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Thread: I bought an Optimizer NAVSTAR

  1. #1
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    Default I bought an Optimizer NAVSTAR

    So the cost to fully rebuild a pre 2001 6.5 locally is about $4,000-$6,000. I was thinking to myself... Heh, I already got $50,000 in my K5blazer, why not another $5800 for an Optimizer NAVSTAR? So I did it... I guess I’ll just sell the surplus of parts and motors I have and use that money to get caught back up on this new purchase. Smart move? I think so! I already made $1,200 in parts that I picked up from a member and am about to make another $2000+ on a 6.5 I am almost done refurbishing.

    I thought about a Cummins swap and had to also consider that cost, modifications and additional weight that is not good for Rock Crawling and off-road.

    So what water pump, coolant cross over, IP, intake, turbo and exhaust manifolds should I use on the Optimizer?


  2. #2
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    Would a Banks Sidewinder turbo kit be best for this Optimizer? GM5? GM8? Bolt on or spin on fan? HO water pump or OEM water pump? I guess I have some 6.5 Diesel Page Books to read lol!

  3. #3
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    What year Blazer ?????

    The hiflow water pump needs a dual Tstat xover
    The Banks turbo is a good unit.

    Make sure you don't have an interference with the injectors and the Banks manifold.

    Is the BANKS gear for a later 6.5 or a 6.2 ????

    Using a DB2 mechanical IP ?????

    The injector lines are different between the DB2 AND THE DS4
    Injectors for the DS4 pumps pop at a higher pressure.
    A DB2 will not hack the high pop on the injectors set up for a DS4

    Are you using a serp belt system????
    The later water pumps are all for the serp drive setups. CCW ROTATION
    (1) 1995 Suburban 2500 4x4
    (1) 1997 Astro
    (1) 2005 Suburban (Papa Smurf)
    THIS IS BOW TIE COUNTRY

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robyn View Post
    What year Blazer ?????

    The hiflow water pump needs a dual Tstat xover
    The Banks turbo is a good unit.

    Make sure you don't have an interference with the injectors and the Banks manifold.

    Is the BANKS gear for a later 6.5 or a 6.2 ????

    Using a DB2 mechanical IP ?????

    The injector lines are different between the DB2 AND THE DS4
    Injectors for the DS4 pumps pop at a higher pressure.
    A DB2 will not hack the high pop on the injectors set up for a DS4

    Are you using a serp belt system????
    The later water pumps are all for the serp drive setups. CCW ROTATION
    I am thinking about these accessories:

    6.5 upper and lower air intake
    6.5 Gm8 turbo
    6.5 HO water pump
    6.5 Dual Thermostat
    6.5 4911 Mechanical pump
    6.5 New 1993 injectors to match the pop pressure for the 4911 IP
    Dual Alternators
    Serpentine belt set
    Diamond Eye 4” exhaust
    Fluidamper


    Should I do the 9 blade bolt on fan or 9 blade spin on fan? The spin on fan is plastic and lighter.

  5. #5
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    Just for reference.....

    The injection pump does not have a "pop pressure". The operating pressure of the injection side of the system is determined solely by the injectors. The problem with using 6.5TD injectors with the 6.2L series of DB2 pumps is the pump's ability to sustain that pressure. A healthy pump will do it, but it wasn't designed to continue at that pressure. The 4911 pump is different. I was designed to sustain 6.5TD injector pressure, and does so in stride. The 4911 pump will handle all that the DS4 pump will, although it falls a little short of the DS4's capable volume. This is rarely an issue for anything close to streetable.
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DmaxMaverick View Post
    Just for reference.....

    The injection pump does not have a "pop pressure". The operating pressure of the injection side of the system is determined solely by the injectors. The problem with using 6.5TD injectors with the 6.2L series of DB2 pumps is the pump's ability to sustain that pressure. A healthy pump will do it, but it wasn't designed to continue at that pressure. The 4911 pump is different. I was designed to sustain 6.5TD injector pressure, and does so in stride. The 4911 pump will handle all that the DS4 pump will, although it falls a little short of the DS4's capable volume. This is rarely an issue for anything close to streetable.
    Well the motor will be shipped in about 2 weeks. Has anyone ever used the Quadstar Upper Plenum?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2INSANE View Post
    Well the motor will be shipped in about 2 weeks. Has anyone ever used the Quadstar Upper Plenum?
    Well I haven't, but it doesn't look like much of a upgrade, has anyone ever shown flow test's to show it does anything better... The Unique Diesel upper would be my choice..... and it will turn left or right...

    upper intake.jpg
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  8. #8
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    What Maverick said .....
    Have your injectors set to 1992 -1993 6.5 pop specs.

    MAKE SURE THE POP PRESSURES ARE ALL EQUAL AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE

    Differences in the pop pressure equates to a difference in cylinder to cylinder timing.

    Having all injectors spot on makes a very smooth running engine.....and reduces torsional loading that you do not want......

    Myself...I like to see the pop pressures about in the middle of the spec......Higher pressures puts more stress on the pump........
    Now this little ditty is just one of my quirks......but has served me well.

    The much higher pop of the DS4 does make for a bit better spray.....likely was an emission thing......
    The 4911 pump done up right is a great unit..
    Have fun.....
    (1) 1995 Suburban 2500 4x4
    (1) 1997 Astro
    (1) 2005 Suburban (Papa Smurf)
    THIS IS BOW TIE COUNTRY

  9. #9
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    So here’s info and prices for the benifit of other members.

    This Optimizer NAVSTAR is a long block. (Not Fully Dressed with accessories)

    Company info:

    Bostic Motors Inc (BMI)
    157 N Main St, Bostic, NC 28018
    +1 (828) 453-7779
    Jeff Aiello

    $5400 Optimizer NAVSTAR Longblock
    $429.80 Shipping to Montana
    $500 Core Charge (Will refund after inspection of core, they pay for core shipment!)

    $6,329.80 Total

    1 year unlimited mile warranty

    My cost out of pocket after selling motors and parts $0

    This company specializes in Only 6.5 and 6.2. They know their stuff. Jeff told me, like the P400, the Optimizer is going to be phased out in 8 months.

    Since I still have a lot of parts, I decided to buy their longblock. Their fully dressed Optimizer is...

    $9840
    +$1500 core
    +$425 shipping

    Total $11,765

    A lot has been improved. Here is link of more info...

    [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2007/06/the-optimizer-6500/[/URL]

    Bostic Motors claims they have never had any of their Optimizers Crack with over 100 Optimizers sold. I checked their reviews and it appears their claim is legit.




    It may not be fresh from the factory but their reman process is good! Practically a new motor if not better. Here’s more info:


    The pictured engine fits 92-2001 Chevy & GMC C/K Series trucks w/ GM 6.5L Turbo Diesel (Sidemount Turbo).
    This is a re-manufactured engine using Genuine AM General / GEP Optimizer™ / Navistar™castings..... the ones built after 2004 with the better castings.
    This engine will also fit all Non-Turbo applications, Pickup Truck, Van or the H-1 Hummer.
    This engine can also be built to service all Center-mount or Rear-Mounted Turbo applications, (H-1 Hummers , Vans & some RV's).
    For over 21 years now, we have been involved with the 6.2L and later the 6.5L engine exclusively.
    Check out our Feedback! People love our products and service!

    Some other companies are selling new block/head engines, but be careful, most are new block/heads using the old casting forms, no improvements - FROM CHINA! . Booooo! There is only a handful of others offering IMPROVED & UPDATED castings aside from AM General and General Motors themselves.

    The design improvements and re-engineering of the improved castings add durability and virtually eliminate the potential for cracking in both the block and heads.

    Here is What is New and Improved about our Engines:

    These Engines Are Built Using the 2004+ Optimizer™ / Navistar™ Improved Block & Head Castings.
    Our engines also include major improvements to the oiling systems, including our exclusive: High Volume & High Pressure Oil pumps.
    BLOCK & HEADS:
    The iron used in the new block utilizes molybdenum, a metal yielding a 20-25% increase in strength, without being brittle. The new block design also incorporates improved main bearing webs and caps. In addition, the head bolt holes in the block deck are strengthened, vastly improving head gasket durability.
    Additionally, changes of the water jacket design in the heads have helped address the 6.5's overheating problems. The original 6.5 & 6.2 cylinder heads produced by GM were prone to developing small cracks between the valves. The new redesigned heads have added chromium to the cast-iron to virtually eliminate these and other cracking issues.
    The Optimizer™ block and head system offers complete parts interchangeability & bolt hole alignment as your original block.
    OILING SYSTEM:
    This engine also gains improved durability & longevity with a High Volume / High Pressure oiling system.

    INTERNAL COMPONENTS:

    We use MAHLE Clevite branded internal parts on both our new and remanufactured offerings. These are top quality parts from a well known industry leader. AM General and GM both use/d MAHLE as the O.E.M. internals. Mahle Clevite has significantly improved both the Pistons and Connecting Rods since the time that the 6.5 was used by General Motors. The Connecting rods are more durable and the Pistons are stronger and lighter.
    With these important improvements, the BMI 6.5 is among the toughest 6.5L diesel engine available today.
    We have have been selling the 6.5L engine with new improved castings for more than 9 years now with great over-the road success.
    Now we can offer the Real Optimizer™ castings!

    Not one block or head crack issue to date. - Now that's what we mean by an improvement.

    Compare to others: Our longblocks come with already installed; Valve covers, Oil pan, Oil Pickup Tube, Timing Chain Cover, New Harmonic Balancer.
    Every one of our engines are hot-run in on the dyno after final assembly.
    During this time the camshsft is properly broken-in, the and the engine is monitored for any sign of oil or coolant leaks.
    All of our engines are dyno tested.
    This is why we do not offer short-block engines, Short-blocks can not be adequately tested on the dyno.
    Be assured with our Unlimited Mileage, one year warranty covering every engine we sell. You expect hard work from your diesel powered truck, and we'll guarantee it.
    We are proud of our long track record with the GM 6.5 Liter Turbo Diesel engine. We do not take shortcuts during the manufacturing process.
    Please state year make, model and 8th character of VIN code when ordering to be sure we build the correct engine for your truck.
    There is a Core Deposit that will be refunded when rebuildable core is received back. Any of your core's deficiencies can be pro-rated and may not necessarily mean complete forfeiture of core deposit.
    Let us know when the core is ready, and our freight company will pickup the core.
    We pay the return shipping for your core.
    Our domestic long-block core deposit is just $500, not $1000. like some other companies, however the $1000 core must be charged for overseas buyers.
    Shipping is by Truck freight and runs between $240-$450 depending on your location.
    ($240 in Eastcoast areas, $440 for parts of California, Points between vary accordingly) - often the freight costs shown on eBay are incorrect. (often too high)
    Call our internet sales department at [phone removed by eBay] prior to ordering to insure we order the correct engine for your specific application and to give you your exact total, including proper freight quote. We can discuss your engine questions and options over the phone more efficiently than email.
    We are: Bostic Motors Inc.
    Not just on the internet, we have a real physical location, and a phone number:
    157 North Main Street
    Bostic, NC 28018
    You can call us at [phone removed by eBay]
    Please don't call or E-mail with retrofit or gas to diesel conversion questions. Conversions are generally not worth the effort or cost and entail quite a bit more then someone with limited experience usually thinks.

  10. #10
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    I am getting ready for the Optimizer so I took the 6.5 upper and lower plenum to the machine shop and had them cleaned in a Jet pressure washer at 190 degrees. Cost $20. OOP cost $0







    I bought a brand new GM8 made in China turbo for $284. It had great reviews and the seller sold many of them. The cheap price is worth the risk. Out of pocket cost after selling parts and motors $0.



    Next I order from Quadstar a upper plenum and turbo oil drain kit. I have seen how restrictive the 6.5 upper plenum is after it was cut in 1/2. Also every 6.5 I had touched or seen always leaked from the turbo oil drain. Total cost for both shipped $380.27. My out of pocket cost after selling parts and motors $0.




  11. #11
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    More preparation for the Optimizer motor, I wire wheeled the gasket rtv off one of the spare 6.5 oil pans and took it into a welding shop to get a 1/8 NPT bung welded next to the oil drain so I can install my 1/8 NPT oil temperature sensor for my Phantom 2 gauge. $50 Then I took the oil pan to the machine shop to get jetted and cleaned up $20. I will do a fresh coat of black paint on it when I get more time. OOP cost $0






  12. #12
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    The new made in China Gm8 turbo arrived. Looks great! Even has new gaskets.










    What I find interesting is the gm Oem turbo downpipe flange is bent with a crease. I can see why egts tend to get higher on the GM model.




  13. #13
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    Sold more parts and ordered Autometer 2 1/6” Pyrometer and Boost gauge. They are the Phantom 2 to match the gauges on the dash. There is no room on the dash so I will mount these over driver head on the LMC truck Headliner. It’s going to be sweet!

    Where is the best place to drill the 1/2” NPT hole for the Pyro probe on the 6.5 Manifold?




  14. #14
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    Nice gage selection, but you overshot the boost gage. You need a 15 - 20 PSI max range for the 6.5. I think you'll find the resolution will be way off at 30, which is more than double the potential, and 3 - 4 times your operating range. 30 PSI is more in the rage of late model Diesels.

    Drill the bunghole for the pyro thermocouple in the collector manifold below the turbo, outward. It will sample temps from all cylinders there. Cold bit with NO lube or oil-type coolant (cast iron). Use a good anti-seize for the bushing, and don't overtighten it. If you will be installing it on an installed engine, drill/tap with the engine running at idle to clear the shavings (wear good eye/face protection!!!) An alternative thermocouple location is the downpipe or crossover (clamp-on type). They are easier to install, but less accurate and less immediate. Both would be ideal, being able to track turbo efficiency trends, but that ups the cost and complexity.
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DmaxMaverick View Post
    Nice gage selection, but you overshot the boost gage. You need a 15 - 20 PSI max range for the 6.5. I think you'll find the resolution will be way off at 30, which is more than double the potential, and 3 - 4 times your operating range. 30 PSI is more in the rage of late model Diesels.

    Drill the bunghole for the pyro thermocouple in the collector manifold below the turbo, outward. It will sample temps from all cylinders there. Cold bit with NO lube or oil-type coolant (cast iron). Use a good anti-seize for the bushing, and don't overtighten it. If you will be installing it on an installed engine, drill/tap with the engine running at idle to clear the shavings (wear good eye/face protection!!!) An alternative thermocouple location is the downpipe or crossover (clamp-on type). They are easier to install, but less accurate and less immediate. Both would be ideal, being able to track turbo efficiency trends, but that ups the cost and complexity.
    The lowest boost gauge Autometer offers in the Phantom 2 series is 30psi. There are other series that have the 0-20 range but I would like to have all matching gauges.









    On the LMC truck headliner there is a uncut gauge/shelf on the top driver side where the sun visor is located I plan on putting the Boost and Pyro gauge.





    The center front of the headliner would be a great spot for the gauges but I already cut it for a CB radio that has a 40 watt Conex 1969 Final in it :-D



    I’m surprised photobucket still has thes old ass pictures lol!


  16. #16
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    Your choice. You're locating the gages away from your IP so, in my opinion, a different style wouldn't clash. It may actually compliment. Form follows function, in my belief. Yours may vary.
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  17. #17
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    Cool headliner! I was really tempted to purchase one of those when I still had my 81 C20 (which I now regret selling).

    Casey
    1995 K1500 Tahoe 2 door, 6.5LTD, 4L80E, NP241, 3.42's, 285/75R16 BFG K02's; 1997 506 block; Kennedy OPS harness, gauges, Quick Heat plugs, and TD-Max chip; Dtech FSD on FSD Cooler; vacuum pump deleted, HX35 turbo, Turbo Master, 3.5" Kennedy exhaust, F code intake; dual t/stats, HO water pump, Champion radiator; Racor fuel filter

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DmaxMaverick View Post
    Your choice. You're locating the gages away from your IP so, in my opinion, a different style wouldn't clash. It may actually compliment. Form follows function, in my belief. Yours may vary.
    So you think the 0-30 psi boost gauge will not be accurate with the readings?

    Quote Originally Posted by arveetek View Post
    Cool headliner! I was really tempted to purchase one of those when I still had my 81 C20 (which I now regret selling).

    Casey
    Thanks! I like it a lot! But I fear that in a few years I will need to sell it so I can do a full cage in the cab. Lol!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2INSANE View Post
    So you think the 0-30 psi boost gauge will not be accurate with the readings?
    Not that it won't be accurate, but that the resolution makes it difficult to view it accurately. At most, you may be using only about half of the range, which handicaps the resolution. Add to that, it will be more difficult at the location you are installing it. I have the same size boost and pyro gages in my 2001 installed about where you are installing yours, although more centered, and it is not a natural viewing location. They are mounted in a billet aluminum angled mount (Kennedy Diesel item) that fits the OEM knock-out where the older style DIC would be, if it had that. If you are far-sighted with bi/trifocal glasses (I am), or are very near-sighted and wear glasses or contacts, it is more of a challenge. Be sure to angle the gages toward your regular seated position to minimize glare and obstruction by the gage bezel edge, and a deeper bezel worsens it (one of those things you don't notice, until you do, and it gets annoying). Pillar-type mounts are about the best for gage viewing, but I don't like them. Many folks like them, though. With your setup, all your smaller gages being the same, perhaps think about moving less important analogs to the overhead? Your IP is about as sharp looking as I've seen, BTW.
    1985 Blazer 6.2
    2001 GMC 2500HD D/A
    dmaxmaverick@thedieselpage.com

  20. #20
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    Nice build,.. i personally would have put on a better turbo than the GM8,...
    Truck looks great.

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