Detroit Diesel

[gophergunner]

well if i were to do this, i'm thinking of a pickup truck size here, and 4x4 as well. but preferably manual transmission. just seems to me that a 4-71 is a bit taller and heavier, and a 6 or 7 speed for it would be a fairly heavy transmission as well. would make me worry about the front axle a little.

my dad still has a 1969 gmc 9500 tandem axle truck on the farm. he uses it every spring and fall and it doesn't seem to let him down. its got a 6-71 that has been rebuilt twice, the second time was due to a broken crankshaft from the first rebuild which was only about 100 miles old at the point of the second rebuild. but even if those engines don't usually like low rpm, this thing could tear its own brakes apart in low gear............

i grew up on the farm and listening to that truck throughout the years made me love the detroit diesel sound. which is why i am wanting one in a pickup truck now

[a4stargen]

I had a 4-53 in an IH travelall. Things I disliked: Noise (but that is exactly what you LIKED), fuel economy (only got 12-13 mpg). Things I liked: Power and torque.
My boss had a 4-71 in an old work truck and it always sounded a lot more "sedate" than mine (lower rumble, smoother), not sure why.

If you want to go with the aluminum 4-71, I would recommend investing in an Allison 1000 transmission (if you want A/T) or one of the newer 6 or even 7 speed manuals. The DDAD's rev like there's no tomorrow, but they don't like to lug. Right gears will make the whole experience a LOT better.

I worked at a Detroit Diesel/Allison shop for years. The rotors inside the blower are shaped differently on a 53 series than the other series Detroits (71, 92, etc). The 53 rotors are straight while the 71 are twisted into a spiral shape. That's why a 53 series is louder than a 71, the extra noise from a 53 is coming from the blower.

[reighna]

They are only expensive if you are going to pay a shop to do it.... You can get a complete rebuild kit for a 4-53 for about $1200.
One cool thing about the 2 cycle DD is they dont have a central high pressure and high price injector pump just a continuous loop fuel pump and the injectors are mechanical... rocker activated plungers... you can loose an injector or two and they just keep running! The 2 stroke DD date back to WW II developed for the armed forces as a simple and reliable engine.
You can also thumb your nose at the Oil Barrons! How? In warm climates you can run the Detroit Diesel On well filtered waste fryer oil or in cooler climates Preheat WVO & Block.... Google treehugger they ran a 2-71 generator on strait WVO for 40,000 Hrs (if my memory serves me) then donated it to a NY Museum were it's still chugging away!
FREE FUEL!!!

None of us are as smart as all of us.

Google Green-trust to find web site, 4,000 hrs is correct, $600 for 4-53 kit...

[PullinJimmy]

I am new to this forum. I am looking for any information on getting maximun HP out of a Detroit 4-53 engine. The engine is in a pulling tractor and currently turning it 3200 RPM with 100 inectors. Wondering if can do head work, camshaft work, etc. to increase HP? I can't run a turbo. Any information will be appreciated.

[6.5NOVA]

Take a look...........


http://videos.streetfire.net/video/6...3d011bba43.htm


twin turbo 6V-92 with 157 mm injectors...

[andysfords]

The problem with the 471 or any other 71 series engine is that is has a longer stroke than a 53 series and it cannot turn to as many RPM. A 71 series can't be turned past about 2600 while a 53 can be turned as far as 3200 safely. The advantage of a 53 is that you can take the back housing off an aluminum block 353, some of them had a back housing that would bolt to a chevrolet bell housing. I've got one I'm fixing to put in a 1985 Chevy 1 ton, It is a 453 Cast iron block, a back housing off an aluminum 353, it will bolt to the existing bellhousing and a 4 spd manual tranny. The only problem is that the housing won't fit a 6v engine. I work for a man that specializes in 2 stoke detroits, he is awesome at all of this stuff. He had one of those 353s with the chevy bolt pattern in a half ton truck, but he wrecked the truck. Still has the engine, complet with bellhousing and motor mounts, I think I'm going to buy it, as its only $1250 and I think it might be great for a project down the road sometime. I am going to see how the little detroit does in the truck, if I like, I'm going to have it rebuilt as a turbo motor later. A 453 turbo would give you all the power you need, they used to put them in ton and half chevys, but I am looking at one day having a 6v53t with an Allison Auto behind it, that would be ideal for a 1 ton, plenty of power.

[gophergunner]

even if the 71 series doesn't rev as high, a 4-71 would have enough torque for some 3.08 gears and appropriately sized tires i think.....i would really be worried about engine dimensions and weight really.

like i said before, i keep getting discouraged about this kind of conversion from anyone who deals with detroit engines. you'd think they'd encourage me and try to sell me some stuff.

i noticed some pamphlets at the detroit dealer in edmonton for rebuilt 53, 71, 92, 110, and 149 series engines, but i didn't dare ask about it cause i'm sure they don't come cheap for a full rebuild from those guys. but i'm keeping my eye out for a good used one, hopefully still in running condition, but if someone were to have a good setup with the correct bellhousing i would consider buying it. the cost of shipping might be worth it since i'm not having much luck around here. or else a nice road trip to pick it up

[DeezilDoc]

I really think U should go with a 53, a 4 if possable............6V U need a shoe horn to get it under the hood. I have specialized in the 2 strokes since 1971,22 years with Peninsular Diesel who was the distributor for Michigan.Feel free to scratch my head anytime always willing to throw my $0.02 worth in if it helps Great if not ...............OH WELL

[gophergunner]

i'm willing to take any advice and tips i can on this topic.

judging from the views on the 2 detroit diesel threads, i think this is a popular topic really.

i am currently working on my 89 blazer for my off-road buggy, but once that thing gets up and going i think i will focus my time on this detroit diesel pickup dream i've been having........

my dream goes as follows.....not sure on which engine exactly, but leaning towards 4-53, NV4500, NP205 all supported on a K2500 or 3500 frame with 14-bolt full floating rear end and Dana 60 front end to support all that weight.

as i said, dream so far, but if its not possible to use an NV4500 without expensive adapters and whatnot, then i'll use an SM465. however, i will welcome all clues, tips and hints about adapters and correct bellhousings here. i asked a fellow at Novak Conversions but he has not gotten back to me yet. and i'm willing to use a different t-case if it saves me trouble in my build-up.

also, if anyone seems to have any good leads on a good engine, aluminum block would be nice, feel free to send me some info. i am in canada, so distance may be an issue, but sometimes ya just can't turn down a good deal if it comes along.

costs add up, but the uniqueness of the truck is worth it in the end

[tjmac77]

Hey guys- I am new to the forum and have been reading up on your posts. I recently purchased 2 DD 4 53t's with intent of repowering my old jeeps. In my J10 I have swapped in 1 ton axles and a divorced NP205 which I with couple to an Allison 545 behind the 453t. I hope it works OK. In my '77 Cherokee I have GM HD 3/4 axles from a '73 C20 4x4. I would like to use a manual transmission but need some help with choosing one that will work. I got the GM axles from a neighbor who still has the rest of the '73 C20... could the transmission and T-case possibly bolt up? I have never worked on anything other than older Fords so I am not sure on what will swap. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

PS Would a 353 be better in the Cherokee?...bought the 453 cause it was CHEAP! Maybe I should swap???

[PullinJimmy]

I really think U should go with a 53, a 4 if possable............6V U need a shoe horn to get it under the hood. I have specialized in the 2 strokes since 1971,22 years with Peninsular Diesel who was the distributor for Michigan.Feel free to scratch my head anytime always willing to throw my $0.02 worth in if it helps Great if not ...............OH WELL

I am new to forum. I would like to scratch your head on getting max HP out of a 4-53 Detroit. appreciate any help.

[DeezilDoc]

tjmac77 can I ask what you paid for the 4-53T's

[andysfords]

I have been working on a 353 Gamma Goat engine going into a 85 Chevy K20 for a while and I finally finished. I like it, its loud as can be, and it won't run but 60, and you can't run 60 and hear yourself think at the same time, but other than that its great. I bolted it to the stock 4 spd since the bell housing and clutch was still on the motor. The main problem was the radiator sits lower than the engine and I had to make a new filler in the top radiator hose to get the head to fill all the way up with water. I will try to post some pictures. It sits about 3 inches from the axle and about 3 inches from the top of the hood, so the thought of getting it into a jeep is doubtful

[ARAMP1]

I have been working on a 353 Gamma Goat engine going into a 85 Chevy K20 for a while and I finally finished. I like it, its loud as can be, and it won't run but 60, and you can't run 60 and hear yourself think at the same time, but other than that its great. I bolted it to the stock 4 spd since the bell housing and clutch was still on the motor. The main problem was the radiator sits lower than the engine and I had to make a new filler in the top radiator hose to get the head to fill all the way up with water. I will try to post some pictures. It sits about 3 inches from the axle and about 3 inches from the top of the hood, so the thought of getting it into a jeep is doubtful

Wow, can't wait for pics!!!! If you get a chance, please give a pic or two of the motor mounts.

[A-310]

Keep us posted on your 4-71 build please. I to am considering the same engine for a Ford F-450 4X4 conversion in the future. Was going to to go with the 4-53T with an RTO6610, but am now looking at the 4-71T with RTO6610 or RTLO14613. The only drawback I can see with the 4-71 is the weight. The difference is around 600 pounds with the transmission, which is a fair amount. I can easily get a front differential that can take the weight, but the main problem I see is getting stuck off road? Weighting for someone who has done this for some feedback for offroad applications. The last thing I want is to get this truck stuck up to the bumper and have to try and tow it out of the bush. lol

[ARAMP1]

The only drawback I can see with the 4-71 is the weight.

That's why I went with an aluminum motor.

[A-310]

That's why I went with an aluminum motor.

Have you weighed the cast iron block and compared it to the aluminum block? Just curious as how much savings there is?

[oshpunit987]

A-310, I ran a 3-71N off and on for 10 years in a 79 Chevy crewcab. Some times I used a 454 and some times I'd put in a 6.2 diesel. I liked it real well but it was very heavy in the front. It was 2WD and when you got off the road you might as well forget about going very far. I was hauling boy scouts into a camping site and had to go up a small hill and it was a little wet and I just barely got started up and lost traction. A little 4WD Toyota had to pull me in. You have to have an overdrive transmission or very tall tires to get any road speed with a 71 series. I had a 25% overdrive and 3.21 1 ton axle. I now have a 4-53T in the truck with a 5 speed direct drive transmission and a 3 speed auxiliary that is abot 27% overdrive and still have the 3.21 axle. It's been in there 13 years with no other swaps.
A 4-53T weighs 1300
3-71N 1525
4-71N 1780
4-71T 1830
6V53N 1485
6V53T 1695
I believe the best one to go with is the 4-53T, mine is supposed to be 170HP and it definitely runs better than the 3-71N did.

You will have to make motor mounts and brackets to mount the belt driven accessories. This forum http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/ has a lot of good info for Detroit swaps. They say your RPM at cruising speed, say 65MPH or what ever speed you plan to cruise at, should be 2,200- 2,300 for a 4-53N and 1,800 -1,900 for a 4-53T. That's where you get the best economy.
My avatar is the 2 transmission in the truck.

[A-310]

A-310, I ran a 3-71N off and on for 10 years in a 79 Chevy crewcab. Some times I used a 454 and some times I'd put in a 6.2 diesel. I liked it real well but it was very heavy in the front. It was 2WD and when you got off the road you might as well forget about going very far. I was hauling boy scouts into a camping site and had to go up a small hill and it was a little wet and I just barely got started up and lost traction. A little 4WD Toyota had to pull me in. You have to have an overdrive transmission or very tall tires to get any road speed with a 71 series. I had a 25% overdrive and 3.21 1 ton axle. I now have a 4-53T in the truck with a 5 speed direct drive transmission and a 3 speed auxiliary that is abot 27% overdrive and still have the 3.21 axle. It's been in there 13 years with no other swaps.
A 4-53T weighs 1300
3-71N 1525
4-71N 1780
4-71T 1830
6V53N 1485
6V53T 1695
I believe the best one to go with is the 4-53T, mine is supposed to be 170HP and it definitely runs better than the 3-71N did.

You will have to make motor mounts and brackets to mount the belt driven accessories. This forum http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/ has a lot of good info for Detroit swaps. They say your RPM at cruising speed, say 65MPH or what ever speed you plan to cruise at, should be 2,200- 2,300 for a 4-53N and 1,800 -1,900 for a 4-53T. That's where you get the best economy.
My avatar is the 2 transmission in the truck.

Thanks for the info. As much as I love the 4-71T, I have decided to go with the 4-53T and a Fuller RTO6610 for my project truck. Recurring nightmares of getting the 4-71T stuck made up my mind, LoL. I've found a 1987 Silver 4-53T that runs but needs an overhaul, so will be purchasing it in the next few days and having it shipped to my dads shop. I think it will have all the power I need, so that's what I've decided to go with. This is a long term project, (3 years) until I get back to Canada, so at the moment I'm collecting all the parts for the build. I'll post some pictures of the engine and a video of the first start before I overhaul it. Thanks again for the help. Do you have any video's or pictures of your setup?
A-310

P.S Sorry for hijacking this post

[Homealone777]

Hello all, I'm new to this forum as well; I've been reading up on everyones ideas, and progress, upsides and downsides of the detroit engines. I'm currently looking for a 4-53T myself and I want to drop it in a 1968 IH 2WD 1200 pickup truck. I noticed someone called Journey Man had done this with a Travelall and was wondering what kind of set-up he had in it. I used to drive a Mack truck with an oldtime 2 stick 18 speed, drove that truck for a few yrs. Retired now, and want to do something different. I've gotten to missing changing all those gears, so here's what Lord Willing; I'd like to end up with: That truck, the Detroit 4-53T, and a 3 speed aux. Yes I know detroits reputation, they like it best wide open or close to it anyways. I belive I've found the place with the people who can help me with my endevor. I'd like to keep the trans. and rear end because it has a detroit locker rear end in it now. I know there's got to be a way to get a good gear ratio between the 2 trans. to end up with about 75 MPH top out speed comfortably. I don't hear to good anyhow, so I'm not worried about the noise; I like the sound of those old engines! I've not found an engine yet, but Lord Willing; I will. Please ALL advise would be deeply appreciated...Thanks.