Several starting/running issues before my move

[GMC Hauler]

As per my usual MO, I am ready to start a move in 2 weeks, and am having some sort of issues related to a vehicle.

Everything started when I noticed the fluid leaking under the vehicle:

21 Aug 10: replaced hydroboost, found it to be leaking.

14 Sep 10: Sub would not start after cranking. Batteries were weak(known issue), but would not start after repeated cranking with another vehicle connected and running (for 15 minutes). Fuel solenoid could be heard and felt clicking on and off with the key. Lift pump could be heard running. Glow plug relay cycles normal. Fuel came out of the fuel manager drain line. Still no start. No codes in computer.

15 Sep 10: came back, replaced batteries, had to crank for several more minutes, finally started and ran fine, very little smoke after starting (i would expect a lot if i had flooded it).

19 Sep 10: Checked glow plug resistance, found one bunt out.

20 Sep 10: Changed oil, took sample. Replaced burnt out glow plug. Looked at fuel like on frame rail. Not rusty. Lift pump somewhat rusty. Looked at fuel manager. Heater wire had insulation pulled out of unit.

27 Sep 10: Replaced Fuel manager with new model including sensor, heater and new filter. Replaced fuel line from fuel manager to injection pump, severly cracked inside line. Replaced fuel line from metal line to fuel manager, severely cracked. Believed I had the problem licked now.

29 Sep 10: Sub took 2 minutes of on and off cranking to start. When it started, ran just fine, no issues.

01 Oct 10: Replaced fuel line from Fuel manager to drain valve. Small amount of cracking. Replaced rubber fuel line from metal line in back of engine to metal line running in valley, not cracked at all. Replaced small rubber line on top of lift pump to metal fuel return line, small cracking. Replaced fuel cap. Checked lift pump pressure while lift pump running, vehicle off: 7 PSI, while vehicle running, 5 PSI. Messed with wires under dash, checking on connection for my trans temp gage. Vehicle does not start. All gages work properly, plugs glow, but no solenoid click on starter, and no starter under hood relay click. Pushed fist under dash into wiring mess, vehicle started. Unknown cause. Vehicle has seemed to start somewhat slower (starter rolls slower).

02 Oct 10: Vehicle shuts of on wife after going up hill to leave driveway. Waits 2 minutes and restarts, no issues. Drives fine. I take vehicle out later that day, drives fine, feel one “fish bite”. Took out for 20 more minutes, no issues. Checked all connectors under drivers dash, none loose. Vehicle has seemed to start somewhat slower (starter rolls slower).

03 Oct 10: Drove 3 hours. At start, starter rolled slow like a weak or dead battery, but engine started. At end of driveway, notice a slight stumble, disregard as maybe my imagination. Drive for 20 minutes, then get on highway. After 10 or so minutes on highway a cruising speed (70 mph), feel one definite fish bite. Nothing after that. Set cruise control, works fine, then after a few minutes, disengages on its own. Cruise does this several times. Stopped using cruise for an hour. Use it later for 40 miles with no issue. Felt metal plate that PMD is mounted to, barely warm. No Codes in computer. No SES.

04 Oct 10: Started Suburban before taking batteries to store to get tested. At start, starter rolled slow like a weak or dead battery, but engine started., and shuts off after 1 minute. Restarts fine. Batteries tested fine at store. Reinstalled batteries, checked all connectors clean and resistance low at about 0. Sub still rolls very weak with batteries, but starts. While looking at wiring under dash, suburban rev’s itself up and back down. Oil sample comes back, no excess fuel in oil (thought that if the Sub was flooded and sat overnight, it might wash fuel down past rings and be seen in oil sample). No codes in computer. No SES.

I need some help. I thought I might have a leak in a fuel line, but now I am thinking most of this is related to a PMD. I have the Heath PMD, at least 6 years old. Injection pump has 140K on it. 179K on vehicle. Original PMD on side of injection pump, worked when first disconnected for Heath PMD. Vehicle makes plenty of smoke and boost, lots of power.

Can PMD cause cruise to disengage, or might that be another issue (like the brake switch).

Is it possible that excessive cranking has caused the starter to go bad? It is original.

Please advise. I have a short amount of time to fix this before I move the RV and family 1000 miles.

Roger

[racer55]

I have heard of pmd's causing cruise to disengage.
I would try using the original pmd for a while to rule out the remote pmd.
I would also have the starter load tested for amp draw.
Also check or replace the battery crossover cable.When running the engines with the alternator on the passenger side charges that battery first and tranfers power to the left battery via the crossover cable,when bad the left side battery that feeds the ecm runs low and can cause drivability problems and slow cranking since the right side battery is almost on its own.

[JohnC]

Yes, a failing PMD can cause the cruise control to disengage.

Flooding really doesn't apply to a Diesel, so scratch that off your list.

Have you checked the battery connections at the starter?

[GMC Hauler]

I checked all the battery connections for cleanliness and resistance. Will use a set of jumper cables from the driver to passenger side, and swap to the factory pmd tonight before the first start.

I will check voltage at the starter tonight while starting it tonight.

[GMC Hauler]

Swapped to the pump mounted PMD. Would not start at all. Swapped back to Heath bumper mounted PMD, started right away.

Can pump mounted PMD go bad over at a least a 6 year period mounted to the pump, even though it is not connected?

[rameye]

That starter issue sounds just like you called it....starter death/ burnt solenoid contacts/ toasted stator wires/ or ground issue.

keep us in the flow..

[GMC Hauler]

That starter issue sounds just like you called it....starter death/ burnt solenoid contacts/ toasted stator wires/ or ground issue.

keep us in the flow..

It cranked very slow, would not start on the factory located PMD. 9.4 volts on starter solenoid during starting. Added the jumper cable between each positive post. Rolled slow initially and after 5 or so seconds, increased to normal speed. voltage increased to 10.19 while cranking.

These voltage measurements were taken from the short heavy gage jumper wire that comes built on the starter, not the cable from the battery, all measured to ground.

Now, without the booster cable, it starts at normal speed.

Burnt contacts???

[racer55]

Sounds like solenoid troubles or bad connections.Make sure every and all ground connection is pristine- both ends of the battery grounds also.

I suspect the original pmd has dirty connections as well being exposed for that amount of time.Could well have failed no good way to tell for sure.

If you ever have to replace the IP harness cut the old pmd plug off and keep it for a dead end connection to keep the future spare pmd/heatsink combo you will likely be mounting beside your primary pmd clean.

With voltages that low during cranking you could be experiencing a problem with your Heath pmd setup that are not the pmd failing at all.

[GMC Hauler]

Sounds like solenoid troubles or bad connections.Make sure every and all ground connection is pristine- both ends of the battery grounds also.

Done

I suspect the original pmd has dirty connections as well being exposed for that amount of time.Could well have failed no good way to tell for sure.

Will go clean and retest

If you ever have to replace the IP harness cut the old pmd plug off and keep it for a dead end connection to keep the future spare pmd/heatsink combo you will likely be mounting beside your primary pmd clean.

With voltages that low during cranking you could be experiencing a problem with your Heath pmd setup that are not the pmd failing at all.

It has the no start problem even while cranking at normal speed.

[GMC Hauler]

Factory mounted PMD cleaned and retested. No start.

Started cranking slow. had wife crank while i connected jumper cable from battery to battery each positive post. no effect.

Re connected Heath bumper mounted PMD, started instantly, cranked at normal speed.

[racer55]

thats a head scratcher then!

[GMC Hauler]

Talked to Bill Heath, he thinks it is the injection pump (stalling/fishbiting/rev up on it's own issues). It does have 140K on it. Any thoughts?

[rameye]

What would allow the PMD to have an effect on the starter???

Now thats the head scratcher for me!

PMD/injection circuit short to ground??? killing the available volts????..

Timing way advanced??

Very Bizarre!

[racer55]

I recently had a similar slow cranking that speeded up to normal after a few seconds.
The soloution was to replace the battery cable to the starter, after cranking and starting I noticed the cable was hot.
High resistance in that cable,the starter was perfectly fine just a bad battery cable.
I made my own cable with a piece of #1 cable and a couple of cable ends soldered on.

[GMC Hauler]

What would allow the PMD to have an effect on the starter???

Now thats the head scratcher for me!

PMD/injection circuit short to ground??? killing the available volts????..

Timing way advanced??

Very Bizarre!

I do not think the starter and PMD issue are related. I think the starter issue was caused by excessive cranking caused by the bad PMD/injection pump (whichever it is).
Timing was set at -1.5 many years ago


I am going to go with a remanufactured pump with a PMD mounted. Heath says he rarely sees a failed PMD of his variety. The pump does have 140K on it.

I am kinda over a barrel. I start a move on Oct 15, and the Suburban must be able to tow the RV 1000 miles without error. I cannot afford a breakdown, the schedule is tight.

I will keep the old injection pump and leave the Heath PMD mounted as a spare. This way, I am back up to having a spare PMD (the Heath model, even if I have not 100 percent proven it, it does still work). This also gives me a chance to change the passenger side valve cover gasket that has been leaking since I bought it in 2003.

This vehicle has 179K on the clock. Chances are that this will be the last injection pump I buy. I expect the engine to make 300K. I use the Amsoil dual remote filtration system and oil analysis. The Sub's oil comes back good after 25K. It still tows heavy without issue.

[rameye]

Ok...

When I read it, I got the impression that the starter spun normal when you switched PMD's.

Whew...

[Robyn]

Time for a fresh starter.

The solenoid contacts burn up over time and will reduce the power to the motor itself.
The results are exactly what you describe.

The change on the IP is probably a good move.

Be sure to keep a spare PMD with you thats all ready to go including an installed resistor.


Good luck on the move.

Robyn

[GMC Hauler]

Worked on her at the hobby shop on base. New pump in (had a Dtech PMD installed on the side), New passengers valve cover gasket installed (leak). Upper intake on and torqued and then ran out of time. Hobby shop on base does not open until Tuesday.

Had one connector that I could not figure out what it connects to. It is in the snake that all the injection pump connections route through. The connector body is black with a white backing, and a purple gasket. It has 3 pins inside. I could not for the life of me figure out what this was. I connected the MAP sensor, the IAT sensor, the fuel shutoff solenoid, the stepper solenoid (on the passenger side of the pump), the flat connector that goes to the fuel solenoid and the PMD, and the connector to the optical sensor. I also connected to the coolant sensor. So i do not know what this connector is for. Please advise.

I had to take off several coolant hoses. When I disconnected the quick disconnect for the heater hose on the coolant crossover, the plastic pieces came apart. What is the recommended fix for this? I know that there is some better fix out there.

I did one bad thing: I forgot to match mark the IP before removing it. I put the new one back in approx the same place. IIRC, as long as I am in the window for the IP to operate fully, I should be ok. I intend on taking her to a dealer and getting it timed before the move.

I will replace the starter after getting her running on the new IP. One thing at a time. This always makes me nervous: medium level repairs right before a move.

[racer55]

You missed a great oportunity to remote mount the pmd to a cooler location,but if funds or waiting for parts were an issue I can understand why you left it stock.

[GMC Hauler]

You missed a great oportunity to remote mount the pmd to a cooler location,but if funds or waiting for parts were an issue I can understand why you left it stock.

I still have the heath one remotely mounted, but i see what you are saying.

Can you look at your vehicle and see what that connector i am referring to is up above?

Thanks