Oil Analysis

[Paintdude]

First change at 1000 miles, oil and filter, then second change at 3000 miles..This was a sample from the second change..I will change it at 5000 or 6000 and check it again to see what the results are..

this truck just runs better and better.. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Idle_Chatter]

Well, I "captured" some oil in a clean bottle from my 30,010 change (6,950 on the oil)on August 18th and finally shipped it off to AVLube on Sept. 13th. Got my emailed results tonight: Wear->Iron-12, Lead-19, Copper-13, Aluminum-2. Contaminants-> Silicon-12, Boron-1, Sodium-6, Potassium-3. Soot-<0.1, Oxidation-11.0, Nitration-5.00. Glycol-0, Water-<0.1, Fuel-A (?) Report says wear and contaminants normal, continue normal PM and resample at normal interval. Good news as I'm on a 7,500 mile change routine and things look good. They did bust me on my additives, though: "Some additive metals differ from our baseline sample for this fluid which could indicate contamination with another oil, additive package change or depletion." Two indicated high, Calcium-3135 and Zinc-2051. I've been adding OptiLube for some time and this must be it. Great peace of mind for $19!

[deerhunter7]

Why the additive? What does this additive do or add that a good oil doesn't . The few independent
tests that Iv'e ever seen . Not one additive made any diffrence on wear or sludge and varnish build
up. I don't care what you use ,your truck and money. I never heard of this one. Mostly wondering
what their speal is and special ingredient..

[Idle_Chatter]

Well, deerhunter, I actually brought a bottle of it back from the 2001 Diesel Rendezvous and started using it in my 99 6.5TD Tahoe. They advertised here on TDP for a while. It's basically an oil additive that appears to be based in a 30 or 40 weight oil. The directed dosage is 1.5 ounces per quart initially and then 1 ounce per quart thereafter. I've been using it in the Dmax since day one. Looks like it adds Calcium and Zinc, huh? Those were the only two additives out of spec, Phosphorus scored normal at 1676, Magnesium at 16 and Molybdenum at 0. I thought that OptiLube seemed credible because they made no "miracle" claims or hype and were just sold and advertised as an oil additive and enhancer. I'm comfortable with that, and it looks to be complementing my Rotella-T. The anaylsis report states that my addpack doesn't match Rotella-T baseline (it's actually more in Calcium and Zinc) and only stated that there was "something else" there, not "something bad." Sounds like it's doing what it's supposed to do! My full analysis result is available (an Adobe *.pdf) in my Yahoo briefcase, the EXCEL SPREADS link in my signature.

[thechevyhdman]

Here it is its done.
Ac Delco Oil Filter Used
Last oil change 14329, K&N Cleaned
mileage 21853
mileage between oil change 7524-0
total hrs on vehicle 962.2
Oil Used Citgo Citguard 500 15w40
Meaurement in PPM
Copper 8
Iron 18
Chrome 1
Lead 0
Aluminum 1
Silicon 15
Molybendium 81
Sodium 4
Calcium 2353
Tin 0
Potassium 0
Magnesium 259
Zinc 943
Water Neg.
Fuel Neg.
Antifreeze Neg.
Soot 14% 100 % is Max
Oxidation 8% In percent of allowable
Nitration No response
Sulfur Products 6 In percent of allowable
Viscosity 13.1

Elevated Silicon Levels... Check Air Intake/Anti Foam additives in new oil.
More Samples Needed To Show Trend.
PS before anyone jumps me on High Silicon due to K&N use.. Dont forget I unknowingly used 3/4 of aeresol spray(Im used to the hand spray) Have another SOS test will be done next 7500 miles.

[LanduytG]

thechevyhdman
Other than silicon the numbers look good except for soot at 14%. I wonder what the real number is for 100%? Judging by some of the other numbers I would say that it is at 14% of some magical number, you should see what that number is. Normally if soot gets above 3% of the total they recommend changing oil. What lab did the analysis?
Greg

[thechevyhdman]

Greg.. Soot Indication of lugging over fueling air inlet restriction filter plugging or extended engine idling. Reported in terms of percent allowable 100% is the maximum normally allowable.
Caterpillars H.O Penn Lab did it for me for 13 dollars and they gave me one for free when I dropped off my sample. They told me that I shouldnt get my oil from the drain in the pan as it can sway and give false negative results.. I wasnt up for buying the pump to get it done through the dipstick

[Idle_Chatter]

"Don't get the oil from the drain - use a hose through the dipstick" (?!) Excuse the puzzled look, ChevyHDman, but the drain and the dipstick tube are the same oil out of the pan. I think what they wanted to say was not to use the first rush out of the bottom of the pan where stuff could have collected. I opened up the fumoto and let a good quart or so run out, then I rinsed out the bottle a couple of times in the continuing full-flow run before grabbing the sample. I guess this could be a problem if you're not sampling at an oil change, though!

[Diverguy]

Hey thechevyhdman;
I get my SOS analysis done by Finning (Cat Canada) and I seem to be getting some extra element analysis that you didn't. I compared my recent test to yours and in addition to what you listed I also get tests for Nickel, Silver, Boron and Barium. Go figure...

[NickLeinonen]

hmm... there is a cat SOS oil lab right near my work place [at the croman facility of toromont cat] i wonder if i could get them to do my analisis. i can get oil sample bottles from work for free i think.... [hmm, the wheels are begining to turn in my head... ]

[thechevyhdman]

Idle Chatter on most recently produce caterpillar engines theres a drain or a valve that you get oil from for sampling that is protected from dirt etc.This valve has a dust cover to prevent any false NEGATIVE results. What I mean or meant to say is that taking a sample from your oil pan drain can sway results and be innacurate as there is a possiblity of dirt from the outside of the pan making its way into the bottle you are using as a tester. This would show more DIRT in your oil then there really is.They dont want any possibility of inaccuracy.. They would rather you take oil from up the dipstick as there will be no dirt etc to give bad results.

[Idle_Chatter]

Ahhhh, good precaution, chevyhdman. I sure have a lot of dirt and grit raining down on me and filling my nose, eyes and ears when I'm under my truck. I guess a "pinch" of that stuff in your oil sample bottle will sure drive up the silicon number!

[biker Wayne]

I'm considering changing over to synthetic motor oil, probably Mobil Delvac 1. I've got over 16K miles now. I intend on running 7500 miles between changes with the synthetic and many suggest to do oil analysis if running that long between changes. Here are some of my questions:
1) where do I get the oil analysis kits.
2) which company does a good job of interpreting the technical results and gives you meaningful info.
3) should I have an analysis done of my dino oil when I switch in 2000 miles.
4) doesn't the soot build up with 7500 miles between changes.
5) what about the acids that gassers supposedly accumulate if the oil isn't changed every 3 months. Do diesels build up acids after 3 or 4 months?
Sure am glad this forum exits to get good info.
Thanks in advance.

[Diverguy]

Your best bet is the SOS Fluid Analysis from Finning or Cat USA. You can register your pending samples on-line and view the results as well. If something is really awry you get a phone call. One of the members, George Morrison, also owns a lab which does oil analysis so you have a choice. Cheers

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Wayne, I've used a couple of analyzers and have liked them both:

Oil Analyzers http://www.oaitesting.com/
Who I am currently using. Cost $14 each and includes postage

Blackstone labs http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
Used them in the past, cost a little more but you have to provide postage.

7500 miles is a good interval to start, but as you get good results coming back you'll feel comfortable stretching the interval to 10k, maybe 20K like I do.

My soot has always been under 1% after 20,000 miles with Stage 2 Diesel Dynamics injectors.

Vaughn

[george morrison]

As previously posted, http://www.avlube.com/ has oil analysis kits available on line. AVlube is also a rotating banner on top. It is where I work and will then follow through with analysis of the analysis as the numbers can be meaningless without explanation.
George Morrison, STLE CLS

[Paintdude]

lead 5
Copper 27
Iron 13
Chromium 0
Tin 4
Silicon 14
Aluminum 2

Soot .8
Oxidation .1
Nitration .0
ZDDP Depletion .0
Water .3
Fuel .0
Antifreeze .1

Archer Oil Dino 15w40 with just over 5000 miles on truck..Now I will run the 5000 change intervals..

This test was with Rotella-Dino 15w40...2500 miles on truck..2000 miles on oil, I did first change at 500 miles..


My silicon was 25 and I went from the K and N back to the Stock paper filter..
Copper was 53

Lead was 11
Soot was 2.6
Oxidation was 8.8
ZDDP depletion was 16.1

[Kennedy]

While I am strongly against the gauze type of air filter, the drop in silicon is likely attributed to removal of assembly dirt by oil filtration and just plain process of elimination when you dump the oil. It seems that unless you are in pretty gnarly conditions like pulling air through the fender, the silicon levels aren't through the roof with a K&N. NOW, that doesn't mean that the big stuff isn't there as the spectro analysis doesn't pick up on this stuff. It also could be that since the Dmax has very little blowby, most of the dirt ingested never reaches the oil.

FWIW, My truck had the Amsoil filter from day 1 and had high silicon (and copper) levels that progressively dropped

[thechevyhdman]

I also ran an oil analysis on oil that had 7500 miles on it. However I DO run a K&N its not doing too bad from your results I had 15 ppm of silicon. Not too bad from stock considering the mileage I had on the oil. Next oil change will be my tell tale of the "quality" of K&N filters As I dont agree with all the "guaze Q-TIP bashing this site seems to incorporate" What I was wondering is didnt the company test the viscosity of your oil to show how its wearing? Also seems like it skipped over some other elements to test. I would post my test but unfortunately cannot find it at this time. Your high silicon count with the K&N usage could also be from outside your oil pan (ie. dirt getting into your sample). Not to be a loud mouth......I been waiting for someone to sponsor me a Amsoil filter to test side by side with identical trucks but no ones offered yet... I figure we could get some "realworld" results. If you want a really thorough analysis drop me an email and I can give you a number.It was 13 bucks to have mine done with shipping. Bill
Gmanjr96@aol.com

[Paintdude]

I get mine done for free (Archer Petroleum)and I do the samples mid stream..

Thanks, I will post my next results when the time comes..I am just gonna have a rough time going 5000 miles on a oil change..I aint used to that..