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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    72

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    Thank You!
    I can't stress enough how valuable information like this is. Possessing only hand tools and limited funds (and knowledge), I don't want to get into custom axle or mount work. But I also wanted to avoid building up an axle with a posi and new parts only to have to throw all that time & $$ away when the axle broke or proved inadequate.

    We basically got the turbo for the big grades we encounter out west, especially when we are tooling around the Rockies at altitude. The Banks does a good job of this. Also to be able to pull off passes on 2-lanes around the 5-under drivers that plague Washington's highways. Even fully lit, the turbo only produces < 400 lb/ft so I think even if I was towing something moderate on a grade it wouldn't compare to a Duramax @ 700lb/ft or as you said, heavy towing. Any guidelines on how much weight does start causing problems?

    I'll give the bolt-on 80's 14 bolt (w/ wheel swap) some consideration but will likely stay with the 10 bolt. Again, thanks!

    turbo geeking tangent:
    I think the Banks was styled that way because it gave the biggest possible numbers that look good for marketing. I've got a turbocharged sporty gas car as my DD, so I'm a bit familiar with turbo selection. In the sport world people choose huge turbos that only kick on right near redline (due to very high flow/spooling requirements) but then produce stupendous power. Taken to the extreme, this produces cars known as "dyno queens" cars with turbos so powerful that they are undriveable. They produce 1000hp or whatever on the dyno but going from 150 to 800 hp in the space of 200rpm @ WOT produces uncontrollable wheelspin....so they aren't actually drivable!
    Anyways this relates to Banks in that I think they wanted to post some good numbers in a difficult application. So they chose a larger than necessary turbo with a high flow requirement. As you pointed out, a lack of wastegating compounds the issue. There are 3 ways to improve the situation:
    1. Smaller turbo. Most non-sporty turbo cars go this route because it is a very driveable setup. Minimal turbo lag, just feels like more cylinders. Some diesels have too (I believe early 12v Cummins and TDI VW's). However, don't post big numbers and run out of breath before the engine does.

    2. Sequential turbos (as opposed to twin). One small and one large, best of both worlds. E.G. RX-7, 300zx, etc...

    3. Variable Vane Geometry Turbos. Using technology invented by Honeywell for the high-bypass turbofan in aviation, they can change the effective size of the exhaust housing. Pretty cool, very expensive, and currently used by all diesel engines for all makes sold in the US, IIRC.

    Anyways, I'm still trying to learn more about wastegating as it applies to flow rates but it clearly has an effect. I read an article that used the banks kit but substituted the Ford IDI Banks turbo like you mentioned for the same reasons. Unfortunately they didn't get into drivability or do much post-analysis after the install. After a long line of other chassis upgrades though I would consider a turbo swap.

    /turbo rant
    Rojo Grande
    1991 GMC Suburban V2500ish
    every option included, every option broken
    265K on the 3rd, yes 3rd motor
    6.5 block/heads, 6.2 plumbing
    Banks Turbo, 4" exhaust
    33" BFG-MT on black wheels
    3/4 ton axle swap

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    erie,pa
    Posts
    104

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    From my experience a 14 bolt 10.5 full floater is the only way to go. the semi floaters were known for occasional problems. Go with 4.10's the difference is so minimal it's not worth even doing the math. The beauty of the 14 bolt is they are available in a variety of apps, vans, 2wd, 4wd, 3/4 1ton etc.. check your spring perch location (width) for alignment & find the 14 bolt for you. Detroit lockers are the bomb in that axle you can do it yourself, the carrier gets reused unlike other axles you only replace the spiders and (cross) that's why they are several hundred less for the 14 bolt full floater. Enough savings to buy the axle. I used to run a 14 bolt in the back and a 10 bolt up front. I had 6 lug up front and 8 in the back it's not a crime to do that! I would put about 800 pds in the back and plowed in 2wd most of the time.
    87 crew cab dually 2wd w/6.2 converted to 4wd and working on 6.6 lb7 transplant. frame up restoration.
    04 e350 w/6.0 work van
    00 24' prowler

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    120

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    1991 will have a 30 spline rear axle unless someone pulled it and swapped it for some reason. 1989 was the first year the rear 10 bolts got 30 spline axleshafts. Makes them about as strong as a 12 bolt. Bit iffy for a Burb that will see some decent towing.

    I'd say 3.73's will get you better mpg and 4.10's will get you more low speed driving torque.

    Little late to the party but I'd suggest either a 6 lug 14SF swap out of a K2500LD from the next body style or a whole 3/4 ton axle swap.

    Swapping in a 14SF from the newer body style just requires a competent welder and someone good with a grinder or a plasma cutter. Remove the spring pads and shock mounts and have them reinstalled in the correct locations. Might need some rear driveshaft mods and there is a conversion rear axle u-joint for doing this.
    MAKE SURE YOU FIND ONE OUT OF A 4X4! The 2wds had a narrower rear axle than the 4x4's.


    Either that...or do a whole 3/4 ton axle swap. I've seen matching sets of 4.10 geared rear axles go for under $400. 73-87(91) 3/4 ton axles would bolt into your truck.
    -89 K5 Blazer. "The Blazer." 6.2L diesel, 33's, Rhino Lining, and stock(ish). Tow rig, play toy, and general fun.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    72

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    Okay It's been awhile but it took me about that long to decide on what I wanted, build funds, etc. Here's what I've ended up doing.

    1985 K20 3/4 ton full axle swap.
    This ends up being a front, 10 bolt, 8.5" open diff axle with 4.10 gearing and 8 lug hubs
    Rear 14 bolt, 9.5", semi-floating Gov-lock (LSD) diff, 4.10 gearing, 8 lug hubs on large drums.

    Cost me $400 used, which seemed reasonable after researching my local market.
    Here's what led me to the decision (to aid others):
    Changing gears on my stock axles to 3.90 would have cost be about $1100 in the end, after factoring in the tools I didn't yet have (hydraulic press). This price included an Auburn/Eaton positraction diff that i wanted. However, unlike just wrenching in some axles there appeared to be a good bit of measuring, feeler gauging, and other stuff that could go wrong. And I have the same axles still.

    With the swap I get the beefy rear axle, and everything's already installed. Added bonus is a decent increase in rear end braking power, judging by the signficant increase in rear hub size. The downside is, yes, I had to buy brand new 16" 8 lug wheels and tires to match. I looked into 6 lug 14 bolts but they are, at this point, insanely rare (nonexistent locally, only nationally available). I looked into 15" 8 lugs but they are really designed for jeeps and upon digging found that the load rating is inadequate for a full size truck/suburban. I emphasize that because the information is really buried and that's pretty important. So 16" it is, and had to be new because all the wheels on the used market were off newer trucks with a very positive offset (would pull the wheels in and reduce track width on older trucks). There were a couple correct-offset old style CL wheels but they were rusted and BUTT UGLY.

    So I take a loss on the wheels. Turns out my tires only had 30% tread left anyways and as I need them for traction, not just road legality they were pretty shot for my purposes so I am not really losing much on buying new tires (M/Ts that're gunna be suuweeeet!). So that's the math and technical reasons that led me there. It took a lot of research and running numbers so I hope that helps someone else. 1985, as noted by others, should be a direct bolt on. I've cleaned and painted them but have not yet thrown them on the truck (that's today's project!). I'll post back only if there are hiccups.

    Between the "HD" intake manifold and the full 3/4 ton axle swap I'm 2 shocks and some springs away from driving the mythical V2500 diesel suburban. Time for a rebadge!!
    Rojo Grande
    1991 GMC Suburban V2500ish
    every option included, every option broken
    265K on the 3rd, yes 3rd motor
    6.5 block/heads, 6.2 plumbing
    Banks Turbo, 4" exhaust
    33" BFG-MT on black wheels
    3/4 ton axle swap

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    120

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    Sounds good man. Most 15" tires are a load range C which is iffy for any kind of heavy towing. Folks just don't realize that. I put 16" tires on The Blazer just because I liked the higher load range and taller/narrower tires were more common.

    FYI you don't need dual front shocks. Just put some good aftermarket singles up front and the duals will be irrelevant. Those are from the days when shock technology wasn't near what is has been even on the bargain basement aftermarket shocks. Just compare the difference in body and piston size between a set of Rancho/Superlift/Tuff Country/Skyjacker/etc shocks and some ACDelco replacement shocks.
    -89 K5 Blazer. "The Blazer." 6.2L diesel, 33's, Rhino Lining, and stock(ish). Tow rig, play toy, and general fun.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    72

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    Good to know about the shocks. I wasn't so much worried about the C load tires (old were C, now have E) as the wheels. The 15" 8 lug wheels I found were usually 1600lbs/wheel, which only totals 6400lbs . The GVWR on my V1500 sub is 7300lbs! I found one set 1800/wheel (still no thanks) and some others that were unlisted (also not buying). I don't know what a taco'd truck wheel looks like but I don't want to find out!
    Rojo Grande
    1991 GMC Suburban V2500ish
    every option included, every option broken
    265K on the 3rd, yes 3rd motor
    6.5 block/heads, 6.2 plumbing
    Banks Turbo, 4" exhaust
    33" BFG-MT on black wheels
    3/4 ton axle swap

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    120

    Default

    Kinda like an oval...ask me how I know.


    Good point there as well. I had the factory 15x8 Rally's so I wasn't too worried about their strength but yes, aftermarket is pretty skeevy sometimes.
    My aluminum 16x8's are rated at something like 2000lbs or more. More than enough for my Blazer.
    -89 K5 Blazer. "The Blazer." 6.2L diesel, 33's, Rhino Lining, and stock(ish). Tow rig, play toy, and general fun.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    erie,pa
    Posts
    104

    Default

    Don't forget as you go up in load rating on your tires they typically have a harder compound, hence come winter they won't be quite as nice on the ice as the softer "c" that you had before.
    87 crew cab dually 2wd w/6.2 converted to 4wd and working on 6.6 lb7 transplant. frame up restoration.
    04 e350 w/6.0 work van
    00 24' prowler

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