The P0087 Saga Continues

[richp]

If I were faced with this P0087 problem, I would do as JK said... Add a lift pump, retune the ECM to accept a wider tolerance for an acceptable common-rail pressure differential, then keep driving it till injector replacement becomes unavoidable.

Hi,

Yeah, but that is a tough pill to swallow if there is even a modest chance a second fuel cooler, better management of the level of fuel in the tank, or other less costly options could have promise.

This is doubly hard for me. First, we buy these trucks because they are supposed to work long and hard. And I don't readily accept the proposition that 120,000 miles is acceptable life for such high cost components. Second, because to adopt the strategy suggested in the above paragraph, I'm resisting the considered advice of two guys whom I respect, and who know a lot more about this than I do.

Color me conflicted...

[More Power]

Rich,
I've received quite a few emails and phone calls where the truck owner expressed dismay or even anger over the possibility that the injectors needed to be replaced. It's never-ever a good time. Most believe the injectors should last for as long as they own the truck.

This bristling resistance to injector replacement happened a lot less often with 6.5L diesel owners, largely because the injectors were/are a tenth the cost. 6.5 injectors needed to be replaced when engine roughness, start-ability, fuel economy or performance said it was time, which usually wound up being in the 100-150K mile range.

Additional coolers, aux fuel tanks and other less costly attempts to solve the problem might help, but not likely long-term. A hot summer day, a heavy load and hot thin fuel are hard to avoid for some truck owners.

I know a guy (and you know him too) who simply traded his truck in for a newer model when faced with the same situation. That's one way to deal with it.

Another way to deal with it is to acquire an aftermarket engine warranty that covers the fuel injection system, once the factory warranty expires. This... could be the best way to deal with the specter of a breath-taking repair bill. Insurance coverage for the fuel injection system won't be cheap, but it'll be easier for most owners to deal with than spending a thick stack of $100 bills on injector replacement.

When it's all said and done, at the end of the day, and after the fat lady has sung, following JK's advice really is the best choice for those P0087 owners who are without an extended warranty.

[richp]

Hi Jim,

I know, I know.... But the Sticky sadly relates instances where neither John's fix nor new injectors were a cure. That's a pretty daunting prospect.

For sure, the days of me changing fifty dollar 6.2 injectors in my driveway are long gone.

[rapidoxidationman]

Question for the OP, and for others who have experienced this problem:
Do you regularly use a fuel additive at each fill-up or do you burn the fuel as it is dispensed from the filling station pump?

[richp]

Hi rapid,

I have faithfully used Power Service since day one, in every tank. Auxiliary fuel filtration almost from day one, with regular filter changes.

Right now I'm sort of looking for some old posts I vaguely recall about bad fuel caps and power codes. But in any case, today I was reduced to digging out my old -- but essentially new -- stock cap and replacing my locking cap.

Of course I will not be able to test any theory until I tow again on a long trip in warm weather.

I must look pathetic to John Kennedy (grin) But investing the combined cost of his lift pump and tune on a 123,000 mile truck gives me pause, particularly when scattered posts in the Sticky indicate that not every older truck with 0087 gets fixed by going that route (and scarily, or even with new injectors.)

[DieselDavy]

Rich,
I'll second Jim's advice to follow JK solution. Your dealer techs see a small subset of Trucks sold in your area. So they may have see a few that are having issues like you are seeing.
In JK's case. His business is like a lightning rod for problem trucks. He sees trucks from all over the country that seek him out to cure this same problem.
Looking at the cost of his suggested cure isn't that bad compared to an injector replacement or truck replacement. Call JK and enjoy life!
dave

[More Power]

I also have to get this in here.... When faced with the cost of new injectors some owners look online for cheap parts. I should post a montage of messages I've received some day from owners who bought a set of injectors on eBay, Craig's List or even Amazon, thinking they'd save a couple thou $ on costs....

When asked about the cheap stuff, I answer by saying that the cheap part sellers aren't Bosch reman centers or even authorized Bosch dealers. Many of the parts are super cheap overseas copies that fail soon after installation - if they even work at all. Then, what happens is the owner is out the cost of the cheap stuff, the labor to install them and the cheap part seller has to be held at gunpoint and forced to take them back. It's such an awful experience that some truck owners give up on their diesel pickup.

So, only buy your parts from dealers who have a reputation to defend. For most of us anywhere in the country, this means buying parts from your local Bosch reman/retail center - or vendors who advertise here. Only vendors who take care of people advertise here.

[richp]

Hi Jim,

Duly noted....

Just got off the phone with John Kennedy, setting up a trip to the north country.

[More Power]

To answer your question about whether a performance-oriented exhaust system could help lower exhaust temperatures, I actually performed an extensive test some years ago using a Duramax powered truck I owned to answer that question. Here are the results from that towing test (towing a 7,000-lb trailer on a 6% grade). As you can see, the exhaust temperature remained the same for each run, though there was a measurable improvement in performance.

Stock power w/stock exhaust: Boost 21 lbs, EGT 1275 degrees, speed 62-mph 4th gear
Stock power w/Magnaflow exhaust: Boost 21.5-lbs, EGT 1275 degrees, speed 64-mph, 4th gear

You can see the full exhaust system review here:
https://www.thedieselpage.com/reviews/magnaflowc.htm

[richp]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the link -- interesting info.

I've driven by the EGT and boost gauges since I started running turbos years ago. I always felt that the EGT in particular was a critical representation of what is going on in there, and that managing those temps conservatively is a good way to prolong the life of the engine.

[More Power]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the link -- interesting info.

I've driven by the EGT and boost gauges since I started running turbos years ago. I always felt that the EGT in particular was a critical representation of what is going on in there, and that managing those temps conservatively is a good way to prolong the life of the engine.

In that review you can see that adding performance surprisingly allowed for a lower EGT - sorta contrary to what logic might suggest.

[Kennedy]

I also have to get this in here.... When faced with the cost of new injectors some owners look online for cheap parts. I should post a montage of messages I've received some day from owners who bought a set of injectors on eBay, Craig's List or even Amazon, thinking they'd save a couple thou $ on costs....

When asked about the cheap stuff, I answer by saying that the cheap part sellers aren't Bosch reman centers or even authorized Bosch dealers. Many of the parts are super cheap overseas copies that fail soon after installation - if they even work at all. Then, what happens is the owner is out the cost of the cheap stuff, the labor to install them and the cheap part seller has to be held at gunpoint and forced to take them back. It's such an awful experience that some truck owners give up on their diesel pickup.

So, only buy your parts from dealers who have a reputation to defend. For most of us anywhere in the country, this means buying parts from your local Bosch reman/retail center - or vendors who advertise here. Only vendors who take care of people advertise here.

Add to the list Diesel Logic, Diesel Care, Injectors direct, Pensacola etc. These are common names that I hear when people call with issues on trucks with "new" injectors. Sad part is I don't know where they go, but I seldom if ever get an opportunity to sell these callers the good stuff.


The only source I trust is Bosch to do the actual reman these injectors. Even my performance source does not waver from this and uses only the real deal as foundation for any custom work. There is one man in a major shop in TX that I dealt with on injector projects back in the early days that has a reman program that I think I could trust, but it's just so much safer to stick with the real deal.

[Kennedy]

I just set up an LB7 owner with a set of SAC 45's to replace his original injectors at something like 280k. I have purchase history back in 2003 Mega filter and FPPF Total Power since new with lift pump soon to follow. When he sent his cores in I marked them specifically so that they could be examined for overall wear condition. I believe they finally gave in to the blue smoke seep common to the VCO nozzle.