Newbie With a 1983 G Series Van & 6.2

[Bigshankhank]

Howdy, trying to get an old van up and running. Never worked on a diesel before though I have been the family mechanic on everything else over the years. 61,500 miles on it.
When we first got it, the battery was completely flat. Decided on a lark to hook up the jumper cables and see what worked electrically. Glow plug light came on then deactivated after 20 seconds or so, the starter buzzed, lights came on, so everything seemed to be in good order. Put in a new battery last night and things were different. No more glow plug light, no more activity at the starter. There is a solenoid (I think) on the rear of the left cylinder head that is clicking/buzzing like there is a short. When it would click-buzz, the cabin lights would flicker, once the buzzing stopped the lights would come back up. Once I disconnected this object from the wiring harness the lights and stereo would hold steady, no more buzzing. I will post up a picture to this thing later this morning. In the meantime, does anyone have any thoughts as to what this might be? Or a troubleshooting guide to diagnose the ignition?
Thanks for the help.

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy back and welcome.
That van should have two batteries.
The second one is located under the drivers side by the frame rail. a REAL PITA to get at and service.
Because they are such a pain to get at, most people never do anything with it or even know it's there.
Very possible that that battery is toast and/or shorted and the cables are bad.
These diesels use a ALLOT of juice so two GOOD batteries are needed along with good connections and cables.
I would start with checking that other battery.

[Bigshankhank]

Howdy back and welcome.
That van should have two batteries.
The second one is located under the drivers side by the frame rail. a REAL PITA to get at and service.
Because they are such a pain to get at, most people never do anything with it or even know it's there.
Very possible that that battery is toast and/or shorted and the cables are bad.
These diesels use a ALLOT of juice so two GOOD batteries are needed along with good connections and cables.
I would start with checking that other battery.

Yep, I found the 2nd one, since this is a class B RV I had thought that that 2nd battery was the "house" battery. I was able to get it down ok, getting a new one back up in there I can imagine will be a heck of a forearm workout.

[Bigshankhank]

Here's the little bugger;

[DmaxMaverick]

Glow plug relay (solenoid). Low voltage will cause it to click/buzz, just like a starter solenoid. If it's clicking and buzzing, it'll probably be OK with the correct power to it.

[Bigshankhank]

Glow plug relay (solenoid). Low voltage will cause it to click/buzz, just like a starter solenoid. If it's clicking and buzzing, it'll probably be OK with the correct power to it.

Ah that is awesome news, thank you. I ordered the Dieselpages troubleshooting manual because lord knows this van, as well as me, will need all the help it can get.

[Dvldog8793]

FYI about the second battery.
Make sure it fits the snuggly in the compartment with NO wiggle room.
Also make sure the cable connectors do not contact the box in any way.
They have changed battery styles and sizes over the years and I found that with newer batteries in my van I had to add some material in the box to keep the battery and cables in order and not move around.
It is a MUCH easier job done with a floor lift rather than on your back....
Good luck!

[Bigshankhank]

Ah, a floor lift how nice would that be? Nope, everything on this rig will be me laying on my back I'm afraid. Luckily there is plenty of ground clearance. I have a H-frame motorcycle life that I think I can work up underneath to lift the tray into place, and the restraints are still intact so if the battery is the same size, I should be good to go. I checked and both batteries show the same date (2011) so they were replaced with modern ones at least once in its life.

[Bigshankhank]

Well with a pair of good batteries and 5 gallons of fresh diesel it fired right up! I bled a little fresh brake fluid into the lines and took it for a spin around the neighborhood. After a couple of laps and maybe 20-30 minutes idling, it cleared out the white smoke and settled in to a nice smooth idle. Pretty stoked about this RV project.
Voltage was reading 12.78 at idle, I know that's too low, easy answer is the alternator, any other common culprits for this?

[Dvldog8793]

check the voltage at just a touch over idle.
If it jumps up right away, if it were mine, I would leave it.
A new alt might not change that. A smaller alt pulley might help.

[Bigshankhank]

check the voltage at just a touch over idle.
If it jumps up right away, if it were mine, I would leave it.
A new alt might not change that. A smaller alt pulley might help.

Thanks, the voltage gauge on the dash rises while driving but it should still put out more voltage at idle. What confounds me is, at rest (non-running) the battery reads 12.4v across the terminals which should be enough to start it, but it just turns over very slowly and won't kick on. I'm thinking there's something else that's causing the voltage loss and drawing power. According to the manual I have, there is a ground strap between the left head and the frame that is a potential issue, and I also need to check out the isolator between the two batteries.
Oh yeah and you may already know this but this has a generator, not a proper alternator. According to this book GM didn't switch to an alternator until '86.

[Dvldog8793]

Howdy
The regular vans (any GM that uses two battery system for JUST vehicle operation) do not have an isolator. Typically an isolator is only used when one of two batteries is used for a completely different purpose, like running your camper. The isolator allows the battery to be charged and used without discharging the other battery. For vehicle operation(not camper or other stuff), the two batteries should be hooked directly in parallel.

Grounds can always be an issue and should be checked. Most of time the smaller grounding straps are not going to effect the starter. Your main ground cables to the block or frame could. Bad grounding straps or wires might be the problem for your low voltage charging or voltage gauge reading. I would hook up a multi-meter direct to the batteries and see what is really happening with voltage.
If you KNOW the cables/connections are good.... it sounds like a weak starter to me. As I posted earlier, we just had a similar problem. New batteries, new cables and grounds, good charging, the starter was not that old. truck did not like to start and would require 10-15 seconds of turning over before it would light. The starter never failed, but to my ears, never really sounded fast enough. We replaced the starter and problem solved.

Having a battery voltage of 12.4, when not running, is an indicator of healthy battery cells. Measured under load when starting your voltage shouldn't drop much below 10.5 or so.
ALL my vehicles have alternators, I have not seen a generator(all alternators can technically be called a generator) on a standard vehicle for a long time. Maybe your truck is different due to it being an RV type. Not saying this is FACT just that nothing I own or have worked on(besides my tractor) has a bonified generator.
IIRC....the term "alternator" was a Chrysler term, GM had delcotron generators and ford had AC generators. All of them were the same deal, meaning what we currently call an alternator, an internally rectified DC generator vs a dynamic DC generator.
"Alternator" has become the "crescent wrench" for internally rectified DC generator systems in vehicles. It did take GM longer to switch to an internally regulated system vs an external voltage regulator.
Again this is just what I remember from basic vehicle electric classes, and my memory is real good just kinda short....

[AVM62]

Hi I'm just seeing this post. I too have a 1983 G van RV welcome to the club. I agree with what was said before. When you start it cold is it going into fast idle? I replaced my alternator and starter. Old starter wasn't spinning fast enough, I went to a auto electric shop and had them fit a alternator with more amperage, run larger wires from the alternator to the isolator and to the chassis. Also new ground wires. I run two chassis batteries and two house batteries. I had this work done about 10 years ago. My normal voltage running is 13.7 to 13.9 volts. I mostly use my RV as a cabin now. She can sit for months and still start right up, I love that about her.

[Bigshankhank]

Hi I'm just seeing this post. I too have a 1983 G van RV welcome to the club. I agree with what was said before. When you start it cold is it going into fast idle? I replaced my alternator and starter. Old starter wasn't spinning fast enough, I went to a auto electric shop and had them fit a alternator with more amperage, run larger wires from the alternator to the isolator and to the chassis. Also new ground wires. I run two chassis batteries and two house batteries. I had this work done about 10 years ago. My normal voltage running is 13.7 to 13.9 volts. I mostly use my RV as a cabin now. She can sit for months and still start right up, I love that about her.

Oh man you and I need to talk more, then. Yes, exactly as you described when it sits for a day or so, it'll start right up but will idle fast for a little while before settling down. Then the idle because a little erratic. However if I have driven it or allowed it to reach normal operating temps, once I shut it off it will not start. In that case, the starter drags like it is not getting enough voltage to spin the engine.
For now, we are only driving it to and from the storage yard as my HOA won't let me keep it at my house, so on the weekends my daughter is gutting the interior and searching for water leaks while I work on the chassis stuff like the brakes and suspension. Once its bare inside, we can re-seal the windows and redeck the floor then figure out the electrical and propane systems. We are going to add more house batteries with an inverter and solar controller and put panels on the roof as the original generator was gone when we got it.
Got any pictures of your rig?

[Bigshankhank]

Here's mine;


The interior as it was;

The interior as it is now;

The forum-relevant engine picture;

[Bigshankhank]

Hmmm, replace?


YES


This seems like a pretty straightforward thing to do, except that in the process of removing the old master cylinder, the steel brake line to the proportioning valve revealed its degredation due to rust and came apart. Due to the tight confines of the valve location preventing me from simply removing the damaged line, I had to remove the entire valve, remove the damaged lines (two of them are in bad enough shape to warrant replacement), reinstall the valve and good lines, and run out to get the necessary replacement parts and tools.


We also have new pads & shoes, once these new parts are installed and new fluid flushed throughout I will assess the brakes and decide if the calipers needs replacement. It brakes fairly well, we shall see.

Also, and this is a strange one, but while working beneath the engine compartment, the end of my wrench knocked loose this little gem

I honestly have no idea where it came from, there is no empty housing from which this would have fallen, certainly nothing which appears to be missing a tiny little motor/coil. It was literally just sitting loose on part of the frame. Any ideas?

Lastly, I am chasing a longstanding lighting problem. The right taillight works on both the low and high wattage functions (running & brake/signal lights), however the left light only works on the low wattage circuit. Swapping the known good bulbs from the right side to the left does not change anything, in fact ALL six taillight bulbs work when tested on the right side. Current focus is getting this vehicle safe, so these lights are high on the priority list.

Wait, forgot something else. There was a pair of old fog lights a PO had mounted below the front fender and chickensh!t wired into the harness (you can see the white wire to them taped to the front-most metal brake line in the master cylinder picture). One had been torn off leaving just a mounting bracket when we got the rig, and the other was smashed housing with no lense. They just irritated me leaving the remnants there, so while below I cut them loose from the harness and removed the brackets and light. That's when I realized they were wired in to the secondary fuel pump (the one beneath the engine). So I had to reconnect that little necessity.

[Bigshankhank]

We also went ahead and replaced both engine batteries as they had both gone completely flat after sitting for about six weeks. While the hood was open we rebuilt the alternator, now it idles at 13.6-13.8v. We did this work before Thanksgiving, and hadn't been back it until this afternoon and it cranked up in a hurry. Well worth the effort.

[DmaxMaverick]

Windshield washer pump, most of it. It probably disintegrated and fell apart during a prior replacement. They'll do that.

Tail lamp issues can be a real bear. In my experience, the most likely suspect, if all the grounds check out, is the crab assy (signal switch) under the steering wheel. If that's the case, it's also a good time to replace the upper column shaft bearings, horn contacts, and a good cleaning of the ignition cylinder. If it has tilt, it can be a bit of a hassle getting it back together, mostly the steering lock ring retainer clip. There's a tool for that, but I've managed without.

[Bigshankhank]

Windshield washer pump, most of it. It probably disintegrated and fell apart during a prior replacement. They'll do that.

Tail lamp issues can be a real bear. In my experience, the most likely suspect, if all the grounds check out, is the crab assy (signal switch) under the steering wheel. If that's the case, it's also a good time to replace the upper column shaft bearings, horn contacts, and a good cleaning of the ignition cylinder. If it has tilt, it can be a bit of a hassle getting it back together, mostly the steering lock ring retainer clip. There's a tool for that, but I've managed without.

Never even thought about the washer pump, I'll give it another look, thank you.
Considering the right taillamps work both low and high wattage, I think it's just a wiring problem on the left side.

[DmaxMaverick]

Never even thought about the washer pump, I'll give it another look, thank you.
Considering the right taillamps work both low and high wattage, I think it's just a wiring problem on the left side.

Perhaps.

All of the left/right rear lighting (except for markers), and the hazards, run through the crab. It could be a wiring issue, but if you are having an issue with more than one run on the same side, the usual suspect is the crab. The assy is plastic, gets brittle over time, and just breaks. Some will fail at the contacts if usage is high (too many drivers never use theirs). If the detents are "soft", it's on the way out or already gone. They should be "crisp" and defined. If it's original, it would be at the top of my list, even if you have another problem elsewhere.