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Thread: Died like it was turned off

  1. #21
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    Thanks John, yes I have checked the fuse and no I haven't put my hand to the back of the pump, I don't think I can get there even with the top of the intake manifold off but I will check. I cranked the truck another 20 or thirty times yesterday, 15 seconds crank, ten minutes rest. I now have fuel seeping from the front line on both sides and the second line on the dirvers side. I am beginning to be of the opinion that Dmax said it right, that my pump is probably weak. That would account for the difficulty clearing the air lock and it might account for the hard starts as well. I guess I am going to keep cranking on it and see what happens.
    CCC
    _______

    1997 K1500 6.5 (S) 4X4
    1976 Pete 359
    1958 Dodge Powerwagon 4X4
    1986 Am Gen M925 5Ton 6x6

  2. #22
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    can't remember if this was already covered, but your lift pump is running, right?

    IE: good supply to the pump....
    1998 k2500

  3. #23
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    greatwhite; yes the fuel pump is functioning, in fact, I hard wired it so I could keep it on when I am trying to start the truck. I called the pump shop that I was told built this pump four or five years ago. They told me that Standyne pumps are self purging. He suggested I take off the bypass? valve. Looking at the front of the truck it is on the immediate left of the fuel shutoff solenoid. He said they often fail. I have a pump from a bone yard so I replaced the valve with the one off the spare. I didn't notice any difference so I put a section of clear tubing from the bypass valve to the hose that normally goes on it. Boy did I get a surprise! When I turn the truck over, fuel pours out the bypass valve. I thought fuel was supposed to go IN that valve. I traced the hose and it T's going to each side of the motor and connects the rubber tubes that go on each side of the injectors. My question is, why is fuel coming out of this valve and what would happen if I put a solid plug in it? Could I raise the pressure in the pump enough to do any good?
    CCC
    _______

    1997 K1500 6.5 (S) 4X4
    1976 Pete 359
    1958 Dodge Powerwagon 4X4
    1986 Am Gen M925 5Ton 6x6

  4. #24
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    Fuel comes out the bypass valve, then to the rubber lines that connects to a common return tube that runs down the RH side of the engine just under the intake manifold runners.

    This line runs to the rear of the engine, where it connects to a rubber hose and on to the tank.

    The small hoses from each injector also connect to the return line system up near the front of the engine.

    One hard return line (steel) runs across the front of the engine right behind the timing case and picks up the return from both sides and the injection pump.
    Thee is a jumper hose that connects this line to the line that runs to the rear of the engine.

    These systems return a large quantity of fuel back to the tank.
    This process is done to cool the injection pump.

    These systems will self purge. Now this said, if the system has been run dry and is full of air, it can take a while.

    If you hve a dry system, the best way to purge it is to remove the glow plugs and spin the engine until fuel mist blows out the glow plug ports.

    This will work fairly quickly.

    Robyn
    (1) 1995 Suburban 2500 4x4
    (1) 1997 Astro
    (1) 2005 Suburban (Papa Smurf)
    THIS IS BOW TIE COUNTRY

  5. #25
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    Nov 2010
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    I have turned this motor over enough to count as mileage and I still don't get fuel out of the lines. LOTS through the bypass valve. How hard is it to put a rebuilt pump on? Do I have to take the radiator out? I have to take the intake manifold off, get that. Looks like I have to take the AC compressor off (bad news there if I do.) What else? Probably a thread on this isn't there?
    CCC
    _______

    1997 K1500 6.5 (S) 4X4
    1976 Pete 359
    1958 Dodge Powerwagon 4X4
    1986 Am Gen M925 5Ton 6x6

  6. #26
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    Apr 2010
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    3 mounting nuts, 8 injector lines, a couple electrical connections and fuel lines.

    You've got the intake manifold bit already.

    AC doesn't have to be disconnected, but unbolting the 4 mount bolts and moving it aside can help for access. Pretty sure you could do it without even unbolting the ac mounting.

    Not too hard to change at all. At least, not the physical parts of it.

    Install is reverse of removal.

    Maybe a day to get it off and another day to get it back together and running if you take it easy wrenching. Can be done in a day if you work at it with some determination.

    Hint: label your injector lines before removal and/or take pics.

    Then bleed, bleed, bleed all over again..

    You do the initial instal with the pump "straight up" and then you need a scanner that can read the timing to set base timing.

    Once based timing is set, you need to do TDCO relearn. Since you're OBDII, you can have the truck initiate it with a KOKO procedure. That should be on the forum here somewhere. The scanner can tell you what your TDCO setting is and adjust from there if it's not where you want or out of specs.

    That's kind of quick and dirty, but it's "the nut" of it......
    1998 k2500

  7. #27
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    Dec 2009
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    In the North
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    I had a lift pump fail, but made the right noises,. what i noticed was lack of performance, idle was fine etc,
    i,ve changed pumps,. i,ve run out of fuel,. i,ve helped folks who have had fuel problems and haven't ever had a problem getting a 6.5 computer or mechanical IP to prime and go,.
    I have had one that refused to go,. and it was the IP, but it shut off while idling and then would not start again,.

    Nick
    1999 chev suburban C2500
    300,000 mi

  8. #28
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    Nov 2010
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    Phantom309, I hear ya, I had a previous shutoff solenoid fail and the truck started right away after it was changed. Unfortunately, that isn't happening. I decided to try and start the truck AGAIN, just for laughs. I cracked three injector lines and I am getting fuel seeping out of two of the three. So, community, I have a question, can fuel from the bypass lines account for that? If not, can a pump be bad and just, kinda pump?
    CCC
    _______

    1997 K1500 6.5 (S) 4X4
    1976 Pete 359
    1958 Dodge Powerwagon 4X4
    1986 Am Gen M925 5Ton 6x6

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccc View Post
    Phantom309, I hear ya, I had a previous shutoff solenoid fail and the truck started right away after it was changed. Unfortunately, that isn't happening. I decided to try and start the truck AGAIN, just for laughs. I cracked three injector lines and I am getting fuel seeping out of two of the three. So, community, I have a question, can fuel from the bypass lines account for that? If not, can a pump be bad and just, kinda pump?
    Simply, yes. Flow isn't pressure, and pressure is required to pop the injectors. If you are getting fuel to one, or several injectors, it should at least try to fire. If you are getting fuel to flow, forget the lift pump for now. If it's bad, it isn't stopping fuel from getting to the IP, and the IP is pumping. Also rule out electronics/electrics (PCM/PMD), if it's moving fuel, it's getting command and the fuel solenoid is working. No fuel to the cylinders, not enough pressure to pop them. The remaining curiosity is the condition of failure. They usually don't just "quit". Not that it couldn't happen, at the same time. Just curious.
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  10. #30
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    Dmax, I tried it again and it is starting to try and fire. I think it is going to start - eventually but I have to think that as hard as this is, if the pump is not bad it's getting close. I has been running great before this but I guess they all have to go sometime. I just got a new code "251" and that doesn't look good! My list says it is the fuel metering code for the IP. Oops! Not sure why I would just now be getting it but that can't be good! Never the less, I am going to stay with this a bit before I take the pump off. I can't afford to buy one right now anyway.
    CCC
    _______

    1997 K1500 6.5 (S) 4X4
    1976 Pete 359
    1958 Dodge Powerwagon 4X4
    1986 Am Gen M925 5Ton 6x6

  11. #31
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    Yeah. It really sounds like your pump is getting tired. Wish I had a better opinion, but it is what it is. If it's trying, that's all that's left. Maybe try more glow time. Have you tried removing all the plugs, and cranking? It helps to get it primed, by a lot.
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  12. #32
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    Apr 2010
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    I hate to sound like a broken record but p0251 is consistent with an "air in the fuel" condition.

    I say keep going if you think it's going to fire and see what you get.

    Removing the glow plugs for priming is a good suggestion you should follow. Even if it's only one side. Makes it easier for the starter to build some rpm which makes purging air (assuming thats the issue) much more effective. Just be ready to shut it off quickly as the side with the glow plugs still in will catch and run when/if you get enough fuel to pop the injectors...
    1998 k2500

  13. #33
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    Greaaaat: Don't know how or why, but I broke a starter bolt! This morning, I went out to give her another try and found one of the bolts lying on the ground. I took the starter off, hoping there was at least a stub showing - no luck. The bolt is broken off about 1/2 inch into the housing. I have never attempted to remove one but I can tell this is going to be tricky! I assume it is a matter of drilling a hole to put one of those things that sort of screw in opposite. If there are any tricks that would be helpful, please let me know. I won't be able to work on it for a couple of weeks now, Vacation Bible School starts tomorrow! By the way, let me say again how much I appreciate all the encouragement and help you all are. I really am not a mechanic and I wouldn't even CONSIDER trying any of this without this website. I really am quite grateful.
    CCC
    _______

    1997 K1500 6.5 (S) 4X4
    1976 Pete 359
    1958 Dodge Powerwagon 4X4
    1986 Am Gen M925 5Ton 6x6

  14. #34
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    Ouch! Insult added to injury. Was the front support bracket installed? If not, you're up close and personal with the reason for it. If it was, you are just enjoying my luck. (I have enough for everyone)

    Yes, an EZ-Out is what you'll need. I suggest the "twisted" type. Start smaller (1/4" dia.). Make sure the hole is drilled straight (if it hits the threads, it'll "stake" the bolt in place). Use a cobalt or at least a "nitride" type bit. Go slow, keep straight, and DON'T break the bit. If you can find a left-hand bit, they are MUCH better, and often turn out the broken bolt before you ever get to use the EZ-Out. Once drilled, heat the block with a propane torch (watch out for flammables!), then use a stick of wax or crayon to wick wax into the threads. Keep the heat outside (don't heat the bolt). Go slow. If the bit loses bite, back up and start over. Heat, wax, and tapping in of the bit is half of the job. Apply some turning force while tapping. I use a Vise-Grip on the bit, as it won't (normally) allow enough force to break it. It should thread out without too much force. DO NOT use enough force to break the bit. It's as hard, or harder, than your drill bits! This will either be a 10 minute piece-O'-cake job, or a nightmare you'll not soon forget. Rule #1: DON'T break the bits. Rule #2: (there is no #2).
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  15. #35
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    Yep the front brace was in place, just lucky I guess. Dmax this will tell you what a novice you are working with here - I assume I run the drill in reverse if I find a left twist bit correct? I am thinking night mare I won't forget here.
    CCC
    _______

    1997 K1500 6.5 (S) 4X4
    1976 Pete 359
    1958 Dodge Powerwagon 4X4
    1986 Am Gen M925 5Ton 6x6

  16. #36
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    Yes. A left-twist drill bit turns opposite.
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  17. #37
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    If you're really lucky, there's no toque left on the stub in the hole and you can fool it out with a pick by turning it.

    But, you'd have to have one heck of a turn around in your bad luck streak to get it that way....
    1998 k2500

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhite View Post
    If you're really lucky, there's no toque left on the stub in the hole and you can fool it out with a pick by turning it.

    But, you'd have to have one heck of a turn around in your bad luck streak to get it that way....
    Good luck with that....and that!
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  19. #39
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    South Russell, Ohio
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    This happened to me not so long ago. Same situation. I had the left hand drill bit on hand. One tap with a center punch and put the bit in and it backed it right out, slicker than snot!! I would try the left twist bit before going the easy out route. Good luck.
    1996 K2500 Suburban
    Second owner, Former Fire Dept Vehicle
    "F" Engine, 4:10's looking for 3:73's
    D-TECH Remote mounted PMD, HO water pump
    1998 air box with K&N filter
    Fluidampr
    17" GMC Alloy Wheels with 265 70 R17's
    RACOR 490 fuel filter with heater and 2 Micron Filter

  20. #40
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    rural western Mo
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    Greatwhite, I love your optimism! Dmax I appreciate you tutelage and JFerg65 thanks for the encouragement! I won’t be able to address this for ten days or so now but I will try and find a left twist drill bit during that time and hopefully, it will work out. Thanks all. I will post again when I am able to get back on this project!
    CCC
    _______

    1997 K1500 6.5 (S) 4X4
    1976 Pete 359
    1958 Dodge Powerwagon 4X4
    1986 Am Gen M925 5Ton 6x6

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