which I can realistically deliver.

    Its too bad we have people that dont have this work ethic.

    The company that makes the aftermarket PMD replacement (I wont mention any names) has failed to live up to their claims and now does not return any phone calls.

    Far too much of this stuff goes on.

    It will all come out in the wash.

    later

    Robyn
    (1) 1995 Suburban 2500 4x4
    (1) 1997 Astro
    (1) 2005 Suburban (Papa Smurf)
    THIS IS BOW TIE COUNTRY

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    AB Canada
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    218

    Talking

    I posted a question a month ago about pop pressure and got no bite on that one.
    Since than I learned from the fellow i got new standard nozzles from that the pop pressure for my 95 6.5 was 2200 psi, so i set them accordingly.
    Is this right or wrong??

    The truck runs fine at idle as well as full load.

    On a couple of 6.2's I have the injectors are set at 1700 psi, wich the manual calls for.

    So I will ask again what pressure is hy pop supposed to be ???
    98 GMC sierra 2500 ext cab 4x4 auto tr 6.5 td 252000 km. needs new engine, next project
    95 GMC sierra LE 2500 ext cab sh box 4x4 auto tr 6.5 td 328.000 km. my wife's truck .remote pmd on cooler
    89 GMC sierra SLE 1500 ext cab 4x4 auto tr 6.2 720000 km engine swap at 665000 km because of broken oil cooler line. 6 bolt wheels.
    Waldon wheelloader repowered with a 6.2 na

  6. #46
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    Dec 2002
    Location
    Terre Haute IN
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    Standard 6.5 Turbo pop, ~1900 psi, high pop = ~2100.
    99 K2500 GMC Ext Cab, 6.5TD, Heath ECM reflash, TDC Offset -1.80, Bumped Optic, FSD Isolator, Turbo Master, KD 3.5" Exhaust, 4.10s and 33x11.50, Intercooler is next.
    98 Burb 350 1/2T/4l60/246/10Bolts - Wifes Ride
    80 Olds Cutlass 6.2/Studded/700R4/12Bolt 3.30s/IP=4544 Juiced by JK/Best MPG=30
    79 Olds Cutlass, 410ci/700R4 - Currently Restoring
    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse Turbo, currently 12PSI max boost
    39 Chevy Rat Rod
    2004 Sportsman 600
    2002 Scrambler 500
    2007 Sportsman 90
    2003 Kazuma 50
    2001 XR50
    1990 Murry 46"
    43 Total pistons!
    Email= Dr.Diesel@gmail.com WA9SDJ

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Newberg Oregon
    Posts
    12,282

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    My feeling on the Hi POP units is that unless you are starting life off with a specially set up high output pump thats set on kill I would stick with the standard pressure injectors.

    Hi pop will give a slightly better/finer spray mist rersulting in a better burn "maybe"

    I also wonder what this is going to do over time to the IP when working things harder to produce the higher pressures.

    I stuck a set of squirts in a 6.2 that I had purchased from a shop that I had not dealt with before and they had set them to 6.5 pressures.
    The little diesel rat rattled really good.
    On a cold morning it sounded like an unhappy powerstroke.
    OH YEAH Buddy.
    Never had any issues with it though
    (1) 1995 Suburban 2500 4x4
    (1) 1997 Astro
    (1) 2005 Suburban (Papa Smurf)
    THIS IS BOW TIE COUNTRY

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    AB Canada
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    218

    Default

    Well I gues I did set Mine a tad high at 2200 psi.

    Well that's to bad, I aint gonna peel them back out.

    The wife says the truck is climbing the hills like a raped ape sinds i changed the nozzles, we'll see how the pump is gonna last, it is in there for at least 180000 km.
    98 GMC sierra 2500 ext cab 4x4 auto tr 6.5 td 252000 km. needs new engine, next project
    95 GMC sierra LE 2500 ext cab sh box 4x4 auto tr 6.5 td 328.000 km. my wife's truck .remote pmd on cooler
    89 GMC sierra SLE 1500 ext cab 4x4 auto tr 6.2 720000 km engine swap at 665000 km because of broken oil cooler line. 6 bolt wheels.
    Waldon wheelloader repowered with a 6.2 na

  9. Default

    Well last week I installed a 4" exhaust from JC Whitney and could definitely feel and hear the difference. The power increase although mostly likely modest is definitely noticeable. My Kennedy inter-cooler arrived this morning...

    So i look forward with earnest to see how well it turns out with the cooler and installing new injectors, moving the FSD to an external mount and adding the boost controller. Thanks for the input, ill keep ya posted...
    Respectfully,


    Robert P.


    1999 Chev Silverado C3500 Crew cab dually long bed 4x2 - 6.5L Diesel, 4L80E / 4.10 gear.

    4" Exhaust
    Kennedy gauges
    Kennedy Inter cooler
    TD-MAX Boost Controller
    U.S. Diesel Performance ECM
    U.S. Diesel 40HP injector Kit
    150,000+ miles

    Pulling - 2013 Montana Mountaineer 346LBQ fifth wheel (12840# empty)

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    AB Canada
    Posts
    218

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by simon
    Well I gues I did set Mine a tad high at 2200 psi.

    Well that's to bad, I aint gonna peel them back out.

    The wife says the truck is climbing the hills like a raped ape sinds i changed the nozzles, we'll see how the pump is gonna last, it is in there for at least 180000 km.
    My Wife put over 6000 km on the 2200 psi nozzles since i installed them.

    The engine starts and runs better than ever before.

    One wiff of smoke the moment she fires, then no smoke at all.

    verry crispy acceleration, lots of power, and it used only 1 ltr oil in those 6000 km. mind you i vented the CDR to the outside.

    Total km on the truck 313400.

    I am a happy man
    98 GMC sierra 2500 ext cab 4x4 auto tr 6.5 td 252000 km. needs new engine, next project
    95 GMC sierra LE 2500 ext cab sh box 4x4 auto tr 6.5 td 328.000 km. my wife's truck .remote pmd on cooler
    89 GMC sierra SLE 1500 ext cab 4x4 auto tr 6.2 720000 km engine swap at 665000 km because of broken oil cooler line. 6 bolt wheels.
    Waldon wheelloader repowered with a 6.2 na

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    939

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    Check this out

    It appears all else being the same a larger nozzle will create a larger "flame" or more penetration is what it actually references. Maybe better overall combustion with higher fuel rates or better heat distribution into cylinder? Don't know if anything is measurable as far as power/performance but the image appears like there is a difference.

    I hope this link works because I doubt I could find it again.

    http://public.ca.sandia.gov/ecn/orifice.php
    Last edited by Hubert; 09-04-2007 at 19:25. Reason: change wording
    97 5spd K2500 Ext Cab short Bed ~160K miles.
    TM, 3" downpipe & 4" exhaust, remote FSD, remote oilfilter, Gauges: EGT, Boost, Fuel Pressure, B&W Gooseneck Turnover ball, Prodigy Brake Controller. Hi-Temp Hydraulic Oil Cooler Lines.

  12. #52
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    Dec 2002
    Location
    Terre Haute IN
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    564

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    Couldn't find a spec, but I'd bet that is a common rail setup.......
    99 K2500 GMC Ext Cab, 6.5TD, Heath ECM reflash, TDC Offset -1.80, Bumped Optic, FSD Isolator, Turbo Master, KD 3.5" Exhaust, 4.10s and 33x11.50, Intercooler is next.
    98 Burb 350 1/2T/4l60/246/10Bolts - Wifes Ride
    80 Olds Cutlass 6.2/Studded/700R4/12Bolt 3.30s/IP=4544 Juiced by JK/Best MPG=30
    79 Olds Cutlass, 410ci/700R4 - Currently Restoring
    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse Turbo, currently 12PSI max boost
    39 Chevy Rat Rod
    2004 Sportsman 600
    2002 Scrambler 500
    2007 Sportsman 90
    2003 Kazuma 50
    2001 XR50
    1990 Murry 46"
    43 Total pistons!
    Email= Dr.Diesel@gmail.com WA9SDJ

  13. #53
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    Dec 2003
    Location
    SC
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    That looks to me the bigger nozzle equals faster combustion ie penetration rate which matches the "marine" steady higher rpm operation. I don't know what the system is just thought it was pretty interesting.
    97 5spd K2500 Ext Cab short Bed ~160K miles.
    TM, 3" downpipe & 4" exhaust, remote FSD, remote oilfilter, Gauges: EGT, Boost, Fuel Pressure, B&W Gooseneck Turnover ball, Prodigy Brake Controller. Hi-Temp Hydraulic Oil Cooler Lines.

  14. #54
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    Sep 2003
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    Feeniks, Aridzona
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    1,114

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubert View Post
    Check this out

    It appears all else being the same a larger nozzle will create a larger "flame" or more penetration is what it actually references. Maybe better overall combustion with higher fuel rates or better heat distribution into cylinder? Don't know if anything is measurable as far as power/performance but the image appears like there is a difference.

    I hope this link works because I doubt I could find it again.

    http://public.ca.sandia.gov/ecn/orifice.php
    That is a very cool link. It is interesting to see the difference in the spray/flame pattern at different temperature and pressure and nozzle size. Based on that, I'd say that bigger nozzles and higher pressure are a good thing as you increase boost. The higher cylinder pressure has a significant affect on the spray pattern and penetration, and the bigger nozzle with higher pressure would compensate (at least partially) for that.
    1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer...new 6.5 in process...diamond block, 18:1's, other goodies...


  15. #55
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    Dec 2002
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    Terre Haute IN
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    136Mpa = 20,000PSI, defiantly common rail. For the 6.5 application I don't believe comparing a 2000psi injection event to a 20,000psi is apples to apples. But then again I can't find my Fluid Dynamics degree laying around either!!

    I was hoping for some evidence against the mythical "Performance High flow Injectors."
    99 K2500 GMC Ext Cab, 6.5TD, Heath ECM reflash, TDC Offset -1.80, Bumped Optic, FSD Isolator, Turbo Master, KD 3.5" Exhaust, 4.10s and 33x11.50, Intercooler is next.
    98 Burb 350 1/2T/4l60/246/10Bolts - Wifes Ride
    80 Olds Cutlass 6.2/Studded/700R4/12Bolt 3.30s/IP=4544 Juiced by JK/Best MPG=30
    79 Olds Cutlass, 410ci/700R4 - Currently Restoring
    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse Turbo, currently 12PSI max boost
    39 Chevy Rat Rod
    2004 Sportsman 600
    2002 Scrambler 500
    2007 Sportsman 90
    2003 Kazuma 50
    2001 XR50
    1990 Murry 46"
    43 Total pistons!
    Email= Dr.Diesel@gmail.com WA9SDJ

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Feeniks, Aridzona
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    1,114

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyL View Post
    136Mpa = 20,000PSI, defiantly common rail. For the 6.5 application I don't believe comparing a 2000psi injection event to a 20,000psi is apples to apples. But then again I can't find my Fluid Dynamics degree laying around either!!

    I was hoping for some evidence against the mythical "Performance High flow Injectors."
    We are not comparing 2000 to 20000 here. All this is showing is that with an increase in fuel pressure there is an increase in flame penetration into the chamber.
    1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer...new 6.5 in process...diamond block, 18:1's, other goodies...


  17. #57
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    SC
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    I thought the link was pretty good and does support at least a little credibility for different injectors for the "marine" application. 6.5 pressures are a lot lower and IDI is a different animal but I think the link does show fair comparison for nozzle size. It references penetration rate of fuel and flame front into cylinder. I did not see any documentation of any power differences but does show there is a difference in spray pattern/combustion to nozzle size.
    It has always struck me that marine injectors/nozzles are OE name brand parts at least from all the reading I think they are OE for marine applications. We are not talking some joe injector shop marketing his modified injector. Is the HP rating of marine engines higher? I have assumed they are and thought the pump was turned up and engine set for more HP since adequate cooling could be guaranteed with the application. Combined with the fact economy is less of a concern with recreational applications and emission requirements are different too.

    Like posted earlier several times it does not make sense to me that just changing injectors will give any appreciable HP gain. But after viewing link I think it can definately be argued injector differences can be matched for application ie I think marine injectors are better for steady hi RPM operation and or maybe higher fuel delivery. And then maybe not necessairly for anything other than better emissions. HP gains are probably due to IP fuel delivery increase only.
    97 5spd K2500 Ext Cab short Bed ~160K miles.
    TM, 3" downpipe & 4" exhaust, remote FSD, remote oilfilter, Gauges: EGT, Boost, Fuel Pressure, B&W Gooseneck Turnover ball, Prodigy Brake Controller. Hi-Temp Hydraulic Oil Cooler Lines.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    55

    Default 6.5 manually injected performance gains

    Hay guys now where do i start i just bought a 93 3500 dually with 6.5 td whats the first step to helping her pull a 28 ft 5th wheel weighing around 9k and will i be disappointed in comparison to my 454 gmc. Like to keep it simple powerful and reliable. thanks

  19. #59
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    Nov 2003
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    Edison, NJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by stacker View Post
    Hay guys now where do i start i just bought a 93 3500 dually with 6.5 td whats the first step to helping her pull a 28 ft 5th wheel weighing around 9k and will i be disappointed in comparison to my 454 gmc. Like to keep it simple powerful and reliable. thanks
    In In my opinion, upgraded cooling system (I think yours has the old single thermostat setup), intercooler and good free flowing air cleaner. Once the intercooler is on you cam make yourself a boost fooler so you don't throw a code when you turn up the boost some. I'd raise it form the stock 8-psi to 12-14 once intercooler. A better exhaust with downpipe always helps.

    With the above it should be comparable towing wise to your 454 but get better gas mileage.

    Art.
    Art Paltz
    1999 Suburban K2500 6.5TD (stock)
    2000 Undercover Dragster, 468 BBC, 7.74@173MPH, waiting on new 622 aluminum BBC to be finished.
    1992 Tube Chassis Camaro, 468 BBC, 8.54@157MPH (SOLD)
    1987 Buick Grand National, 11.8@114, pump gas (for sale)
    1969 Camaro SS/RS 396-350HP, stock restoration, it never leaves the garage...

  20. #60
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    Sep 2007
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    Jax Florida
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    I am sorry if this has been answered before, however I have a 93 6.5 td an I was looking at the turbo, it is a GM-3 and there does not seem to be a wastegate on it. it looks like a rod with a spring holds a butterfly valve closed when the exhaust pressure gets enough it forces the valve open.
    If that is correct How could you increase the boost?

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