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Thread: Can I hone just 1 cylinder?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robyn View Post
    Get the other head off just to be sure there is not any junk lurking.

    The engine is out....Checking the other side is easy now....Doing this over again is a PITA.
    A little chunk of crap rattling around may not have caused issues...BUT IT COULD....
    Just a PLAY IT SAFE THING....
    Poor engine has had a thrashing already....Let's save it....

    No need to wash things..Just roll the engine over and as each piston drops down about an inch or so....wipe the cylinder wall with a WD40 dampened rag....Just to catch anything.

    Just enough WD to make the rag sort of sticky....

    Do that after you clean the decks off.....

    Before honing cram some rags down in the hole with the crank throw DOWN...

    Just protect the journal is all.

    After you are done....wipe the cylinder down with a rag dampened with brakleen....

    Clean the cylinder walls well....Lube lightly before stuffing the Piston/Rod assembly back in.

    Make sure the decks are spotless clean and wipe with clean rag and brakleen to leave a dry oil free surface....just before you drop the heads/gaskets on....

    With the engine on a stand you can roll it over with the bad hole angled down at a 45 degree....Still cover the rod journal...
    Ok. The other head is off. Valves look shut. All lower piston skirts have scratches.


    After getting everyone’s amazing info and thinking on things, I come to the conclusion that the grove in the cylinder 2 is not the main reason for the low compression. I believe that the #2 ring that was wedged in the piston grove was not touching the cylinder wall because of all the sand/glow plug material causing the ring to stick. I agree it can be saved!

    My plan is to remove all the pistons and rings, clean all the pistons, use 400 grit sand paper to smooth the piston walls a little, install new rings, very light flex hone on all cylinders while coving the crank tighter then a burrito, remove the lifters, clean them and soak them in fresh oil, disassemble the heads, check for damage and run them threw the jet, install thicker head gaskets, Arp head studs, flowkooler 130 gpm water pump, serpentine set, new harmonic balancer, 9 blade fan, dual thermostat if it fits without modifications, ESS Oil pump drive for tach, g60 plugs, new oil pan, Hx35w, quadstar oil drain, wet test run it, check compression numbers again, flush coolant 2 times with water and 2 oil flushes.

    I think it will be an amazing motor for the customer!

    What do yal think?

  2. #22
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    I was thinking about this last night (Sleeping on it ya know)
    The RTV in the pan is no biggy...I have seen this before.....Some builders go gung ho on the RTV.

    The oil filter Should handle all the crap.

    Post a good close up pic of the rod bearing you have out please....

    Also while the top is off....Inspect ALL of the lifters (Rollers) and look at the cam lobes for any signs of damage....

    This may seem like a bit over the top....But it takes very little time to do now and if other things are discovered....They can be dealt with easily......

    This is your project....You make the last and final call as to how far you go...

    I think that removing all the pistons is a bit much.....If the cylinders are clean with no damage (Head off the other side) Good to go.

    Any damage would show in the compression numbers.

    Might want to pull the oil pump apart and check for damage to the gears and housing.....If good...wash up, oil it and reassemble.

    Again....your call.....

    That one cylinder is never going to be stellar without boring....At .040" OS now the next shot is .060" Not my first choice on a 6.5

    I do think that as low as the score is in the bore that the "Smoothemup" and fresh rings should get the compression back up to a reasonable number.....Over time, barring any other issues the score will fill with carbon and this will likely help a bit.....

    Doing a good job is always job #1...but one can get carried away....

    If the bearings and crank do not show damage from crap getting into the oil....This beast should be fine....
    (1) 1995 Suburban 2500 4x4
    (1) 1997 Astro
    (1) 2007 Chevy Avalanche
    THIS IS BOW TIE COUNTRY

  3. #23
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    Just Curios ....What is the number on the glow plugs that were in the engine ???
    (1) 1995 Suburban 2500 4x4
    (1) 1997 Astro
    (1) 2007 Chevy Avalanche
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2INSANE View Post
    I agree it’s risky. Customer has been contacted and we are deciding what steps to take next.
    I meant the one block i had with the wide groove was toast,it also had 4 web cracks plus a crack from a head bolt hole to the outside of the block.
    The block you are working on i feel is a good candidate for repair,the steps Robyn layed out are pretty much what i would do.
    90 Chev 3500 c/c 4x4,6.2na,400 auto,4:10 gears.DSG Timing gears,main girdle, isspro tach, pyro,boost,oil and trany temp.Dual Tstats, High volume peninsular pump,on shelf, Custom turbo and intercooler 85%complete. Change of plans for the dually, it's going to get a Cummins. Both trucks are Blue 90 4x4 crews

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2INSANE View Post
    Here’s another Newb lower end question.

    Would the other 7 cylinders benifit if I turn the block upside down and spray brakekleen between the pistons and the cylinder walls to clean out any sand, dirt, build up, etc that could be lingering on top of the top ring or is that a bad idea?

    Also would it be safer to hone the bad cylinder with the motor upside down?

    What i did before i started putting pieces back together...
    Because when i took it apart i found the block crack and just placed it to the side while i explored other option.
    Once i decided to use the original bottom end and it was back on the stand,i used a parts washer gun that sucks up your cleaning fluid with air,i rinsed the bottom end out with diesel the night before i started reassembly.I left it on the stand right side up to drip dry for the night.
    90 Chev 3500 c/c 4x4,6.2na,400 auto,4:10 gears.DSG Timing gears,main girdle, isspro tach, pyro,boost,oil and trany temp.Dual Tstats, High volume peninsular pump,on shelf, Custom turbo and intercooler 85%complete. Change of plans for the dually, it's going to get a Cummins. Both trucks are Blue 90 4x4 crews

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robyn View Post
    Just Curios ....What is the number on the glow plugs that were in the engine ???
    I jumped in the garbage trailer just for you Robyn!

    Some weird plug I’ve never seen before. Must be a Military thing…

    908 or 806 on top of the plug can’t tell

    Bottom of plug
    19207-12338771
    MFR-3HCM3

    google says they are 24v plugs.

    When I did the test run and compression test, I used a good set of Used G60’s. Not these crap plugs.



    Pics of the worst 2.





    Quote Originally Posted by Yukon6.2 View Post
    What i did before i started putting pieces back together...
    Because when i took it apart i found the block crack and just placed it to the side while i explored other option.
    Once i decided to use the original bottom end and it was back on the stand,i used a parts washer gun that sucks up your cleaning fluid with air,i rinsed the bottom end out with diesel the night before i started reassembly.I left it on the stand right side up to drip dry for the night.
    Hmm, that’s a good idea too! Thanks!

  7. #27
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    Also with the carbon cleaned off the piston top. Here’s the stamped piston info. Definitely .40 over.


  8. #28
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    YUP...I AGREE 100%

    Just a little note.

    Back in about 1986 I did a "Fix' on a 1982 6.2 engine that had sucked a glow plug....
    The rig had low miles....LIKE 50K K5 BLAZER

    The rig belongs to a local fella ....He did not want to spend the huge $$$ that the GM house quoted him for a GOODWRENCH reman.

    This thing was making real bad noises.....
    The cylinder made yours look really good....

    Piston was a mess.....JUNK
    I scared up a standard size slug from a buddy who had scattered a 6.2 in his Blazer.....

    We honed the hole a bit...stuffed the BETTER piston in with the rings that were on it.....

    Said a prayer and buttoned it up..

    Ran pretty good.....Never did check the compression....Ran on all 8 and idled smooth.

    After getting involved with your thread...I decided to see if these folks were still around.

    The guy gave the rig to his son in the late 90's and that rig is now in the hands of one of the grand kids......


    Yup....Oldest grand kid is running it....Engine has not been touched since I worked on it.

    The Kid loves that truck.......

    So..... a lot of sin can be dealt with using some shade tree tech and get good results....
    Yesssss...IT was a RED BLOCK....
    (1) 1995 Suburban 2500 4x4
    (1) 1997 Astro
    (1) 2007 Chevy Avalanche
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robyn View Post
    YUP...I AGREE 100%

    Just a little note.

    Back in about 1986 I did a "Fix' on a 1982 6.2 engine that had sucked a glow plug....
    The rig had low miles....LIKE 50K K5 BLAZER

    The rig belongs to a local fella ....He did not want to spend the huge $$$ that the GM house quoted him for a GOODWRENCH reman.

    This thing was making real bad noises.....
    The cylinder made yours look really good....

    Piston was a mess.....JUNK
    I scared up a standard size slug from a buddy who had scattered a 6.2 in his Blazer.....

    We honed the hole a bit...stuffed the BETTER piston in with the rings that were on it.....

    Said a prayer and buttoned it up..

    Ran pretty good.....Never did check the compression....Ran on all 8 and idled smooth.

    After getting involved with your thread...I decided to see if these folks were still around.

    The guy gave the rig to his son in the late 90's and that rig is now in the hands of one of the grand kids......


    Yup....Oldest grand kid is running it....Engine has not been touched since I worked on it.

    The Kid loves that truck.......

    So..... a lot of sin can be dealt with using some shade tree tech and get good results....
    Yesssss...IT was a RED BLOCK....
    That’s such a cool story and the good Lord provided! After I am done with this build, I will continue with the Redblock research.

    should I use assembly lube for the piston bearings/rod bearings?

    What Hone material should I use? Apparently there are several types of material Flex Hones.

  10. #30
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    OK GRASSHOPPER

    A light coating of engine oil on the cylinder wall is fine.
    Lube the piston and rings with the same engine oil.
    BEST LUBE FOR BEARINGS.....Lubriplate 105 White grease.

    This stuff stays in the bearings and does not run out even if you leave the engine sitting for months....
    Priming the engine oil system is always preferred ....Chop the top off an old 6.2 vacuum pump that goes in the rear of the engine.

    Keep the shaft long and weld on a nut to crank it.....Grind off the gear teeth smooth so it will spin freely....

    This allows the oil passage that runs around the groove in the old vacuum pump unit just above the gear to send the oil to where it needs to go.....

    You can crank this with an electric drill or a speed handle and primer the complete engine with oil..

    I like to prime just before I button the valve covers on.....This lets you see that all the rockers are getting oil (All lifters are passing oil)

    Be sure to connect a bypass hose to the oil cooler ports to let the oil flow as it will in the rig.

    Never ever plug off the ports.....

    This technique is pretty much standard on all engines that drive the oil pump off the camshaft.... There are primers made for common engines like SBC/BBC and so on.

    The 6.2/6.5 is not common....gotta make your own......THE SHORT PUMP DRIVES ARE NOT A GOOD CHOICE....TOO SHORT...USE AN OLD VACUUM PUMP TYPE
    (1) 1995 Suburban 2500 4x4
    (1) 1997 Astro
    (1) 2007 Chevy Avalanche
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robyn View Post
    OK GRASSHOPPER

    A light coating of engine oil on the cylinder wall is fine.
    Lube the piston and rings with the same engine oil.
    BEST LUBE FOR BEARINGS.....Lubriplate 105 White grease.

    This stuff stays in the bearings and does not run out even if you leave the engine sitting for months....
    Priming the engine oil system is always preferred ....Chop the top off an old 6.2 vacuum pump that goes in the rear of the engine.

    Keep the shaft long and weld on a nut to crank it.....Grind off the gear teeth smooth so it will spin freely....

    This allows the oil passage that runs around the groove in the old vacuum pump unit just above the gear to send the oil to where it needs to go.....

    You can crank this with an electric drill or a speed handle and primer the complete engine with oil..

    I like to prime just before I button the valve covers on.....This lets you see that all the rockers are getting oil (All lifters are passing oil)

    Be sure to connect a bypass hose to the oil cooler ports to let the oil flow as it will in the rig.

    Never ever plug off the ports.....

    This technique is pretty much standard on all engines that drive the oil pump off the camshaft.... There are primers made for common engines like SBC/BBC and so on.

    The 6.2/6.5 is not common....gotta make your own......THE SHORT PUMP DRIVES ARE NOT A GOOD CHOICE....TOO SHORT...USE AN OLD VACUUM PUMP TYPE
    Ok. Thanks for the advice!

    Today, I got the lifters out, cleaned with brakekleen and now soaking in fresh oil.

    Oil pan area mostly cleaned up. Will clean more after honing.

    All pistons out, disassembled, sanded with 400 grit lightly with diesel fuel, cleaned in parts cleaner and kitchen sink with soap and water. Assembled and lubed. WD-40 on the rod to prevent rust while waiting for parts and tools.

    Piston 5 had glow plug material jammed in piston. It’s out and looks good now.

    Piston 8 had glow plug material jammed in the piston pin grove preventing it from coming out smooth. It’s out and installed smoothly.

    I’ll get the crank out tomorrow and clean the timing cover deck on the motor.


    Should I put Lubriplate 105 White grease on the piston pins?

    Is there anything special about removing and installing the crank? Same White grease on the crank bearings as well?
    Last edited by 2INSANE; 06-25-2022 at 20:56.

  12. #32
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    Oil is fine on the piston pins.

    105 grease on all of the crank bearings....

    Make sure you keep all the bearings in the matching sets they were in and the location they were in....
    Then you have no worries on the reassembly.....
    (1) 1995 Suburban 2500 4x4
    (1) 1997 Astro
    (1) 2007 Chevy Avalanche
    THIS IS BOW TIE COUNTRY

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robyn View Post
    Oil is fine on the piston pins.

    105 grease on all of the crank bearings....

    Make sure you keep all the bearings in the matching sets they were in and the location they were in....
    Then you have no worries on the reassembly.....
    Ok thanks!

    So I have installed a few Kennedy main girdles in the past but never a full main stud kit. The customer asked me what was stronger between the 2 and told him I had no idea.

    There has been a very small handful of reports on Optimizers webs cracking and I would like to minimize that risk for the customer. I think chamfering the web holes and filing sharp edges is a great start as learned from you Robyn :-)

    What would be better?

    Girdle or full main stud kit or both?

  14. #34
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    Pick one......The only thing I have done is the LOCK N STITCH INSERTS
    (1) 1995 Suburban 2500 4x4
    (1) 1997 Astro
    (1) 2007 Chevy Avalanche
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robyn View Post
    ...clip...I like to prime just before I button the valve covers on.....This lets you see that all the rockers are getting oil (All lifters are passing oil)...
    When I pre-oiled the 6.5 in Sarah's Blazer, I left the valve covers off to check for oil at the rockers... This was the first 6.5 I'd pre-oiled, so I had no prior knowledge of what was normal... Just for background, all of the pushrods had been cleaned with brake cleaner inside/outside, checked for straightness and then oriented correctly before installation. Then the valve train was assembled. I had used chassis lube on the pushrod ends, ends of the valve stems and rocker pivots, and motor oil on the lifters as they were installed. Then, I squirted more motor oil on the rockers and valve stems (stem seal areas).

    After having run the oil pump drive for quite a bit during the pre-oil stage (with the valve covers off) I never did see oil at any of the rockers, even though the engine had been under ~35 psi of oil pressure all during the pre-oil stage. I puzzled over this for some time, a little concerned at first... There was plenty of oil/pressure at the turbo oil feed line. That line was capped off once oil flow was verified, so I could continue priming the oil system - thinking I could get oil through the pushrods and spill onto the rockers. Didn't happen.

    I think the lifters need to be in operation - in a rotating engine for oil to be pumped through the pushrods. Didn't think it was possible for all 16 lifters/pushrods to be a problem... so I considered what I saw to be normal.

    The engine now has about 900 miles on it, mostly at 60-70 mph. So far so good...

    On edit... GM's recommended maximum cylinder overbore is 0.030", but we all know pistons are available in larger sizes. Personally, if the decision is made to fix that deep scratch, I'd consider having a sleeve installed in that cylinder that is bored to match the piston you already have. If nothing else, this saves the cost of new pistons and rings. This repair procedure was done for the 6.5 in Sarah's Blazer... due to the melted piston and scored cylinder problem. All this happened before I became involved with the Blazer. I don't know if that cylinder could have been cleaned up with a .030/.040 overbore, or if it required more. The Blazer came with a "new takeout" set of eight standard pistons/rings, which is what I used. If I remember correctly, the pistons came from a guy who had swapped the stock pistons for 18:1 pistons in a new/reman engine he was working on. So, this meant he could sell the practically new standard pistons to recoup some of the cost of upgrading. All of the Blazer's 6.5 bores and ringed pistons were mic'ed to produce the best fit - all were well within factory clearance specs.

    This is the second engine I've been involved with that had a cast iron sleeve installed. The first engine was in our 6.5TD Power Project truck, which accumulated 300K miles before being sold. Based on these two examples, I don't see a problem with properly installed sleeves. The engine shop in Hamilton MT installed the Blazer sleeve. I'm not necessarily advocating for sleeves, just suggesting options.
    Last edited by More Power; 06-28-2022 at 10:47. Reason: add

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by More Power View Post
    When I pre-oiled the 6.5 in Sarah's Blazer, I left the valve covers off to check for oil at the rockers... This was the first 6.5 I'd pre-oiled, so I had no prior knowledge of what was normal... Just for background, all of the pushrods had been cleaned with brake cleaner inside/outside, checked for straightness and then oriented correctly before installation. Then the valve train was assembled. I had used chassis lube on the pushrod ends, ends of the valve stems and rocker pivots, and motor oil on the lifters as they were installed. Then, I squirted more motor oil on the rockers and valve stems (stem seal areas).

    After having run the oil pump drive for quite a bit during the pre-oil stage (with the valve covers off) I never did see oil at any of the rockers, even though the engine had been under ~35 psi of oil pressure all during the pre-oil stage. I puzzled over this for some time, a little concerned at first... There was plenty of oil/pressure at the turbo oil feed line. That line was capped off once oil flow was verified, so I could continue priming the oil system - thinking I could get oil through the pushrods and spill onto the rockers. Didn't happen.

    I think the lifters need to be in operation - in a rotating engine for oil to be pumped through the pushrods. Didn't think it was possible for all 16 lifters/pushrods to be a problem... so I considered what I saw to be normal.

    The engine now has about 900 miles on it, mostly at 60-70 mph. So far so good...

    On edit... GM's recommended maximum cylinder overbore is 0.030", but we all know pistons are available in larger sizes. Personally, if the decision is made to fix that deep scratch, I'd consider having a sleeve installed in that cylinder that is bored to match the piston you already have. If nothing else, this saves the cost of new pistons and rings. This repair procedure was done for the 6.5 in Sarah's Blazer... due to the melted piston and scored cylinder problem. All this happened before I became involved with the Blazer. I don't know if that cylinder could have been cleaned up with a .030/.040 overbore, or if it required more. The Blazer came with a "new takeout" set of eight standard pistons/rings, which is what I used. If I remember correctly, the pistons came from a guy who had swapped the stock pistons for 18:1 pistons in a new/reman engine he was working on. So, this meant he could sell the practically new standard pistons to recoup some of the cost of upgrading. All of the Blazer's 6.5 bores and ringed pistons were mic'ed to produce the best fit - all were well within factory clearance specs.

    This is the second engine I've been involved with that had a cast iron sleeve installed. The first engine was in our 6.5TD Power Project truck, which accumulated 300K miles before being sold. Based on these two examples, I don't see a problem with properly installed sleeves. The engine shop in Hamilton MT installed the Blazer sleeve. I'm not necessarily advocating for sleeves, just suggesting options.
    Sweet! That is great to know! Thank you sir! Are there any specs in those awesome books I bought from you? I have not read threw them all yet.

    Would the 1999 6.5 209 page service manual be ok to use for the 2003 NAVSTAR?

  17. #37
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    I think the 6.5TD Volume III has specs on pistons, rings, and bearing clearances.

    Without looking at the "1999 Service Manual", I'd say the odds are good that the information would be relevant to the 2003 engine.

    BTW - in conversing with Robyn, I learned that the way I spun the engine's oil pump may have reduced the oil pressure to the lifter oil galleys. Robyn suggested that the complete oil pump drive assembly should be used when spinning the oil pump, instead of just a hex socket and extension to turn the oil pump drive shaft. Seems that should allow for more oil pressure seen by the lifters, which may have allowed oil to migrate up the pushrods. Robyn had modified an oil pump drive to allow it to be spun externally (removed the cam gear on the oil pump drive and opened the top of the oil pump drive to allow it to be driven by a drill or...). I'd like to see all this in operation sometime... I'm just curious.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by More Power View Post
    I think the 6.5TD Volume III has specs on pistons, rings, and bearing clearances.

    Without looking at the "1999 Service Manual", I'd say the odds are good that the information would be relevant to the 2003 engine.

    BTW - in conversing with Robyn, I learned that the way I spun the engine's oil pump may have reduced the oil pressure to the lifter oil galleys. Robyn suggested that the complete oil pump drive assembly should be used when spinning the oil pump, instead of just a hex socket and extension to turn the oil pump drive shaft. Seems that should allow for more oil pressure seen by the lifters, which may have allowed oil to migrate up the pushrods. Robyn had modified an oil pump drive to allow it to be spun externally (removed the cam gear on the oil pump drive and opened the top of the oil pump drive to allow it to be driven by a drill or...). I'd like to see all this in operation sometime... I'm just curious.
    Yeah I think Casey made one on his build. Some great info there.

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