Juice/Attitude

[Inspector]

Question for John K.
I got a Juice/Attitude for the 2004.5-2005 LLy. I will be using it on the Seneca C5500 300hp 520 torque. I assume that it has been detuned to that HP and torque. Will I have any trouble using the Edge in this application?
Thanks
Denny

[Inspector]

On edit the motorhome is registered as a 2006 but was manufactured in the 2005 model year so is an LLY. The coach maker gets to call the year of the unit. They will buy a mess of cutaways in a model year and by the time they get them to the build bay it maybe the next model year run.
Denny

[Mark Rinker]

My 2004 C4500 flatbed ran and towed fine with a +40hp tow tune from Predator. However, the next increment up (+65hp) limped immediately with a very light load (trailer/aluminum pontoon boat) in tow.

I would proceed with great caution, starting out with a basic tow/economy tune, when running empty. Always keep your tuner or stock ECM with you, so you can return to stock tune if things aren't working well.

If you plan to tow anything significat behind the Seneca (car/truck/boat/etc), I'd recommend sticking with your stock tuning - unless you plan to upgrade to a heavier duty torque converter and add some additional transmission cooling capacity. You'll likely have temp problems towing with that rig in any mountainous terrain, if your GCVW exceeds 20K#.

[Inspector]

Mark:
I have learned that the LLY engine is the same in everyway mechanically as the LBZ except for tuning. The 300hp 520 torque engine in my rig is simply detuned. I am hoping the the Edge will restore it to the HP of the LBZ but I maybe expecting to much and am up in the night. It would make sense that the cooling systems for the medium duty trucks would not be the same as the light dutys. I haven't compared or researched the differences as yet but will soon and if they are lacking I will be making some changes. With your experience with the C4500, what problems did you encounter? My unit is on the C5500 chassis and would like to get a heads up on what to expect.
Thanks
Denny

[Inspector]

Mark:
Just a little more info for you. This truck has a 4 inch cat back exhaust and an exhaust brake. The brake is a function of the turbo and other than that I don't know much more about the exhaust brake. I will be installing an EGT probe for the Attitude. I have previously owned a 2003 K3500 (LBZ) with the edge attitude and was pleased with the towing (2) setting for the 36ft fiver. GCVW was right at 22000 on occasion. The King of The Road was not a lightweight. Using the tow setting the truck would cruise in OD most of the time here in the mountains of Utah and points west. Never got hot and the trans ran about 175-180. I will be weighing the Seneca as soon as I get it road loaded so that I know just what will be left. My toad is a ford ranger with a ATV on its back. The Book says 26000 GCVW limit so we shall see. I don't forsee a combined weight anywhere approaching that. Probably around 22 or 23 but maybe I won't be as heavy as I expect.
Denny

[Kennedy]

Best thing to do is locate the ECM and or see if there is a FICM on the valve cover by the alternator. This will help determine whether it is a Delphi LLY or the later Bosch LLY/LBZ config.

[Inspector]

John:
The build date on the cutaway is 9/05. So is a late production unit. I will have more time tomorrow to look at the ECM. It may be an actual 2006 model build.
In my last post I erred in saying that my 2003 was a LBZ. Meant to say LB7.
Denny

[RayFong]

My Seneca is an '06 model year but the chasis was built on 12/05. I'm guessing the engine should be lly since the model year builds start in Sept for GM. My spec sheet is showing 330 hp and 580 tq. I spoke to Banks about the Economind and they said the 06-07 LLY model should be fine but suggested I bring it to their shop for the best tuning. I've heard the Edge has error code problems with Duramax's and it worries me that there are a bunch of Edge w/juice ads in Craigslist for $400 and less but absolutely no Banks for sale. I'm putting my money on Banks.

[Mark Rinker]

Best thing to do is locate the ECM and or see if there is a FICM on the valve cover by the alternator. This will help determine whether it is a Delphi LLY or the later Bosch LLY/LBZ config.

What John said.

Beyond that, I would suggest watching EGTs and IATs carefully. You have a unique application, with unique towing requirements. In many ways, a complete one-off. My advice:

• Get to know the vehicle's performance in stock form first, and improve on that, incrementally.
• Always travel into mountainous towing (or high altitudes in general) with the ability to return to stock tuning.

Your truck has larger air intake / filtration, less restrictive exhaust, and increased oil, trans, and coolant cooling capacity.

My LB7 C4500 performed fine with +40, but couldn't hang onto any more...good thing though is it limped quickly and illuminated a 'gear' indicator on the center console area that is unique to the Kodiak.

[maverick_935]

What is the difference in the later Bosch LLY/LBZ config.

I have an 05 dually with the Bosch on the right valve cover and I am looking for probably an Edge to help in Economy and towing tunes.

[RayFong]

I know that the 2004.5 to 2005 LLY is different than the 06-07 LLY/LB7. Notice LB7 not LBZ. My understanding is that the 06's started having more smog junk and that LMM's of 08 to current have even more power robbing smog garbage. Beyond that, I'm not really sure the difference. I know the 06/07 LLY is the same engine as the LB7 but with different programing.

[maverick_935]

Maybe Mark can help with this one.

My truck is being set up to tow trailers as a business as well as daily driver.

What would you do to increase it's towing ability as well as daily economy mode.

I liked the edge for it's gauge and ease of monitoring.

[DmaxMaverick]

It can get a bit foggy, with mid model year changes. The Duramax has seen several mid year changes, since its introduction.

2001 - 2004 = LB7
No EGR (except CA, 2002+)
FICM driven fuel delivery (EDU box on right valve cover)

2004.5 - 2005 = LLY
New heads with EGR, new injector design, injectors external to valve covers (NOT the same as LB7)
FICM driven fuel delivery

2006 = LLY
New(er) engine design, similar to later LBZ
PCM driven fuel delivery (no FICM)
6 speed Allison introduced

2006.5 - 2007 = LBZ
Essentially the same as the 2006 LLY, with higher power numbers

2007.5 - current = LMM
Introduction of DPF