Oil Analysis

[Zap]

I changed oil in my brothers D/A last week; he had 23600 miles on the oil. I thought it was overdue to say the least, so I took an oil sample and sent it in to see how bad the oil was and if there was any damage to the engine. I got the oil sample back today and to my surprise it said no corrective action required oil is suitable for continued use.
With the above and other oil sample I have sent in on different vehicle, I'm convinced that it is safe to run oil longer than what the oil co. and car manufacturers recommend. I think they have us all brain washed with their recommendation and commercials. I remember the 3000-mile oil change was recommended long before I started to drive several moons ago. Seems to me it's pretty pathetic that they (oil co) are saying they haven't improved their products in that many years. That goes for the engines and air filters also. If we can safely run oil for 10000, 20000, or even 30000 miles why don't we. I know why; it would cut in to the big oil co bottom line, so they make sure they scare the h%$l out of us so we keep using there oil. Just think we could cut down on our dependence on foreign countries and save the environment from gallons and gallons of used oil, and save money in the process. That

[mackin]

And The Wheels On The Bus Go Round And Round .........Round And Round .... Round And Round........
And The Wheels On The Bus Go Round And Round.....
All ,Day ,long ..............


That's a lotta of miles . What kind of oil?


[img]tongue.gif[/img]

MAC

[ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[AlaskaDmax]

You are probably right.

BUT____After so many years of being brainwashed it is hard for us common folk to get over the mental image of our vehicles seizing up from not changing the oil every 3000 miles...just a big mental hurdle.

[Zap]

Amsoil 5W30 heavy duty diesel.

[LanduytG]

Zap
Thanks for the post and comments. I have been trying hard to get people to do this. Some have and some never will. The 5W-30 is good stuff and about 75% of my Dmax customers are on it. Does he do any heavy towing?
Greg

[mackin]

GM doesn't recommend that viscosity do they? Will in the warm months anyway ......... I'm running AMSOIL so I'm not looking to be sold on it ....... Thinking about switching to that viscosity this winter although ...... How are the PSI readings ?.......

MAC

[Zap]

Greg, he is a contractor and does tow with it allot, usually short trips 20-50 miles. I'm not sure what the tow weight would be either, I'm guessing in the 10,000lb range.

Mackin, I checked with Amsoil and they recommend there 5W30 said it was there best diesel oil. I also researched it with others, they explained that 5W30 will get rid of heat quicker than a 15W40, diesels run cooler, and the Amsoil will not loose its viscosity anywhere near as fast as most conventional 15W40 weight oils do. The 5W30 will also give easier starts in cold weather supposedly better mileage and most importantly will flow through the engine much quicker on start up there-by protecting the engine quicker. From what I've learned most wear comes from start up and not from oil with a light viscosity and the 30 weight is not that far from a 40 weight.

[TURBOJOE]

I sent my oil out for analyzation. Results are as follows
Iron-24
Chromium-1
Lead-13
Copper-44 ====
Tin-9
Aluminum-3
Nickel-1
Silver-2
Silicon-29 _ _ _
Boron-7
Sodium-7
Potassium-3
Magnesium-67
Calcium3117
Phosphorous-1498
Zinc-1443
Molybdenum-1
Fuel-A
Water-less than .1%
Glycol-no
visc. 100c-14.1

LEGEND:
==== symbol means "caution"
- - - symbol means "slightly above normal"


It also says "copper high indicating possible bearing or thrust wear. Copper may also be from cooler dirt level being slightly above normal."

"Change oil and filter if not already done."

The oil is Amsoil 15-40 Diesel oil. Started using Amsoil at the first 500 mile change. Baldwin filter. This oil had 4000 miles on it.

What are your thoughts on the copper and silicon levels?? Anything to worry about? Thanks in advance.

[Kennedy]

How many total miles? I am assuming 4500? The silicon starts high then drops. Mine went from 68 to 8 over the course of 4 fills and has stabilized. I am curious as to whether we can drop this in 4 fills in 1000 miles (frequent dumps) or if it is more of a time release thing where it works loose. Had it not been for the high silicon, I would have changed to the Amsoil sooner myself. From 25 miles if it were practical...

Every Dmax (and 6.5 for that matter) oil sample that I have seen starts high on copper then gradually drops. I attribute this to wrist pin bushings as the likely source. Just breaking in IMHO.

[AzKevin]

Your numbers look correct. As the diesel gurus here suggest the first several oil changes should be around 500mi and then maybe 1000mi. So one might want to wait on the pricey synthetics till the engine dirt is flushed out.

[Kennedy]

I've been running the 5w30 for some time now. It was hard to bring myself to do it, but analysis says all is well!

Oil (petro) is quite inexpensive insurance. I will likely NOT run the 5w30 past 10k, but at 6k, it is looking excellent at &lt;.1% soot!

Consumption is nil at MAYBE 1 pint per 4,000 miles of hauling ass!

[SoMnDMAX]

Kennedy sez- quote- "Consumption is nil at MAYBE 1 pint per 4,000 miles of hauling ass!"

That's excellent oil mileage considering how John drives.... [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img]




I've started running my Delo 15w-40 Dino to 4K miles now... No gain in soot levels (still under .1%), so the next change is going to 5K, and if the tests show good, I'm going for 6K. Of course, then it'll be close to winter, then it's 5w-30 Amsoil time.... I'll run 5w-30 in the winter, and 15w-40 in the summer. I can't stand running the thin oil in summer. Call me old fashioned or narrow minded, but it just bugs me.

[SoMnDMAX]

These numbers pretty much mirror my numbers. I don't have the sheet handy, otherwise I'd post them.

You'll see a decline in copper content as the engine breaks in. You'll also see a drop in the silicon levels as the engine "cleans" itself, unless you install a K&N, then the silicon levels will stay somewhat high (15-16 PPM). With an Amsoil filter, my silicon levels are around 4 or 5 PPM in 4,000 miles. With the K&N, my silicon levels were hanging around 15-16 in 3,000 miles.

[TURBOJOE]

The truck has 9500 total miles now. I changed as follows in miles.
8-500-factory oil
501-5000-Amsoil
5001-9000-Amsoil-this was the oil sent for analysis.
I am curious to see what interval I can change the oil in. Based on what I've read from the board and what was just replied it seems initially until the truck is fully broken in that shorter milage oil changes would be better. Once the copper and silicon levels drop I want to try and go 6000 or so and see what happens. Does this sound about right? Changing Amsoil every 4000 gets a bit pricey. I could maybe save 1 change a year by letting the oil go a couple more thousand. I plan to drop the oil at 13000 and see what happens. Thanks

[ 05-22-2002: Message edited by: TURBOJOE ]</p>

[01_Duramax_Dually]

I agree with Kennedy,
All appears Normal, The Cu is probably wrist pin and thrust. As for the Silicon, I have usually attributed that to valve springs and it subsides. I have not analyzed my Dmax oil and most likely will not but this is what I get from the race motors when Kendall analyzes my motor oil.

I would recommend an oil and filter change then Relax and drive that thing. Remember this, analyzing things is fun but can add extra grief to a daily driven vehicle. I have personally found that I would change synthetic oil around 10K -12K miles regardless but people will argue this point saying with proper analyzing techniques you can get 20K or more. However unless you have tons of time and are trying to get every last mile out of 10 qts of oil I think the ROE (Return on Effort) for the general consumer is marginal at best. Plus all the stress of seeing a slightly high reading of something that could or could not be a problem.

My.02 worth...

on Edit, Hey Turbojoe, saw you have a 10.5 car in your signature. I run in an Heads Up 12.5 wide max ET Street tire class. What's your car run? What's your weapon of choice in regards to power adders? Always like to chat racing...

[ 05-22-2002: Message edited by: 01_Duramax_Dually ]</p>

[george morrison]

By 10,000 miles and this many changes I would assume the dirt would have been flushed and lower. From the Duramaxes I have seen at 10,000 miles, this has been the case. My own Duramax, for example, at 4500 miles is showing a 12 silicon, with corresponding single digit copper.
Given the relatively high reported dirt, a close examination of the induction system would be in order and that the air filter is clean, well seated. And changed, if need be. If the air filter is dirty, the engine WILL find a way to get air, unfiltered, of course. (hopefully this truck is not K&N'd.)
George Morrison, STLE CLS

[TURBOJOE]

I'll post and compare at next change. Thanks for everyone's input.

01-D-MAX-Dually, the 69 is just about done. I had a ladder bar and coilovers put along with an anti roll control for the body roll.

The 525' is just getting freshened up and dynoed. It should make 850 or so. I haven't run the car yet, I just bought it over the winter. I am planning on running Pro Stock in the Edelbrock Pro deal. Here's a link to the class I want to run in.http://www.fasteststreetcar.com/prostock.html.
I don't think I'll be done for the first event. I like the NA classes and if it doesn't work out, SPRAY IT. As far as power adders goes, that's a tuff one.

I have used N2O on previous cars with great results and I have already put a fogger on my manifold for this car when I get it sorted out. I still say for a carbed car, it's the best bang for the buck.

Superchargers are definately making some power but I really haven't given them a good looking at. Procharger is doing some impressive stuff though.

Turbos, I think are the way to go. I had a 87 Buick Regal Turbo T. Now that was a fun car. That car ran on pump gas 15 lbs. boost and Et streets 11.9 at 12.0 at 113-114. Man was that car fun, nobody new what hit'em. Look at most of the Ford stuff like pro 5.0 and these guys are haulin ass.

Overall for me now I like nitrous. Both for the simplicity and cheaper cost. However, if I had the cash a grasp on DFI I would build a turbo car. You can screw up a turbo small block 350 and still make 800-900 HP and drive it on the street!!

[ChevysRus]

hey, i also received my first oil analysis from AVLube and results were normal as follows:

Iron = 7
Chromium = 0
Lead = 1
Copper = 12
Tin

[ChevysRus]

Sorry, it went before I finished (no comments about that please)

Hey, I also received my first oil analysis from AVLube and results were normal as follows:
Iron = 7
Chromium = 0
Lead = 1
Copper = 12
Tin = 3
Alum = 3
Nickel = 0
Silver = 0
Silicon = 6
Boron = 136
Sodium = 8
Potassium = 1
Magnesium = 865
Calcium = 472
Phos = 1462
Zinc = 1414
Moly = 2
Fuel = A
Water = &lt;0.1%
Glycol = N
Visc 100c = 13.7

The mag thru Zinc numbers are additives in the oil, not meltdown of components LOL

This was last oil used by dealer, suppose to be Citgo 15w-40. I am now using Mobil Delvac 1300S 15W-40. I will change it at 5K and send it in again for analysis to see if any differences.

Truck had 15K at time of this change and oil has been changed every 3K faithfully up to the 15K mark. Now on the 1300S and 5K intervals.

Wish me luck

[george morrison]

Your analysis from http://www.avlube.com/ looks excellent. All parameters, with my favorite subject of silicon (dirt) being an excellent single digit which translates into minimized component wear. With the increased anti-wear and detergency package of the Mobil 1300S, it will be interesting to follow its affect on your wear numbers.
George Morrison, STLE CLS