Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: Some 6.5 diesel "Gum shoe"

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Newberg Oregon
    Posts
    12,282

    Default Some 6.5 diesel "Gum shoe"

    In trying to run down the unanswered questions on the Navistar Blocks such as the one I recently obtained, and then learned (last weekend) that the main line was too small, I had the oportunity yesterday to speak with several people across the country.

    I spoke with 3 independant shops that supply 6.5 engines that they list as "Rebuilt" In their adds they mention "New Block, "New Crank", "New Heads"

    Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't rebuilt mean remanufacture of used parts such as a ground crank or at least a pollished standard crank that meets spec. A set of heads that have had the valves reground and the seats reworked.

    A rebuilt block is one that has had the cylinders overbored and fit with new pistons of say .020", .030" or ???

    New rings, bearings gaskets etc.

    Anyway, I asked the question, WHERE are the engine blocks coming from?

    The answer was in all cases, AMG/GEP

    OOOOK so Missy here climbs on the line and spoke with AMG and GEP within a few minutes of these other conversations.

    I asked them if there were any bare blocks available for sale to engine builders. (I represented myself as a builder in search of a supply of blocks)

    The answer was NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO blocks are being sold, only complete engines.

    Soooooooo more Gum shoe. I emailed a few of these "rebuilders with the AMG/GEP blocks that they are supposedly using.

    The answer is again that the blocks are not from overseas but from US manufacture AMG/GEP

    Now, there sure is a lot of BS here on these stories. Either there are AMG Blocks available to some builders or there is not.

    I have never seen such a convoluted mess of mismatched stories, tall tales and outright lies as what has come to be regarding the 6.5 engines.

    More Gum Shoe work

    Did some more digging and spoke with a local engine wholesaler up in Portland that I have known for years.

    Now the plot thickens even more. I am told that there is now a new block thats a off shore copy of the AMG/GEP Block with all the Navistar markings and numbers.

    The only thing that seems to be different is that the copies do not have the Navistar Quality control stamps that are placed at specific places on some machined surfaces.

    I tell ya folks, this has gotten to be one helluva enigma. When you buy any 6.5 hard parts you can't really tell what your buying unless you buy direct from GEP.

    Any of the internet sales outlets are certainly in question.

    Now I won't go so far as to say that some of the materials are not of reasonable quality but, I am certainly suspect as to where the stuff is actually coming from.

    Any Block casting can be copied as can the heads, cranks ect.
    The availability of top notch machine tools makes just about anything possible this day and age.

    Just because it says GM on the casting or has the Navistar <> logo does not make it an absolute open and shut case that thats what you have, especially if its a new piece.

    Sadly there are no serial numbers on the blocks that can be cross checked with the OEM to varify the authenticity of the stuff.

    Casting numbers and Julian dates can all be copied very easily and mean little in positively identifying who made the thing.

    I know a lot more now than when I started this quest but, what I know just opens the door to more questions.

    To anyone buying a "NEW" 6.5 deisel engine, if you get it from GEP or Franklin Power Products (now a division of CATERPILLAR) you are getting the real deal. Peninsular is a good source as well.

    Beyond these suppliers I am suspect of just about everything.

    You simply can't have a bunch of companies all claiming that they have the real deal and the OEM saying otherwise unless one or more is Full of BS.


    I have seen many many aftermarket blocks for various engines that have been produced by Ford, GM, Mopar etc, and these are well known as being aftermarket copies for racing and or ??? whatever purpose the buyer had in mind. The fact is that the products are sold as what they are, A COPY.

    The mystery, stealth and outright enigma that has surrounded the 6.5 diesel replacement parts has reached a point that it's just laughable.

    The story surounding the unauthorized release of several Genuine Navistar blocks has been verified and thats about all that can be said there.
    Who did it and exactly when will likely remain a mystery as the ones involved are keeping their lips shut.

    Sooooo, to anyone buying a 6.5 engine thats being sold as a genuine AMG Block, just be sure of your source.

    Peninsular is a authorized supplier as is of course GEP itself.

    There may be some others but, any of these wholesale rebuilders are in my estimation in question.

    Just a tid bit of the continuing Saga in the swirling clouds that surround the 6.5 diesel engine and its replacements.

    Missy
    (1) 1995 Suburban 2500 4x4
    (1) 1997 Astro
    (1) 2005 Suburban (Papa Smurf)
    THIS IS BOW TIE COUNTRY

  2. #2
    Burning Oil's Avatar
    Burning Oil is offline http://www.lubedealer.com/pmdcable/home.aspx
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    270

    Default

    Its very common for foundries overseas to copy just about anything. They will use the same casting marks, dates........ect. It common on oil & gas valves too.
    Even plastics, you name it they will copy it.
    1993 4x4 1ton 6.5/4l80e runs on WVO.
    1996 1ton 2wd crew cab 6.5/4l80e with db2 IP.
    1996 1ton 4x4 crew cab dually with Cummins diesel
    1970 Chevy 4x4 big block 4 speed.
    1972 Chevelle convertible with 540 CID engine.

    We sell pmd extension cables and the Flight systems PMD or the new Stanadyne PMD with available 7 year warranty.
    Turbo Boost Bolts, engine oil cooler kits and lots of 6.5 turbo diesel parts. Check out the web site
    .

    www.pmdcable.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Stratford, Ct. // Stoddard NH
    Posts
    708

    Default

    Missy dear I think we back and forth about this right when I tossed in the new GEP motor.

    I posted several warnings about internet crap lurking as the real deal! (ex 6.5litre.com)

    You want a real AMG motor???? Call WW Williams....case closed anything else is snake oil....

    Love ya!!
    95 Suburban 1500 Bone Stock Orig.
    purchased at 103K from first owner
    new alternator/autozone gold @104K
    re-trannyed with shift kit @107.5K
    new Bilsteins all around @ 127K
    Kennedy exhaust @128k ..zoom!
    new lift pump w/OPS bypass @ 130K
    Kennedy FSD cooler @ 135K
    New IP/Injectors/G-plugs @ 137k
    Another autozone alternator and Optima Reds @ 150K
    Another pump and injectors @157K
    New chain and gears @157K
    HO pump single therm setup @157K (will see what happens)
    Head gasket or worse to be determined...164k
    NEW AM General 6.5 installed and running well! @ 164K!!!!!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Brooker, FL
    Posts
    1,217

    Default

    Genuine AMG/GEP engines are converted/completed by Peninsular Engines (f/k/a Peninsular Diesel).
    '94 Barth 28' Breakaway M/H ("StaRV II") diesel pusher: Spartan chassis, aluminum birdcage construction. Peninsular/AMG 6.5L TD (230HP), 18:1, Phazer, non-wastgated turbo, hi-pop injectors, 4L80E (Sun Coast TC & rebuild, M-H Pan), Dana 80 (M-H Cover), Fluidampr, EGT, trans temp, boost gage. Honda EV-4010 gaso genset, furnace, roof air, stove, microwave/convection, 2-dr. 3-way reefer. KVH R5SL Satellite. Cruises 2, sleeps 4, carries 6, and parties 8 (parties 12 - tested).

    Stand-ins are an '02 Cadillac Escalade AWD 6.0L and an '06 Toyota Sienna Limited.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Newberg Oregon
    Posts
    12,282

    Default

    Rameye

    Thats for sure.

    The Block that I have now and the heads are the real deal. The block is indeed a real AMG block that got loose and the heads came from a P400

    The heads were shipped on an engine that was ordered for a Hummer and the engine had the wrong heads (intake bolt angle for pickup instead of a Van/Hummer.

    My heads are new and unfired, not even any soot inside

    Yesssss indeed, there is a lot of crap out there being peddled as the "real deal"

    The engines done by Peninsular as Rusty mentioned are from AMG

    The internet sales from a good many others is Bogus though.

    My final conversation when trying to dig up the truth on the Block that I got was able to get some numbers of 100 or more blocks that were let loose.

    Nobody really knows the absolute total that got out during that debacle.

    Anyway, with a Genuine AMG block/heads and a scat crank, my new engine should be a winner (Hoping so)

    I know where there is one more of those AMG blocks and I am going to try and land it in my stable if I can.


    Missy
    (1) 1995 Suburban 2500 4x4
    (1) 1997 Astro
    (1) 2005 Suburban (Papa Smurf)
    THIS IS BOW TIE COUNTRY

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •