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Thread: LBZ heat soak and towing with MORE POWER

  1. #1

    Default LBZ heat soak and towing with MORE POWER

    Much has been written and discussed on this topic, but until you have experienced it first hand, its someone else's problem...

    In the last three weeks, I have had the opportunity to traverse 15 states with widely varying temperatures, altitudes, and loads. I found that my 2006 K3500 SRW LBZ was not immune to the heat soak issues experienced by others that tow moderate to heavy loads, and use aftermarket tow tunes. Here are my observations:
    1. I was never able to push the truck to a heat soak condition with the stock OEM tune. That isn't to say that temperatures out of range aren't possible - they are - but nothing where the truck simply 'tips over' due to temps and cannot continue;
    2. The problem starts at the turbo, and works its way through the other systems. It is further compounded by a fan clutch that engages much, much too late to keep the problem in check;
    3. Even 'mild' towing tunes by three manufacturers, under the right (wrong) conditions can initiate a heat soak. The key is to stop the soak, before it becomes critical, by either reducing load and reducing fuel rate. (Your right foot, or removing the performance tune in favor of stock.)
    The classic scenario is low speed grade climbs with a GCVW of 20K# or better, A/C on and outdoor temps of 70F or above. In most cases, the soak will start with water temps rising to 220 and above. The fan should be in at this point, but isn't yet. Transmission temps must follow, even if there isn't internal slip creating the heat - remember its going to exchange heat in the radiator for good, or for bad.

    The ability to immediately pull over and idle back to acceptable temps is important if you sense that your truck is on the way to the 'tipping point' and won't recover with fan clutch engaging at 230-240. Sometimes it simply depends on how much mountain grade is left in front of you. Returning to your stock tune always requires shutting off the truck. Do your engine a favor and let it idle back down to acceptable temps before shutting it off in these conditions. Your turbo bearings will thank you...


    MY RULES OF THE ROAD FOR TOWING WITH AFTERMARKET TUNES

    1. Stock tune must always be available - i.e. don't leave that tuner, ECM, or ability to 'return to stock' at home.
    2. A/C adds significantly to the heat load - if you can live without it, roll down the windows in the mountains and leave it off.
    3. A light foot (lower ground speed) can help to keep heat in check. Howevever, too slow can also introduce soak due to not enough airflow over the cooler stack. Try to maintain 1800-2200 rpms, and accept your ground speed for the grade.
    4. If water and tranny temps are both at 250 and climbing, you're not going to recover gracefully - unless you are cresting the top of the hill. Don't wait for the meltdown, pull over, IDLE THE TRUCK back to acceptable levels, return to stock tune.
    2011 Chevrolet Tahoe 5.3L daily driver
    • Previous owner of two 1994 6.5L K3500s, '01, '02, and '05 6.6L K2500s, '04 C4500, '06 K3500 dually, '06 K3500 SRW, '09 K3500HD SRW, '05 Denali
    • Total GM diesel miles to date : ~950K

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Morrisville, VT, USA
    Posts
    2,401

    Default

    Mark: Did GM change the T-stat on the fan clutch, with the newer models? My LB7 always kicks in at right at 210, or just slightly over.
    I did have an incident, though, over north of Van Horn, TX, on the way out around the long way to El Paso. Facing a strong headwind, and climbing up through the one mile elevation mark. Transmission went to just about 210, no higher, but, the engine went to 225, with the fan running. I had managed to stay in 5th LU, most of the time. Crested a hill before the temp got any higher and started to cool down. The Edge was talking to me at 225, but I can't hear it. My wife does, though. Not a real incident, but probably on the verge of what you're talking about. No doubt, it would be for me, too, if I was a ton or two heavier, like you.
    I DO love this truck!
    Dick
    2008 Jaco Seneca 35' motor home (Kodiak 5500 chassis). Pulling 18' Wells Cargo enclosed trailer, with 2016 Miata in it.

  3. #3

    Default

    There is a different part number for the LBZ clutch vs the LB7 clutch, and the LBZ clutch definately comes in much, much later. I am planning to compare the two side-by-side and see if an LB7 clutch can be swapped onto the LBZ fan...

    My Edge alarms are set at:
    • EGT 1400F (even though the Dmax is rated at 1400F continuous...)
    • Trans 210
    • Water 220
    Water without trans is no problem...water and then trans is time for changing something...trans without water is slippage and cause for concern...both over 250 is time to pull over and cool down, IMO.
    2011 Chevrolet Tahoe 5.3L daily driver
    • Previous owner of two 1994 6.5L K3500s, '01, '02, and '05 6.6L K2500s, '04 C4500, '06 K3500 dually, '06 K3500 SRW, '09 K3500HD SRW, '05 Denali
    • Total GM diesel miles to date : ~950K

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Lubbock,Tx.
    Posts
    162

    Default

    My LBZ fan clutch will engage at 234, don't exactly understand the reasoning for that high a set point other than the thinking that that is limit for self recovery, and not wanting to rob any additional torque until that point. It would be interesting to see dyno torque results in relation to temperature rise.....IE, at what heat load does power began to deteriorate.
    Randy
    2011 Chevy 2500HD LML
    Red with Dark Cashmer Light Cashmer
    Superglide 5th wheel hitch
    Bed Rug
    Jack Rabbit Full Metal Jacket bed cover
    Aries 4" oval step rails

    LBZ now lives in Wisc.

  5. #5

    Default

    Jim's theory is the General may have bowed to consumer complaints about the 'roar' caused by the new turbo and additional fuel rate of the LLY/LBZ transition...

    Thats a good 'roar' to have, in my book!
    2011 Chevrolet Tahoe 5.3L daily driver
    • Previous owner of two 1994 6.5L K3500s, '01, '02, and '05 6.6L K2500s, '04 C4500, '06 K3500 dually, '06 K3500 SRW, '09 K3500HD SRW, '05 Denali
    • Total GM diesel miles to date : ~950K

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Morrisville, VT, USA
    Posts
    2,401

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    Brings up another question for me, not neccessarilly proper for this thread, but. How do you feel about ellectric fans for my rig. The mfg says thats not reccomended for over 19K lbs. I don't get much fan kick-in with my rig, but of course the thing is always turning and taking power. Seems to me, I could gain some mileage with the elec. set up, but hesitating, because of the un-knowns, like that 19K lb limit that the fan peole talk about. Your thoughts?
    Dick
    2008 Jaco Seneca 35' motor home (Kodiak 5500 chassis). Pulling 18' Wells Cargo enclosed trailer, with 2016 Miata in it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    New Hampshire - Live Free or Die
    Posts
    6,058

    Default

    We've beat this around before, especially in the 6.5 forum. If the mechanical fan takes (say) 24 hp and you ever need that much cooling, no electric fan will come close. 24 HP is about 18,000 watts or more than 1200 amps. Even if you go with a 1.5 hp = 1 electric hp you're still north of 800 amps.

    That said, if you go all electric your intercooler may not work as well, and you need the fan on if the AC is on so...
    The Constitution needs to be re-read, not re-written!

    If you can't handle Dr. Seuss, how will you handle real life?

    Current oil burners: MB GLK250 BlueTEC, John Deere X758
    New ride: MB GLS450 - most stately
    Gone but not forgotten: '87 F350 7.3, '93 C2500 6.5, '95 K2500 6.5, '06 K2500HD 6.6, '90 MB 350SDL, Kubota 7510

  8. #8

    Default

    My opinion is that electric fans (...and oiled gauze air filters) are exclusively for gassers, and have no place on a (Duramax) diesel engine.
    2011 Chevrolet Tahoe 5.3L daily driver
    • Previous owner of two 1994 6.5L K3500s, '01, '02, and '05 6.6L K2500s, '04 C4500, '06 K3500 dually, '06 K3500 SRW, '09 K3500HD SRW, '05 Denali
    • Total GM diesel miles to date : ~950K

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Lubbock,Tx.
    Posts
    162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rinker View Post
    My opinion is that electric fans (...and oiled gauze air filters) are exclusively for gassers, and have no place on a (Duramax) diesel engine.
    Oil gauze filters are slow death for any engine.
    2011 Chevy 2500HD LML
    Red with Dark Cashmer Light Cashmer
    Superglide 5th wheel hitch
    Bed Rug
    Jack Rabbit Full Metal Jacket bed cover
    Aries 4" oval step rails

    LBZ now lives in Wisc.

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