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Thread: Died like it was turned off

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Yukon Canada
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    1,612

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    Hi ccc
    get a hold of the Snapon dealer near you,they have an extractor kit,which has left hand tungsten drill bit's in it.They ussally have extra ones for the ones that break.
    Thomas
    90 Chev 3500 c/c 4x4,6.2na,400 auto,4:10 gears.DSG Timing gears,main girdle, isspro tach, pyro,boost,oil and trany temp.Dual Tstats, High volume peninsular pump,on shelf, Custom turbo and intercooler 85%complete. Change of plans for the dually, it's going to get a Cummins. Both trucks are Blue 90 4x4 crews

  2. #42
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    Apr 2012
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    hernando ms
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    Fellas I hope this is not inapproiate to jump in on someone elses thread but starting yesterday this entire senerio is step for step exactly what im going through with my 95 3500. A week ago I ran mine out of fuel, added fuel, drove to the station and filled up (about two miles). Yesterday, I tried to start it up for quick run to pick up a Tahoe I just purchased, Nothing!! I have bypassed the fuel relay and purged the lines and filter, I have fuel pressure to the pump, changed the shut off valve, swapped PMDs twice, cracked the injector lines with no fuel coming out of them. Also tried starting fluid just enough to see it will fire and try to start. After driving this for two miles I cant beleive there is air in the system. The pump is a junk yard pump about two years old and one of the best running pumps ive had so i hate to replace it unless i have to. At this point I have about convinced myself the inj pump is the problem but Ya'll brought up the crank shaft sensor and Im not sure what part this sensor plays or how to inspect or test this sensor. Can you help?

  3. #43
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    Apr 2012
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    hernando ms
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    17

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    Ok I'll start a new thread.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    rural western Mo
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    94

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    Awesome Yukon6.2 that's exactly what I will do! Good luck Billy1971, I hope your issue goes smoother than mine is!
    CCC
    _______

    1997 K1500 6.5 (S) 4X4
    1976 Pete 359
    1958 Dodge Powerwagon 4X4
    1986 Am Gen M925 5Ton 6x6

  5. #45
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    Nov 2010
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    rural western Mo
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    Eureka! Okay I didn't discover how to determine the volume of gold but I did get the broken bolt out of the block! Thanks to the advice and encouragement of the folk here! To make sure I didn't drill off to the side of the broken bolt, I cut a one inch piece of the bolt and drilled through it to use as a guide. I then put it on the drill bit leaving about 1/8th of the bit exposed. Using a left turn bit (as suggested) I began to drill out the broken bolt. As I put pressure on the bolt, it began to unscrew and in just a few minutes, it worked it's way to the point where I could reach it with my fingers and remove it. I am leaving town shortly for a few days but when I get back I am going to put a bone yard starter on and see if this truck starts! Thanks again to all for helping and encouraging.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    CCC
    _______

    1997 K1500 6.5 (S) 4X4
    1976 Pete 359
    1958 Dodge Powerwagon 4X4
    1986 Am Gen M925 5Ton 6x6

  6. #46
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    South Russell, Ohio
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    280

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    Glad to hear it came right out for you. I like how you center drilled a section of the old bolt to keep you from wandering. I will definitely file that tip away for future reference. It sure is a good feeling when something that has the potential to turn into a real cluster #$%^ ends up working slicker than snot!!!

    Hope you get back on the road soon.
    1996 K2500 Suburban
    Second owner, Former Fire Dept Vehicle
    "F" Engine, 4:10's looking for 3:73's
    D-TECH Remote mounted PMD, HO water pump
    1998 air box with K&N filter
    Fluidampr
    17" GMC Alloy Wheels with 265 70 R17's
    RACOR 490 fuel filter with heater and 2 Micron Filter

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    New Hampshire - Live Free or Die
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    Sometimes you can find a bushing at the hardware store that'll do the same thing. I've used steel bushings, aluminum, and even nylon ones for the same purpose.
    The Constitution needs to be re-read, not re-written!

    If you can't handle Dr. Seuss, how will you handle real life?

    Current oil burners: MB GLK250 BlueTEC, John Deere X758
    New ride: MB GLS450 - most stately
    Gone but not forgotten: '87 F350 7.3, '93 C2500 6.5, '95 K2500 6.5, '06 K2500HD 6.6, '90 MB 350SDL, Kubota 7510

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    rural western Mo
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    Well, I have the boneyard starter in and no luck. I am getting a little fuel out of about half the injector lines but I have quit counting how many times I have tried to start this truck. I am getting convinced I need to put in a new IP. I have tried several PMD's, I have direct wired the lift pump, I have checked to make sure I have a good fuel flow out the bypass, I took the air cleaner out to make sure I had good air flow. I direct wired the glow plug controller. SO, unless someone has a suggestion, I need to either sell that truck as is or put in the IP. I am not particularly comfortable gaping a spark plug so putting in this IP would be a growing experience for sure. Anyone know anything about DIESEL POWER PRODUCTS? They have a rebuilt DS4 with PMD for $750.
    CCC
    _______

    1997 K1500 6.5 (S) 4X4
    1976 Pete 359
    1958 Dodge Powerwagon 4X4
    1986 Am Gen M925 5Ton 6x6

  9. #49
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    South Russell, Ohio
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    Do you have the PMD relocated? If so have you checked the connection on the side where it plugs into the IP harness? Check carefully for corrosion. I just went through something very similar. My connection was corroded and thus getting intermittent functioing (like a bad PMD), evemntaully a no start situation as well. Mine was so bad that it arced between a couple of the pins. Anyhow in my case a new harness coming off the IP and a new extention harness and I was back in business. From the outside that connection on my truck looked like it was the day I installed it. I hope that is what is wrong with yours because it is a relative easy and cheap overall fix.
    1996 K2500 Suburban
    Second owner, Former Fire Dept Vehicle
    "F" Engine, 4:10's looking for 3:73's
    D-TECH Remote mounted PMD, HO water pump
    1998 air box with K&N filter
    Fluidampr
    17" GMC Alloy Wheels with 265 70 R17's
    RACOR 490 fuel filter with heater and 2 Micron Filter

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    rural western Mo
    Posts
    94

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    No JFerg 65, I haven't done that but I certainly will! Thanks, I really can't afford an IP so I am willing to try about anything and that's a great idea. I'll keep ya posted. Oh, by the way, yes I do have the PMD relocated.
    CCC
    _______

    1997 K1500 6.5 (S) 4X4
    1976 Pete 359
    1958 Dodge Powerwagon 4X4
    1986 Am Gen M925 5Ton 6x6

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    CA
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    I understand the "I'm at the point I'll try anything" process. Been there, done that.

    If you do, in fact, have a weak pump, have you tried to "thicken" the fuel? (I should reread the thread, but don't have time right now....) It's easier in the winter (let it sit overnight), but not so easy during summer. I recommend using 2-cycle oil (TWC3, which is designed for water cooled engines/outboards), but a heavier oil may be easier and more economical. Assuming 25 gallons in the tank, add one gallon, or two if you want the most effective response, right now! I use the Supertech stuff from Walmart. You could use heavier motor oil, which is not recommended for normal use, but this is diagnostic, and wouldn't hurt. Disconnect the fuel line downstream from the lift pump, install a hose, route it to the fuel filler and pump for a while to mix it well (should be easy, since you've hot-wired the pump). If your pump is weak, the now thicker fuel should make it much easier for the pump to develop pressure. If you get NO improvement, either the pump is so worn it isn't going to cooperate, or it's broken and not distributing fuel properly. If it's "pumping" fuel to the injectors, the electric/electronic is working (at least well enough it should start unless it's physically unable).
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  12. #52
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    Nov 2010
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    rural western Mo
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    AWESOME Dmax, I will try that tomorrow! Thanks SO MUCH to all for the help. Sooner or later SOMETHING is going to work.
    CCC
    _______

    1997 K1500 6.5 (S) 4X4
    1976 Pete 359
    1958 Dodge Powerwagon 4X4
    1986 Am Gen M925 5Ton 6x6

  13. #53
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    Nov 2010
    Location
    rural western Mo
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    So Dmax, I will use a portable marine gas tank with three gallons of diesel and add one qt oil (which is the same ratio as 2 gallons oil to 25 gallons fuel if I have done my math right.) Connect it to the feed side of the lift pump, run fuel out the bypass valve on the DS4 till I get the new mixture then button it up and start cranking cycles again. Have I missed anything? And JFerg65, I will check for corrosion while I am there! Thanks guys, I feel better already! I will buy a pump if I have to, I just don't want to if it isn't absolutely neccessary.
    CCC
    _______

    1997 K1500 6.5 (S) 4X4
    1976 Pete 359
    1958 Dodge Powerwagon 4X4
    1986 Am Gen M925 5Ton 6x6

  14. #54
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    Apr 2001
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    You got the math right, and that's an excellent idea. A lot cheaper (at $9/gal for the oil), and more simpler/faster. You won't be able to run long, as the return will still go to the tank (which is a LOT more than actually burned), unless you get creative and route the return (not just the pump) to your portable tank....
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  15. #55
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    Nov 2010
    Location
    rural western Mo
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    Okay Dmax I can't try the test on the IP till this weekend. I was going to do it tonight but it is RAINING! Woo Hoo! It has been really hot here with many days in the triple digits and very dry so this is really good news. I don't mind waiting a couple of days for this. I gathered all the stuff today and I planned on doing it but the truck sits outside. I just didn't want you to think I wasn't taking your advice and running with it. I appreciate you, Greatwhite and all the others more than I can tell you. Keep your fingers crossed, I will keep all informed. Hopefully this is helping others as well.
    CCC
    _______

    1997 K1500 6.5 (S) 4X4
    1976 Pete 359
    1958 Dodge Powerwagon 4X4
    1986 Am Gen M925 5Ton 6x6

  16. #56
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    Apr 2001
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    No sweat. Problem is, if it works, is it really good news? Sometimes, just knowing has a value of its own.
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  17. #57
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    Nov 2010
    Location
    rural western Mo
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    Okay Dmax, now I am confused. In order to be able to see what was going on, I used clear poly tubing on all the applications for this test. I took a marine tank and mixed three gallons of diesel with a quart of 2cycle oil twc3. I then attached it to the feed side of the lift pump via poly tubing. I then disconnected the line from the bypass valve and attached a poly tube running it to a 2 liter bottle. I then started the lift pump and got nothing in the bypass tube. The poly fuel line filled up nicely with blue fuel. I cranked over the motor but got nothing in the bypass tube. I put a poly tube on the water separator and got a good flow and blue fuel. To eliminate issues, I then took the fuel shut off solenoid off (there was fuel pressue behind it and fuel sort of gushed out) and put in one I have removed the plug from. I then cranked the motor and still got nothing out of the bypass valve. I took the bypass valve off and put a nipple in it's place. I then energized the lift pump and got bubbles and some fuel. I got a lot of air out, probably from the fuel line change. Eventually, I ended up with fuel in the line from the bypass but it wasn't near the volume that comes out the water separator. When I crank the motor I get a slow flow in the bypass tube, about one half an inch per 30 seconds of cranking. Still no start.
    CCC
    _______

    1997 K1500 6.5 (S) 4X4
    1976 Pete 359
    1958 Dodge Powerwagon 4X4
    1986 Am Gen M925 5Ton 6x6

  18. #58
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    Nov 2010
    Location
    rural western Mo
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    Tried to start the truck today. I loosened the nuts on two injector lines to confirm I am getting fuel and it appears I am not. I am wondering if the fuel that was previously seeping out was coming from the bypass lines? Since I have them disconnected at this point there is no fuel going to them, the only fuel that would feed the injector set up is from the injector line. Looks like I am about out of reasons to think the pump is not dead huh?
    CCC
    _______

    1997 K1500 6.5 (S) 4X4
    1976 Pete 359
    1958 Dodge Powerwagon 4X4
    1986 Am Gen M925 5Ton 6x6

  19. #59
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    Apr 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccc View Post
    Okay Dmax, now I am confused. In order to be able to see what was going on, I used clear poly tubing on all the applications for this test. I took a marine tank and mixed three gallons of diesel with a quart of 2cycle oil twc3. I then attached it to the feed side of the lift pump via poly tubing. I then disconnected the line from the bypass valve and attached a poly tube running it to a 2 liter bottle. I then started the lift pump and got nothing in the bypass tube. The poly fuel line filled up nicely with blue fuel. I cranked over the motor but got nothing in the bypass tube. I put a poly tube on the water separator and got a good flow and blue fuel. To eliminate issues, I then took the fuel shut off solenoid off (there was fuel pressue behind it and fuel sort of gushed out) and put in one I have removed the plug from. I then cranked the motor and still got nothing out of the bypass valve. I took the bypass valve off and put a nipple in it's place. I then energized the lift pump and got bubbles and some fuel. I got a lot of air out, probably from the fuel line change. Eventually, I ended up with fuel in the line from the bypass but it wasn't near the volume that comes out the water separator. When I crank the motor I get a slow flow in the bypass tube, about one half an inch per 30 seconds of cranking. Still no start.
    Actually, your fuel flow "test" sounds normal. The flow out of the bypass (return) will not be full supply flow, and is contingent upon the rotary motion of the pump, and base or wear leakage. The volume of fuel will be somewhat linear with the RPM of the pump.

    Now, if you were in fact, having pressure fuel flow to the injectors, the disconnected return (bypass) line should be getting flow back from the injectors (and leaking out of the line you disconnected), and at least a similar rate as you've seen from the pump. As the injectors operate (via fuel pump pressure pulses), they will "leak" fuel back through the return lines. This is normal, and the volume will normally increase as the injectors become more worn. Once an injector becomes so worn it no longer pops at normal pump pressure, that's an indication of excess bypass to return, and the return line will show excessive flow volume.

    That said, if you aren't seeing any injector return line volume, even while just cranking, the injectors aren't popping, or trying to pop, and have no pressurized fuel supply.

    I think you may be correct, in that the fuel weeping during your "injector bleed" may be feedback from the pump bypass/return. This brings us back to square one, the IP isn't firing fuel to the injectors, for whatever reason. It isn't common for the pump to physically stop delivering fuel, as they normally degrade over time. Either something in the pump is physically broken, or the electronics isn't commanding fuel delivery. IE: Back to square one.
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  20. #60
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    Nov 2010
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    rural western Mo
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    "Back to square one" I think that might be good news actually! The original problem was a dead shut off valve. After the truck was towed in, I took it off and tested it and it failed. I replaced it and I haven't been able to get the truck to start. It seems I have a fuel delivery issue.Okay, I know my grounds are good, I have three pmds, the one that is on the pump and was working until this event and two older ones that I have kept as spares (I picked up off pumps at a bone yard.) Odds are one of them is good. I do have a spare ecm I could put in but there isn't any reason to think I need to is there? What about the ops? Can I bypass that some way to make certain it isn't that? Would it throw a code? I have a remote pmd harness on, Iwill take it off and run a continuity test on each wire of the harness to make certain there isn't a short there. What else can I do?
    CCC
    _______

    1997 K1500 6.5 (S) 4X4
    1976 Pete 359
    1958 Dodge Powerwagon 4X4
    1986 Am Gen M925 5Ton 6x6

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