Front Starter support Bracket, is this it?

[DieselDavy]

I haven't used one for over a decade, at least, but I think this is it. Can anyone confirm. I have a couple of the old larger starters with one of them being rebuilt already. I think I'm going to be needing it soon. I think this is a spare front support I had. Can't remember.
Thanks,
Dave
(I hope I have that photo attaching thing working....)

[arveetek]

Yes, that's it!

Casey

[DieselDavy]

I thought so! I may be old and suffering from CRS, but I was pretty sure that was it.
Thanks so much!
Tank removal/reinstall went well. Restart, not so much. I may start another tread (no start) for that one.
Dave

[arveetek]

Tank removal/reinstall went well. Restart, not so much. I may start another tread (no start) for that one.
Dave

Bummer. I have Kennedy's fuel pump harness which has the push button for manual fuel system priming, so I never had any issue restarting after dropping the tank. Opening the fuel filter bleed valve and running the lift pump to push the air out and priming the system always worked great for me.

Casey

[More Power]

I'd recommend using new starter bolts too - torqued to 40 ft-lbs, when the starter goes back on. Jim

[Robyn]

All the above...

The "tail hook" on the starter is an absolute necessity to keep from having the block outer bolt snap the ear off the block.

Many engines have been run without the hook, but when the block breaks and the starter falls on the dirt, it's a sad day in the neighborhood...


REMEMBER

Getting the hook in place is a quick and easy job if ya remove the right front tire/wheel and the rubber flap on the inner fender.

You can sit on a bucket and connect the wires and the hook with ease...
https://www.thedieselpageforums.com/...ad.php?t=43423


Check out the link above

Scroll down to pics..."Access 2" has a great shot looking right in over the frame.

Starter and glow plug access is stellar through the opening..

I added an extra access port for the nasty number 8 glow plug...plus it allowed access to the heater hoses at the firewall, which are just nasty to get to.

Have fun

[DieselDavy]

Thanks to all three of you for the advice. The original starter is the smaller one that doesn't use the front bracket. I happen to have a couple of the original larger starters on the shelf from previous trucks, one of which is already rebuilt.
I'm pretty sure that the starter is pretty used up, BUT I will change out the batteries and check out the cables before deciding what to do with the starter. The new batteries may fix up the whole mess.

Now about the fuel. I've never had so much trouble starting after an interruption of fuel.
Every three or four starting sessions, (10 seconds only, then 10 to 30 minutes for cooling and charging) it will sputter to life, smooth out, sound good, then roll over (die) quickly.
I've tried putting a hose on the top of the filter assembly and turning the valve while the key is on and letting fuel run into a container. How much/long should this take? I've maybe run a quart through and still see air coming through. Filter changes have never been this painful, but I've not disconnected the tank nor done this with shot batteries.
I've also never had to crack the injector lines on this 6.5 like I have older ones to get the air out. Is that in my future?
Thanks again!
Dave

[arveetek]

Thanks to all three of you for the advice. The original starter is the smaller one that doesn't use the front bracket. I happen to have a couple of the original larger starters on the shelf from previous trucks, one of which is already rebuilt.

Thanks again!
Dave

First things first: ALL 6.2L/6.5L starters use a bracket. The earlier, direct-drive, heavier 6.2L starter and the later gear-drive, lighter 6.5L starter. If memory serves me correctly, the brackets are different between the two? I can't quite remember on that one. It's been nearly 10 years since I've owned a 6.2L now....

If you can get the engine to start, you don't need to crack the injector lines. If it starts and then stalls, it's still sucking air into the injection pump. You need to bleed all the air out before the injection pump. I use the Kennedy fuel pump harness to bleed mine; never had to bleed the 6.5L without it, so I don't have personal experience to guide you on that one, I'm afraid. Getting the fuel lift pump energized without the engine running is what you want to accomplish.

Casey

[DmaxMaverick]

......I've tried putting a hose on the top of the filter assembly and turning the valve while the key is on and letting fuel run into a container. How much/long should this take? I've maybe run a quart through and still see air coming through......

Bingo. You have a leak between the lift pump and fuel tank sender/inlet, above the fuel level.

[Robyn]

Another seldom mentioned issue like this CAN OCCUR when the safety valve in the tank takes a poop.

The valve is above the sock and will allow fuel to bypass a plugged sock.

Once in a while the valve and or its spring will go away and then when the fuel level drops below 1/2 more likely in the 1/4 tank range the pump sucks air.


If your fuel level is in the 1/4 range it could be a failed safety valve.

IF THE LEVEL IS LOW...TRY ADDING SOME FUEL AND SEE IF THE ISSUE STOPS


Good luck

[Robyn]

The reason for the tail hook on the starter is not the weight of the starter, but instead the bending moment that occurs while the starter is cranking the engine.

The small gear drive starters need the tail hook as much as the big direct drives do

[DieselDavy]

To be clear, I've just dropped the tank and installed a new fuel pickup/sending unit. My inspection didn't detect any obvious glaring issues, so I'd like to think the new part is good to go. Lines all seemed to be solid and tight when I re installed the tank.
To bleed some of the air out, I put a clear tube on the valve on the top of the fuel filter housing. Turned on the ignition and opened the valve. Pumped less then a quart of fuel through it and bubbles were seen during the whole event. I didn't know how long it might take? Any ideas on how long I'd have to run fuel through it to clear the air?

(I'm installing new batteries tonight, optima red tops unless someone tells me different! I discovered a couple of bad cells last night in one)

Thanks in advance.
d

[Robyn]

Just a thought...

With the fuel filter bleeder snugged up good.

Disconnect the fuel feed hose at the top of the IP (LARGER OF THE TWO)

Connect your plastic hose with a barb to the rubber hose and repeat your bleeding operation...

The fuel bleeder on the filter where it threads in is not sealed realy good once its open and there could be air getting into your clear tube through the threads in the bleeder...


Bleeding things at the IP will get rid of that one possibility and if that's the issue will prevent a lot of tail chasing and hair pulling.

Good luck

[DieselDavy]

Good plan Robyn!
I'll give that a shot tonight. Not sure how I'll hook another line to the one that I'll disconnect from the pump, but once I see it, I'll figure something out!
Thanks for the help!
Dave

[Robyn]

Use a double barb fitting...works well.

Or a piece of copper tubing and a couple clamps ...

[DieselDavy]

I pulled a 13 hour work day yesterday. Didn't even get to stop by the parts store and pick up batteries. All I did was pull the batteries and further inspect the cables. All is good. Battery trays cleaned up and waiting for the new Optimas to come home.
Dave

[DieselDavy]

Got my batteries in today. Went for broke and tried a couple of starting cycles. Didn't fire once. Tried Missy's idea, pulled input hose to IP. Clamped a hose on to that hose and tried to clear the air. Lots of air. Never cleared up. I have a video of this but it won't load because of some security token? (must be associated with the site upgrade going on)
I tried the same thing out of the lift pump. Same results. Now what?

I'm considering two possibilites:
I only put 5 gallons of fuel in the tank. The new pickup looked good and should be sitting in the fuel, but who knows.
Maybe there is something wrong with the fuel pickup I just installed. Maybe it's sucking all this air.

....Help!

[Robyn]

The air is getting into the system AFT of the lift pump.

There is either a leak in the suction line from the lift pump to the top of the tank, or inside the tank.

The only real way to sort this out is to recheck the lines for issues.

Any flex lines (Rubber) are suspect as are any connections.

Any O rings at the lift pump that may be missing or faulty ????

Same question for the connections at the tank ????

AIR IS GETTING INTO THE SYSTEM BEFORE THE LIFT PUMP

Any issues past the lift pump toward the engine will show leaks...

[DmaxMaverick]

Got my batteries in today. Went for broke and tried a couple of starting cycles. Didn't fire once. Tried Missy's idea, pulled input hose to IP. Clamped a hose on to that hose and tried to clear the air. Lots of air. Never cleared up. I have a video of this but it won't load because of some security token? (must be associated with the site upgrade going on)
I tried the same thing out of the lift pump. Same results. Now what?

I'm considering two possibilites:
I only put 5 gallons of fuel in the tank. The new pickup looked good and should be sitting in the fuel, but who knows.
Maybe there is something wrong with the fuel pickup I just installed. Maybe it's sucking all this air.

....Help!

If you have a video hosted on Youtube or some other site, just paste the link into a post. Videos won't normally embed into a post. Not related to the updates.

Robyn is right, and I'll repeat. The leak is between the lift pump and fuel level in the tank. If you added only 5 gallons to an empty tank, perhaps add another 5 gallons. If that doesn't improve it, then the problem is less likely the sender unit, and more likely a line or connection between the tank (top) and lift pump. If adding more fuel cures the leak, the problem is more likely a wrong (too short) or defective fuel sender unit.

[DieselDavy]

I'll have to revisit the pump output test. I cut the output nipple off of the old pickup assembly, (with about 4" of original steel line) and spun it into the output of the pump. While the treads match the sealing method isn't the same. (flare vs. o-ring) That could be part of the issue. Once/if I can rectify this issue, I can address the tank pickup possibility. I hate to have to put another 5 gal of fuel in just because I don't want to deal with it if I have to drop the tank again!

While I'm figuring out how to seal the pump output to stop air intrusion, I could take a detour and try looking for leaks by setting the pressure regulator on the air compressor to a few pounds, pressurize the tank and look for leaks?
Sound like a good plan?