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Thread: '97 6.5TD Would Start but shuts down aft 10 - 30 sec, wont start again for several da

  1. #1
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    Question '97 6.5TD Would Start but shuts down aft 10 - 30 sec, wont start again for several da

    Started shutting down suddenly, would restart after 3 or 4 sec. Would run several days, shut down and restart. Interval kept getting closer. Finally shut down 5 times in 1 mile, got it home and parked it. Would not restart. Thought bad fuel pump (frame), replaced, no joy. Replaced fuel filter, bled, no joy. Replaced crank shaft sensor, no joy. Cranked today, ran 5 sec, shutdown no restart. Checked for codes, says comp ok, all other checks, n.a. Plenty of fuel at filter bleed and air bleeder valve. The only thing I notice is new fuel pump runs about 10-15 sec before shutting off. Before I changed out the fuel pump it would only run 3 or 4 sec and shut off - may just be a diff. pump ? Have rechecked and tighten fuel lines at pump but was shutting down before same as now. Suspects ? Need help. Checked other threads: Column switch? PMD what is that? other stuf - IP, ? injector pump, hope not - expensive! When motoring engine to start, oil pressure reads 40psi, that should be ok unless bad/eratic switch ? Is there a IP pressure switch that can go crazy (bad)? Where is it and how do I check it? Any help would be appreciated. I am having trouble trying to figer out how to nav these threads, my e-mail is flsparks@gmail.com Thank you for any help! James H.

  2. #2
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    Welcome aboard!

    This appears to be a text book description of a failed PMD. That's the little black box mounted on the left (driver's) side of the injection pump. The best diagnostic for this it to use a known-good PMD for testing. If you replace it, leave the original where it is, and install a remote FSD (same thing, different location) outside the engine compartment on a heatsink, using an extended PMD cable.
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

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    Default James H.

    It has been a day and no one has offered any help, this must be a really busy forum. So, been doing alot of checking and the world would have me to believe that a 95% chance it is my PMD. ok! Now I may have a dumb or something likethat question. Are all the PMDs exactly the same - no, so why do some have a #6 or #7 etc differant resistor. Everyone says don't take off the old PMD, replace it with a new and relocate or get an extension and mount on a heat sink and relocate. OK, good advise, I will do that but the question remains, IF mine has a #6 resistor in the PMD and I don't know that and replace the PMD with one that has say a #7, how much if any differance will it make or am I just on a witch hunt. I hate like hell to spend $200 or so on a PMD, mount it and it doesn't work, all because I did not want to take off the old PMD and see what I had. Some of the new PMD have on the box, #6 #7 etc. Any comments? Am I just looking for more problems, and I'm really gonna be P#$@^% if it isn't the PMD anyway. Help Help Help James H.

  4. #4
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    Default James H.

    Sorry Dmax, just saw your post, thanks, you are concuring with what Bill my neighbor and couple of others have told me, nothing 100%, because small chance it could still be something else but generally the bet is the PMD. I don't know anyone with a 6.5td, there probably are some but it would take awhile to find it. Guess I'm gonna be good to go on a new one, ouch! Just sort of confused about the resistor thing. My truck is a K10. I don't guess that has anything to do with, say it was a C15, just as long as they are all '67 6.5TD ?? Everty time I buy a part they (parts place)want every thing up to my wife's birthday! I'm getting to old to mess under the hood anyway. Thanks again and if you see this post, any help on the resistor if it makes any differance. James H.

  5. #5
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    It certainly could be something else. Unless you've gone through the entire diagnostic process (listed in the stickies on this and other forums, or in the TDP books), this is where I suggest where you start. It's difficult to diagnose a problem staring at a screen full of a bunch of dots. It's a factor of likelihoods, according to what I and others here have seen and experienced. If it turns out that it is something else, we've done you a favor by encouraging rule #1: Get a spare PMD and keep it with you. The likelihoods indicate you'll need it, sooner or later. It's like insurance, we pay for it, hoping we never need it. I'd rather waste money on insurance than get my money's worth.

    There are different brands of PMD's, but all of them are interchangeable. D-Tech seems to be about as good as any, and better than most. The new Stanadyne PMD (new and improved gray box) requires a harness adapter, or connector modification (but the PMD is still compatible, don't ask me why).

    The resistor thing is overrated. Going to a higher number can produce a little more power, but none, and I mean NONE, will be anything you can feel in the seat of your pants. If you dyno before and after, you may see a couple more HP, but no more. This is assuming a basically stock/OEM setup. There may be more to gain in the performance ring, but it takes some fine tuning to realize any of it. The resistor is ONLY for pump fine tuning of the mechanical calibration. The resistor is matched to the pump, and nothing else. If you change it, you risk out-thinking the engineers, and that leads to an unhappy PCM. Many new PMD's that include the resistor will either have a #5 (almost always safe under any condition), or a #9 (marketing point, to get more "power", but will sometimes leave the customer with PCM issues). Unless you have a specific reason, it's best to either reuse the one you have (tricky to remove in place), install the same # (if you know what yours is), or just install a #5.
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

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    Default James H.

    OK, you gave me what I needed to know, feel alot better already, now I can go out and buy me a PMD. CLIFF send me by e-mail a good idea of what he did, maybe I can be so lucky. He found an IP with a PMD on it that was good, deal for $25. Some people can fall into a hole and find Gold at the bottom! Thanks again and I will keep you updated on my progress.

  7. #7
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    A scanner can tell you what resistor is currently installed.
    The Constitution needs to be re-read, not re-written!

    If you can't handle Dr. Seuss, how will you handle real life?

    Current oil burners: MB GLK250 BlueTEC, John Deere X758
    New ride: MB GLS450 - most stately
    Gone but not forgotten: '87 F350 7.3, '93 C2500 6.5, '95 K2500 6.5, '06 K2500HD 6.6, '90 MB 350SDL, Kubota 7510

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    Wink James H.

    OK, Thanks to all the help from you guys! Based on all the advise I received that the cure to my 6.5L TD K15 was the Fuel Pump Drive Module aka Pump Mound Driver (PMD) aka Fuel Solenoid Driver (FSD) - same thing. YEA, it is a real trip to locate and much less remove, so I unhooked the harness (actually Shawn did), bought a new PMD (Dorman 904-104) with a #5 & #9 resistor (installed the #5 on PMD, purchased a harness extension and heat sink, built my own mounting frame and installed it in the air intake hole on driver side of front bumper. Cranked right up, runs like a champ. It will receive plenty of fresh air, it might be hot fresh air off the black top on a hot August day, but still cooler than inside the engine compartment, on that same hot day under a red light waiting for traffic. I still don't know what original resistor was in the old PMD, runs fine for me with the #5. Thanks again for all the good and correct help. James H.

  9. #9
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    The PCM doesn't know you installed a new FSD and probably doesn't know you changed the resistor. It only reads the resistor under very specific circumstances. You can likely still read the value of the original resistor with a scanner, if you're still interested.
    The Constitution needs to be re-read, not re-written!

    If you can't handle Dr. Seuss, how will you handle real life?

    Current oil burners: MB GLK250 BlueTEC, John Deere X758
    New ride: MB GLS450 - most stately
    Gone but not forgotten: '87 F350 7.3, '93 C2500 6.5, '95 K2500 6.5, '06 K2500HD 6.6, '90 MB 350SDL, Kubota 7510

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    Talking James H.

    JohnC - I hate to appear to be such a "Dork" but I really don't know what kind of scanner, is. I borrowed a handheld computer thing to check my codes when I was first shut down, all it ever indicated was computer ok and everthing else was n/a, had a neighbor who was supposed to be pretty much in the know about what I was trying to do. I set it up according to it's instructions and pressed enter and that is all it told me. First, I don't know if that is what you are referring to or something else. Long ago I worked on car engines before everthing went computer, etc. Now I am pretty much at a loss on what the heck this stuff is. I only went this far in trying to fix the truck so I could sell, my wife and I both lost our jobs on 31 Aug, and I need it gone. Now, I have to solve another problem, I have a fuel leak, finally tracked it to the bottom of fuel filter canaster. The ring at top is secure, rubber seal is correctly seated, does not leak at bleed valve. On bottom - three fuel lines, cut one off and reclamped, other two ok. Leaks 1 drop every 20 seconds until canaster is empty. When start engine, cranks and runs perfect, does not pump air into injectors, does not even burp! Friday morning 7 Oct, will work on it again, take off bolts, remove filter and see whatever else it takes to take off canister, if I can see it, maybe (?) I can find the fault. Anyway, thank you for your help. I love the 6.5td in my K15 but it is underpower for my RV, was going to buy another truck but now I'll try to also sell the RV and this truck. Can't eat the truck and drink the diesel. Ha, take care.

  11. #11
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    There's a lot more data available than just codes. A Tech II or probably the laptop package from Kennedy or Engh will give you a lot more information.
    The Constitution needs to be re-read, not re-written!

    If you can't handle Dr. Seuss, how will you handle real life?

    Current oil burners: MB GLK250 BlueTEC, John Deere X758
    New ride: MB GLS450 - most stately
    Gone but not forgotten: '87 F350 7.3, '93 C2500 6.5, '95 K2500 6.5, '06 K2500HD 6.6, '90 MB 350SDL, Kubota 7510

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    Angry James H.

    Latest on my headache! Pulled the fuel filter canaster, hard to get to but it happened. 2 bolts released canaster and wiring bundle frame. Had to unsnap and pull back a couple of bundles (really tight space), unhooked two fuel lines in back and 1 in front, out it came. Canaster in good shape, bottom ring was a little loose, removed - some corrison on gasket and seats on both sides. Cleaned the gasket, checked all parts stores for new gasket or O ring, NONE! So, after through cleaning, put it all back together and reinstall. Purged and started, runs good, no problem EXCEPT still have the fuel leak, same very slow drip. You can see the drip from bottom of canaster but can not find the source. Thinking, the fuel line nipples are not cast with the canaster, holes are cast/drilled into the canaster and tubing nipples are forced into the canaster wall, could be seeping? ? ? Anyone ever have this crazy problem or am I missing something? Looking now to find a used one off a dead 6.5 somewhere. Hate to buy a newone and it be something else. Can not prove that fuel is not leaking down a fuel line but hoses appear to all run uphill to the canaster, really hard to tell.

  13. #13
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    I had the same type of leak. It ended up being at the front of the engine, running back across the valley and down the back. It was the fuel shut-off solenoid. Very easy to fix, and solved the problem. Take a look up there.
    Jeffrey Todd
    _ _ _ _ ___ _ _ _ _
    '96 6.5TD GMC Suburban 2500 4x4 - 300,000 miles, JK remote FSD, Dual Thermostats

  14. #14
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    Water in fuel sensor o-ring in the filter manager bad maybe?
    2005 Chev K3500 CCLB

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    Red face James H.

    Fri evening and zip. Well, I pulled the canister off again, this is getting to be a real pita! Removed the water sensor and cked the O ring and "looked" like no leak. The fuel shut-off solenoid leak? Maybe, with a flashlight you can see the ripples in the fuel buildup in the valley when it drips, really appears to be from the bottom of the canister, which is wet. So, I'm beting it is the O ring for the heater. I pulled the O ring before and cleaned it, also both seats. Cannot find an O ring anywhere, even NAPA or the GM truck repair in Jacksonville FL. NO ONE seems to have one that size. So, am biting the bullet, now trying to find a replacement for the whole assembly, with the heater and water sensor, several to chooze from, guess tomorrow I'll hit the street and see who has what in stock? It doesn't get that cold in FL but I might end up driving to WV in winter, (might get me a deer?) would be nice to have the heater then, so have to consider that. It only got to 12deg once last winter, very rare, so might get away without the heater, not that much experience that area? Anyway, thanks again for the input, will post again next week. James H.

  16. #16
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    Default James H.

    Just remembered, can't work on truck tomorrow, till then, can anyone recommend a replacement for the '67 6.5td fuel filter assembly, original style FM100 I think. Just wondering?

  17. #17
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    Here is an example:

    http://xxx.thedieselstore.com/templa...A29367&VehNum=

    Change xxx to proper letters.

    First one that showed up on google,there may be cheaper options.
    2005 Chev K3500 CCLB

  18. #18
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    The leak you are having is most likely coming "Through" the heater itself due to an internal leak from corrosion.

    This is a common issue with these fuel managers.

    I have had this a couple times on the same type units.

    A racor model 230R2 filter assembly mounted up front on a little fabricated bracket bolted to the holes that hold the front of the ABS unit to the inner fender.

    Remove and discard the old filter assembly and its hoses that go under the intake manifold.

    using a barbed brass hose connector, add enough new hose to reach the new filter then run a new hose over to the injector pump inlet fitting.

    The Racor filter assembly has a clear bowl on the bottom that allows you to see any water or crud.
    The filter element is a spin on type and easy to change.

    Simply remove the old one, spin on the new one, open the bleeder valve and either use the built in fuel primer pump or activate the electric lift pump to purge the air and your set.

    The factory filter is far too small and not nearly as good as it needs to be.

    The racor can be purchased with a heater, but unless you are seeing temps that are really low ( minus numbers) I would not worry too much
    Just make sure you buy winterized fuel wehn its cold.

    If in doubt, buy your winter fuel at the truck stop just to be safe.

    To sum it up, the factory fuel manager is a POS and not worth spending any $$$$ on to fix it.

    The Racor unit also has a water drain too.

    You can hook a little hose on the drain of the bowl and with the engine running or using the lift pump, simply crack open the drain and purge any water from the bowl.

    The best part is that you can see what is in the thing.

    The R2 filter is a 2 micron and will plug faster than the factory unit if your fuel supply is dirtier than it should be.

    Most truck stops keep fairly good filters in their systems.

    I have seen some suppliers that were selling real slop too.

    Most parts houses can get you the 230R2 racor or you can find it online.

    Here is one listing http://www.allpointsmarineco.com/category/245/

    Keep in mind that these systems need to be able to flow 45 gallons per hour.

    The system flows a lot of fuel through and back to the tank.

    Dont be tempted to use a small filter as it can cause fuel flow issues.

    The factory units are rated at about 5-10 microns filtration (can't find an absolute rating) so the 2 mic racor is way better at keeping the dirt out of the pump.

    Good luck and keep us posted

    Missy
    (1) 1995 Suburban 2500 4x4
    (1) 1997 Astro
    (1) 2005 Suburban (Papa Smurf)
    THIS IS BOW TIE COUNTRY

  19. #19
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    Default James H.

    Missy -Thanks for the post, appreciate all the good info. I had run across the Racor 230R2 in my search but wouldn't go there without putting my hands on it, was wondering about the mount and you took the wrinkle out of that, thanks. I'll check on the local parts and see I can turn one there. Was also looking at the TX-293, looks like a replacement but for a '99, looks like a small filter also! The fuel line (in or out) looks like a mounting problem, ouch. You really needs hands on these parts, small town dealers/truck parts just don't stockem. Will keep the post going. Love to read all of everyone else's problems, ha, now have my own, but sharing sure helps. Thanks, Jim.

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