starter issue?

[derekja]

Oh, I'm not real happy right now.

So, if you've been following the saga I got the new water pump on last night. Worked real late to do it, but all seemed to go well. After getting it on she started up right away and didn't seem to leak anywhere. It was late, so I only ran for a minute or two, just long enough to peek under the hood and under the truck.

I came back home tonight to do some last tidbits - install the front grill, the top half of the radiator shroud, etc. Nothing serious.

I get done with that, turn the key, and all I hear is a click!

There's good voltage at the battery, good voltage at the solenoid terminal.

What could have gone wrong? It seems just too coincidental that the starter motor should have picked this moment to fail. Same on the solenoid. I'm trying to find someone to come turn the key while I check the voltage on the starter itself, though. The click seems to indicate that the wire from the ignition is good.

Any ideas of what else to try? The helms manual has this checklist that concludes at about this point "replace starter" but that seems hasty and painful!

Is it going to hurt anything if I short out the solenoid terminals to see if the starter hits?

Edit: Oh, I also ought to note that when I put a volt meter on the RH battery and turn the key to start, it drops from 12.35 to 12.33 but doesn't go down from there as I leave the key on start for a few seconds. Essentially no voltage drop. This seems to suggest that the starter is not really getting power, correct?

Edit #2: confirmed. There doesn't seem to be power at the starter motor. I put negative on the voltmeter on the frame, positive on the big yellow wire going from the solenoid to the starter motor. When the key is turned to start, the voltage changes from a floating mV reading to zero for a moment, then back to it's floating mV reading.

Edit #3: what's the trigger voltage on the solenoid? And the click indicates it's closing, right? When I put a lead on the input to the solenoid it goes from zero to about 9.5 volts when I turn the key to start. I'm kind of surprised not to see 12 V, but since I hear the click I presume 9.5 is sufficient and the voltage loss is coming from my funny long leads (to allow the meter to be where I can see it from the driver's seat) or somewhere in the ignition switch circuitry.

[derekja]

Whoa, there's a new piece to the puzzle.

I got in there and tightened all the connections. While I had the batteries disconnected I fastened a lead onto the post itself on the solenoid. (the one from the positive on the battery, that is)

When the key is not at "start" this detects 12.3 volts, just like I expected.

When I turn the key to "start", though, the voltage drops away! All the way to nothing!

New theories (please shoot them down for me):

1) short to ground on the starter side of the solenoid.
2) poor connection at the double positive cable on the battery (just enough contact to carry a resting voltage, but not enough to carry any working current, so it drops away when the circuit closes)

I think I'm missing something still, but I like the connection theories a lot better than the bad solenoid theory since of course I've just had all these connections off recently...

Ideas?

[derekja]

Wow, got her to start, but I don't know what I did.

I got to checking other connections related to starting. Immediately after tightening the glow plug relay it started just like there had never been anything wrong...

*confused*

[DmaxMaverick]

Isn't it awful when you end up just talkin' to yourself? You're going along faster than folks can think stuff up. That's a good thing.

You probably found the problem, and didn't even know it. Electrical connections can be a bear, and these animals seem to corner that market. Battery and ground connections are usually the root of a whole list of [non related] issues. Your guess is as good as mine as to which one you *fixed*. Odds are, it'll be back, though.

[simon]

Isn't it awful when you end up just talkin' to yourself? You're going along faster than folks can think stuff up. That's a good thing.

You probably found the problem, and didn't even know it. Electrical connections can be a bear, and these animals seem to corner that market. Battery and ground connections are usually the root of a whole list of [non related] issues. Your guess is as good as mine as to which one you *fixed*. Odds are, it'll be back, though.

I almost peed myself laughing about your comment

[DmaxMaverick]

I almost peed myself laughing about your comment

Glad to be of service.......