Starter Issues

[airbrushdoc]

Ok, so I have a 1997 6.5l Turbo Diesel. Has the 4L80E transmission. I just replaced the starter and starter bolts in her last week. Got a couple of starts before I started getting a grinding noise while cranking. After 2 or 3 tried with the grinding, it no longer would crank, and did nothing but grind. Pulled the transmission, and replaced the flexplate with a brand new one. Got a couple of cranks, then same grinding. I took the starter back, and got another new one, and am still having the same problem. Was able to look at the armature/flexplate gap, and I have quite a large space (about half an inch or more). I have put 5 shims now on the outer side of the starer, and am still quite aways away from the flex plate. Any idea on how to get the starter any closer? I am still about half an inch away, and barley making contact on the flexplate.

[Robyn]

Hi

Welcome to TDP

Where did you get the starter ????

I have never seen a 6.5 starter not work right, and have never needed shims..

The 6.5 starter is only usable on the 6.2 and 6.5 diesel engines....

I am suspect that somebody sold you the wrong starter.

The pinion diameter on the starter must be correct, and no gasser starters will work.

GET HOLD of a known 6.5 starter and compare it to whatever you are being sold.

The issue is not the rig....but whatever people are selling you to use for a starter

Good luck

Keep us in the loop

ALSO VERY IMPORTANT

NEVER LEAVE THE FRONT STARTER SUPPORT OFF.....THIS CAN AND WILL RESULT IN BROKEN STARTER BOLTS AND OR THE BLOCK.

[airbrushdoc]

Got the starter and flexplate both from Autozone. First starter matched perfectly to my old starter that I pulled from the truck. Second starter matched the first. The new starer bolts came from the Chevy dealer here locally.

[airbrushdoc]

And yes, the front support is there, and tight. One of the first things that I made sure of.

[Robyn]

Are the gears the same diameter and the correct tooth count ????




Now.

The only way I know to see whats happening is to drop the lower cover off the flywheel housing and have someone click the starter while you watch whats happening.

Is the pinion engaging the ring gear all the way and are the teeth fully meshed....????


What happened to the old starter ????

Can you get the core back to further examine things ??????

[airbrushdoc]

The starter gear extends plenty enough, but the mesh is what is causing the issue. The teeth make just enough contact to spin, but slip off just enough to start grinding. I will see if I can get a pic later on today. I have the dust shield off the transmission, so have a pretty good view.

[Robyn]

Great

If the pinion can't penetrate the gear then the starter has to be wrong.

I have replaced many starters on the 6.2/6.5 engines and have never seen one that did not fit correctly.

The shims only allow for a slight mesh depth change, nothing to do with the depth the pinion goes in.

I am still thinking that the starter is incorrect.

Rebuilt or new ????
I HAVE ALWAYS used AC Delco starters on any I have changed.

I used to have a local rebuilder do mine. He was an absolute whizz at auto electric stuff...

Better than new quality.....

[Robyn]

Would you get piccy's of the starter please and of it on the engine

[airbrushdoc]

20200222_100047_resized.jpg

20200222_100143_resized.jpg


Here are the photos. The gear will go about 3/4 of the way or better across the teeth, but as you can see, it is significantly further from the teeth, making it skip/grind across the top of the teeth. Between the armature, and flex plate you should have about 1/8 inch gap (via allen wrench or drill bit. I can easily sick a pencil inbetween.

[Robyn]

Wrong starter
I can't be sure if it's the entire starter or the starter drive that's wrong.

But I suspect the drive is wrong

Also it may be the nose cone on the starter is wrong.

It is definitely wrong....
As I mentioned, I have swapped many of these and never and issues

You said the same thing with the original flex plate ????

OK

I Dragged out a factory Delco starter I took of a 6.5 (My own)

Get yours off the rig
Measure the drive teeth diameter (1.264") tooth to tooth
10 tooth count

Lay a straight edge across the mounting flat and measure the distance to the top of a tooth that's as close to parallel as possible.

1-1/4 to 1-5/16" (My nose bushing is a tad loose)
From the edge of the straight edge touching the machined surface where the starter mounts to the tooth tip (Outer diameter)

Minor differences may be seen...

This is gonna tell the story.

I suspect either an improper drive or the nose cone is wrong one or mis-machined

[airbrushdoc]

I have the unit out, and will be swapping it again for another new unit. If this one doesnt fit up the way it is spose to, I will be getting a refund, and ordering an AC delco online, or DB Electrical. Measurements I was able to take from the mounting surface to the top of the tooth was 1 1/4". I dont have a caliper handy to measure the gear, but it is a 10 spline gear on it.

[Robyn]

Could also be possible the bolt hole location is slightly off
If the offset is correct then the bolt hole location is in the crosshairs.

Personally I would take the refund and get the Delco.

As there are few 6.5 starters being sold the possibility is that some were made wrong and until the bitching starts and someone takes notice of an error in mfg...it could be these have been floating around a while.

Chances are that the slight mung on the new flex plate teeth will wear in quickly

What brand was that starter ???? US MADE ????

Good luck

[airbrushdoc]

Ok, got the new starter, and got it installed. this one sits MUCH better. I slide the allen wrench between the armature and the flex plate, and am now just a slight gap away (will have to use a shim) the gear now slide into the flexplate like it is spose to. All 3 starters have been the Autozone Duralast brand. This one however the nose cone looks significantly different than the other two. Solves my biggest issue now. After I replace the rear yoke, I'll be back on the road! Thanx Robyn for the help!

[Robyn]

Unless the gear binds do not use a shim.

You betcha
Glad we got it figured out...

[DmaxMaverick]

Unless the gear binds do not use a shim....

Ditto this. The OEM and Delco starters should never need one, and were never designed to use one. Some of the aftermarket castings are undersized and include shim(s), but any OEM cast housing should never need one. If the gear engages and doesn't bind, no shim is needed. The torque of cranking forces the gears away, so anything resembling close will actually be less close in operation. The key is clean engagement, then everything else should follow from there. By your description, it fits correctly.

[phantom309]

The manual trans starters are slightly different i got one 2 yrs ago by mistake and went through this same problem,.