How will 2007 LBZ feel to me compared to my former 2002 LB7?

[LyndaSuzan]

Until recently, I had a stock 2002 crew can dually 4x4, with the LB7 Duramax engine with auto (Allison) transmission (which I had purchased new 9 long years ago). I loved that truck almost beyond reason. Not only did it have a tremendous amount of power for pulling our 6 horse trailer fully loaded, but it was ALSO very, very quick off the line (both empty and, to a lesser degree, loaded), from a dead stop. If I wanted to "tromp on it" a little bit, my 2002 was "almost" as quick as a gas engine, off the line. Although it didn't have that big "surge of power" feeling that a gas engine gives you when you floor it; the actual quickness, 0 to 60 or 70 miles per hour "in a heartbeat" speed that my diesel truck gave me was freaking amazing (for a diesel). I had never driven a diesel that came even close to its "off the line" responsiveness. I didn't feel any turbo lag; it just quietly "got on down the road" when I put the pedal to the metal. Sadly, due to some temporary financial difficulties, I had to sell my 2002 truck for some quick cash. Now I am looking for a replacement. After much research, I have decided to buy a 2006 or 2007 LBZ, since I can't afford to buy new right now, and the LBZ seems to have the least trouble, and the most power of any of the newer used Duramaxes available. *I am due to test drive a*LBZ 2007 Sierra on Saturday. Although it has taken me a long time to get to my question--here it is: *I know 2007 has more emissions*
stuff than my 2002 did. *But, I also know the 2006-2007 LBZ has quite a bit more horsepower in the stock LBZ engine than my 2002 LB7 did. *So, should the 2007 (unloaded) feel similarly quick off the line as my 2002 did? *I'm travelling quite a distance to try it, and I don't want to turn my nose up at it -- if it is not quite as quick as my 2002--if that is normal behavoir for the 2007's. *The reason I want opinions is because I tried a stock 2006 LBZ the other day and wad very disappointed. *It felt pretty doggy and non-powerful off the line. *It didn't come within a country mile of the responsiveness off the line of my 2002. I turned my nose up at the 2006; thinking the engine had been abused. *Was I right-- or will all 2006-7 LBZs feel doggy to me, compared to my pre-emissions 2002? *I've tried to compare 0-60 data; 1/4 *mile data etc. for stock LB7/LBZ trucks. *By the numbers, the two trucks ought to be very close in both quick responsiveness and power to pull a big load easily. *If that's true, then the 2006 I tried was just used up or ill-tuned or ??
*
Rather than relying on "data" about the two engines, I would love to hear real world experience from those of you who have had*experience owning / driving the STOCK 2001 or 2002 LB7, then later bought a STOCK LBZ, and ran it that way (stock)--at least for awhile. *If there are any of you out there, give me your thoughts on how the two trucks were in quickness off the line, and in pulling a load. *If you don't have heavy pulling information; that's okay, too. I'm fairly confident that the 2007 truck will be strong enough with my trailer--I would still like your opinion about off the line quickness between the two.*
When I go to test drive the 2007 on Saturday, I don't want to expect more out of it then it is going to give me; and then falsely think that the engine is bad just because it doesn't feel "quite"*as good as my beloved 2002 did. Thoughts, anyone? PS I know proper tuning is key; but assume a 2002 and 2007 are equally well tuned, for this comparison. *Thanks!!*

[Kennedy]

I find that it is quite an advancement going to the LBZ/6 speed and Bosch controller. A little tune goes a long ways.

[Enigma]

I find that it is quite an advancement going to the LBZ/6 speed and Bosch controller. A little tune goes a long ways.

Kennedy,

With regard to the 06 midyear LLY / LBZ switch. Did all 06 models (regardless of LLY or LBZ) get the 6 speed allison?

Also is the claimed HP increase true between 06 LLY and LBZ. Its quite a jump going to the LBZ?

How do the engines differ in 06 models? What improvements were made in the 06 LBZ over the 06 LLY?

[cowboywildbill]

Our 06 and 07 LBZ was a big improvement over the 02 GMC we owned.
We were running an edge box and Banks exhaust on our 02 and we towed in level 2. Big difference in pulling power with the chip.
The stock 06 and 07 LBZ wasn't as fast maybe in the 1/4 mile empty as the chipped 02 was when I ran it on level 3 or 4, but the bone stock LBZ's pulled a little better towing heavy.
Now the 2011 LML we are driving is even better, they just keep getting stronger and better.

[willydmax]

I've towed many miles with a 02 Dmax crew cab 4x4 and then also towed not so much with a 07 classic, twin to the 02. The 02 was noisier and towed like a champ but the 07 would out tow it. The big difference between the 2 was the 07 was so much quieter and smoother that it fooled you into thinking it was slower. If you are used to the LB7 the LBZ seems slower and less peppy. This was towing GCW of around 18k to 22k. Hope this helps. I would not be a bit afraid of the LBZ especially if it was the 06 and then the 07 classic.

[NutNbutGMC]

The LBZ is a good machine.

[Dmax2006]

Both motors are great.....Tune them....it will add a little zip. I tuned my 04 ran great I will be tuning my 2006 Dually soon over at JK.

[LyndaSuzan]

Thanks to everyone. Your responses, giving real life day to day experiences you have had with the two trucks were just what I had hoped for. I've run the VIN check (thanks to GMTech on this forum), and there was nothing scary or abnormal there, I have run a Carfax report (2 owners, 2 years ownership by each, with great service records showing regular maintenance by each owner); now all that's left is flying out the 250 miles for the test drive and having a local dealership do a visual inspection (did I mention that I am very mechanically challenged?). Later I would love to chip the truck, as suggested by a poster, but since Ill be spending all my pennies just to buy the truck, for now I'm just glad that the responses show I'll be pretty happy with the stock performance. My 2002 was a great truck; I am glad I won't be moving down in class with this 2007 LBZ GMC Sierra Classic 3500 crewcab dually SLT 4x4-- provided of course the truck "walks the walk" as well as the current owner "talks the talk" about it. Wish me luck. I am so excited for Saturday to get here. I have stopped shopping for trucks locally because i am so convinced this clean-history, perfectly spec'd (for my needs) 2007 Sierra Classic is the one. I haven't been truckless in decades (showing my age here), and I am definitely going through withdrawal pains. Thanks again, everyone, for your valued input.

[JohnC]

With regard to the 06 midyear LLY / LBZ switch. Did all 06 models (regardless of LLY or LBZ) get the 6 speed allison?

All the '06's are all mechanically and electrically the same. The only difference is the programming. Load 06 LBZ programming in an 06 LLY and you have an LBZ. (OK, except for the VIN...)

[Kennedy]

If you end up with a 2006 Vin 2 please repeat after me:

"My truck has the LBZ engine"


If you call your engine LLY it will hate you and worst of all you are bound to get the wrong parts as someone wil undoubtedly associate it with the 2005 LLY sooner or later. If you call it LBZ it will live happily ever after and you will never get the wrong parts...

[Inspector]

As for the question "do all the models have a six speed?" The answer is no. The Medium duty 06 LLY/LBZ change over has a 5 speed. Works for me.
Denny

[Mark Rinker]

Came across this thread. Owned and towed a couple hundred thousand with '01 and '02 LB7. Owned and towed a couple hundred thousand with two '06 LBZs.

The LB7 stock does spool up or react quicker upon initial acceleration. Probably differences in turbos, or turbo + lack of restriction in stock exhaust. Could even be tuning / fuel rates, but you are correct in your assessment.

However, the towing capability and overall fit and finish of the trucks by 2006 is far superior to the 2002. 6 speed Allision, paddle shift on the steering wheel is nice, too.

Agreed they keep getting better and better, but they also keep asking for more fuel to do the same work. Get used to that. The initial LB7 offering was the easiest to tune up, and gave back the best overall fuel utilization.

$5000 question: How many miles on the injectors in the truck you are interested in? Best estimate is 150K per set. Do your offering on the truck knowing that you'll spend $5K for a new replacement set...point that out to the seller, thats probably why they are selling now vs. later...

[cowboywildbill]

Our LBZ's used a little more fuel than our 02 did, but our 02 had a Banks exhaust and an edge box on it. It did pretty well if I kept my foot out of it. The rear tires didn't last long if I didn't. "LOL"
It would flat get it empty. But our new LML is getting about the same maybe better mpg than our 02 did empty and towing and it is better than our 06 and 07 mpg's. It is amazing that more torque and HP and a lot more quiet and heavier truck get's better MPG's but it does. I guess the transmission has a lot to do with it? And you have to figure that fuel has changed in the last few years and I am pretty sure that the old sulphur fuel gave us better mpg's back then as well as not having all of the emmissions stuff that we have now.
So who knows?

[LyndaSuzan]

First, let me apologize for the huge post to follow; but I want to give all the facts to see if my planned course of action on Saturday makes common and financial sense to you Dieselpage folks. Mark Rinker gave me some very good input on his real life experiences with his 2002 LB7's and his 2006 LBZ's with 200k of use. Then he inquired about current odometer mileage on my prospective purchase, the 2007 Sierra 3500 crewcab dually SLT 4x4, cautioning me about injectors costing $5,000 to replace (gasp) which will probably be going out at around 150,000. Mark advised me to use this upcoming huge repair expense as a bargaining tool on the purchase price. Great idea, but we already set the purchase price in stone on the Sierra (I wouldn't travel the 250 miles to try the truck without first bargaining; and knowing a firm, bottom dollar price the seller would accept (providing the truck is EXACTLY what seller describes, condition and performance-wise). The current mileage on the truck is indeed the "big factor" in this hoped-for purchase. The Sierra that I am to see in Saturday has 112,000 miles on it. If we buy it, the truck would only be used to pull our trailer/ and related "go get feed/hay" type use--not to commute to work; so I think we would have two or three years of use out of this truck before we started worrying about replacing the set of injectors (knock on wood). This truck has had two owners. The first owner restored and sold classic cars, and put 90,000 miles on it in the first two years of its life (delivering the classic cars to customers). I figure anybody who restores classic cars knows how to maintain a nice Duramax, so I feel good about that, if it's true (heard this from second owner; who appears to me to be very honest and forthright; some things they said I was able to verify later via VIN check and Carfax). To continue: first owner had extended warranty and stayed on top of "standard" problems that have cropped up with the LBZ's. I know this to be true from VIN report (excerpts from the truck's VIN report is attached later in this email). The Carfax report likewise shows first owner was meticulous about maintaining / doing standard oil changes and other required maintenance on it. The second owner, who bought the Sierra at 90,000 miles, has had the truck for two years; has used it mainly to haul kids to rodeos (had others vehicles for their daily commutes) and has only put an additional 20,000 miles on it in those two years. Second owner (husband and wife) claim that they have not had so much as a check engine light in the two years they have owned the truck; and have also maintained the truck as well as the first owner--following his written guidelines to them about "when to do what" (oil changes, filters, etc. as required). The VIN check seems to back up second owner's claim of no problems; and Carfax backs up their claims of routine maintenance. According to second owner, they are selling because husband was relocated and had to take a very significant pay cut; thus they can't afford payments on this third "playtime" vehicle. (Could be true, but intend to have local dealership there check truck out to make sure nothing is getting ready to break on the truck; which could instead be the REAL driving force behind seller's desire to sell their truck.)

Here is the pertinent repair info from VIN check report:
Odometer Reading*03/07/2009 275842 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction K9530 - Transmission Fluid Cooler Lower Pipe Assembly Replace 81,016 MI*04/05/2008 260907 ZSCT----Service Contracts E7700 - Shaft, Steering Intermediate - Replace 39,888 MI*04/05/2008 260907 ZSCT----Service Contracts K5393 - Lines And/Or Fittings, Transmission Oil Cooler - Lower or Right - At Radiator - Repair Or Replace 39,888 MI*11/10/2007 254463 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction J6270 - Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve Replacement 27,010 MI*01/10/2007 A83153 ZPDI----Pre-Delivery Inspection Z7000
*******
Now we get to pricing of the truck: Besides having the SLT (leather, etc.) package, this Sierra has the following aftermarket items: spray on bed liner, custom heavy duty Ranch Hand bumpers front and rear (seen pics; really nice looking ones!) including added support for the bumpers; aluminum diamond plate truck box; towing package; trailer brake controller; headache rack with backing lights, brake lights and turn signals; B&W GN turnover ball hitch.

PRICING: The purchase price on this Sierra is $26,750. It has no dents or dings and is not supposed to have ever been wrecked; the only body-type damage is a cracked windshield.

I sold my previous similarly configured truck, (2002 Chevy 3500 crewcab dually LT3 4x4) which had 65,000 miles on it for $18,000; so, it is costing me an additional $8750 to buy this five years' newer 2007 truck (which has almost 50,000 more miles on the odometer than my 2002 did). For the 2007 Sierra I am now hoping to purchase, Kelly BB and Edmunds show that the private purchase price should actually be between $2500 to $4000 higher than the $26,750 I have agreed to pay; IF the car is in stated condition. Pricing via Kelly BB and Edmunds TMV was calculated using second TIER "clean condition" / not the top "excellent" condition. From pics, I believe this truck would qualify for "excellent" tier of conditioning; except for cracked windshield. It looks brand new in the pics; but it could be a different story in person; I'll see on Saturday.*

When I first started looking for my "replacement" truck, I was convinced that in this horribly fragile economy, I could find a "somewhat high mileage" 2006 or 2007 LBZ for CONSIDERABLY less money than $26750. However, I have been looking for several weeks via Craigslist, AutoTrader, Edmunds, and via local dealers where I've previously bought new trucks--and the LBZ's, configured like I need (3500 crewcab dually SLT or LT3 4x4), are very scarce; and if they have low mileage, the price really really starts to go up.

So, I welcome posters' opinions--good deal or no? If you say "no"; then please point me to those great trucks around the Dallas/ Fort Worth Texas area where I can get the better deal. I'm leaving Saturday morning, to look at and hopefully purchase the Sierra, so your window of opportunity to talk me out of this deal is short. Thanks for everyone's patience about this run-on post (so much information, so little time!), and I welcome your input--good or bad planned purchase? Vote now.

[cowboywildbill]

Mark has a lot of miles and experiences with these trucks and is pretty good at knowing all of the $$ issues per mile type things. Sounds like a fair deal to me. The bumpers and hitch and liner probably runs about $2,000 or more to have installed and you can just back up to it and tow and that is a big plus.
Not that I would worry too much about it, but if it does need injectors at some point they should be cheaper labor wise to have done because the LBZ doesn't have all of the under the valve cover plumbing and return lines that the earlier engines did. So I'm guessing that should be less to have done than say an 02 would.
One of the Techs on the forum should be able to chime in on the cost $ of that.
While we were at the All American Quarter Horse Congress last October in Columbus, OH We traded our 07 classic 3500 C/C in on a 3500 LML 2011truck. We got $34,900 for our 07 it had 19,000 miles on it and loaded.It was sold within an hour of it moving to the dealers lot So your deal sounds pretty good. I still hear of people looking for 06 and 07 LBZ's and are having a hard time finding them. Good luck with everything hope it is as good as it sounds. Let us know how it turns out.

[Mark Rinker]

Sounds like a reasonable deal to me. Not impossible to duplicate, but there is alot to say about buying a truck already set up for towing and working. There is alot of $$$ in all the accessories, oddly I run these trucks pretty stock, and trade often.

[LyndaSuzan]

I've still been surfing, and found a 2006 with only 65,000 miles, as opposed to 2007 with 112,000. Could somebody run a VIN check on 1GCJK33D46F163450? Opinions as to 2007 with 112,000 over 2006 with 65,000? Same price, about same options except 2006 doesn't have RanchHand bumpers or GN hitch but does have a DVD player. One thing that worries me. One owner of 2006 LBZ traded it in for a 2011 Ford !! Usually you don't switch brands if you are happy with a vehcile. Sorry I'm bugging everybody so much. Just want to make the BEST decision. I am due to fly out in the AM on the 2007. EEK. Thanks in advance.

[LyndaSuzan]

Yesterday, my husband got the news they were changing his work hours, which means we can no longer carpool. This means that the truck we buy will be used for his commute of approx 80 miles a day. In light of this new development, it doesn't make sense to buy a truck with 115k already on it. (Mark Rinker's advice that on average, we can expect to replace injectors at around 150,000 miles, at an estimated cost of $5000, really tormented me and drove my decision to give this truck a pass-- since my husband's "new" solo commute will start racking up those miles. When we first considered this truck, we planned to use it only for hauling our horses and related stuff, so the 115,000 miles didn't scare me, since we would have been adding miles at a much slower rate than is now the anticipated new scenario.

I explain all this so everyone who gave such great advice won't think I'm just a window shopper who is wasting their time with my silly questions.

So, the hunt continues, but for 3500 LBZ 4x4 crewcabs with lower mileage. Thanks again. Your advice hasn't been in vain. I will use it in my continued quest.

[Yukon6.2]

Hi
I would buy a cheep little beater for commute.Let it rack up the miles and wear from having bad weather.Save the truck for work.Trucks are made to work not haul one person to work,a real waste of money and a truck to log 80 miles a day empty.You will save a ton of money with the commuter using it as that,no worries about wasting the milage on those expensive injectors.You could buy 2 commuter cars for the price of one injector job.I could buy 10 cars for the price of am injector job,they may need a little work,but all our daily drivers are purcased at around that price,just picked up an 03 sierra for less than that.
Just the savings in fuel will pay for the beater.
My .02
good luck in your search
Thomas

[cabletech]

I would get a cheap, reliable car to drive to work. I have a 2000 Saab 9-3 that I drive to work. I do drive my truck once a week in the summer and when it snows in the winter. I think leaving a truck sit is worse than driving it from time to time.
I do like my 2006 LBZ. It does a great job of pulling our trailer. The only problems I have had is transmission cooler lines leaking and the TCM died last fall. I have also replaced all 4 brake rotors due to rust on the back side. Since you are not in a salt belt, this shouldn't be a problem.

Jay