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Thread: Oil Analysis

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
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    CHICAGO
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    40

    Post

    ChevyRus, I noticed you have a few more miles and oil changes under your belt. I'm hoping my results will look similar in the future.

    What kind of air filter do you run? I'm using the K&N, possibly another contributor of dirt!
    \'02 2500HD CC,SB GREEN LT, LINE-X, K&N<br />Banks exhaust<br />\'97 FLSTF-sold<br />69 Chevelle 525\" 10.5 tire car

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Brentwood, California USA
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    497

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    TurboJoe, thanks I am running the stock GM filter so far waiting for something better to be on the market. I did get a new airbox (2002 model) and got rid of the stock 2001 model at about 10K. Of course it came with a new stock filter ha ha ha So maybe soon somethoing will be out there that everyone will love as much as they seem to love the Juice box.

    Thanks George for taking a peek at the numbers.

    Everyone have a great long weekend
    \'01 Chevy EC/2WD/SB, T/F 45 gal, Delvac 1, TranSynd, deep pan, MAG drain plug. Escalade handles & painted bumper capto. After market grill, billet bowtie, Stockland cover, no side trim, no juice, no gauges, nuttin but stock! Nicktane Big CAT Pre-OEM. Gone, but not forgotten.

    '07 Crew Cab LBZ stock all the way except added 45 gallon Transfer Flow tank and billet grille. Great truck also now gone, but not forgotten.

    '12 Crew Cab stock for a few more days LOL

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Oregon & Texas
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    340

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    I have some questions about the oil analysis. I know some guys who have used diesels hard for years, who've never had an oil analysis done, and had excellent service out of their truck(s).

    Is there any documented correlation between increased silicone levels (and the other "bad" stuff) in oil samples and increased wear on the engine? If so, how does it correlate? What is the overall effect on performance?

    For such a test to be valid, there would need to be tear-downs accomplished at various intervals. Things like the wear of rings, cylinder walls, and bearings would have to be compared between a low silicone motor and a high silicone motor, operated under the same conditions. Also, oil-pressure, power output and mileage would need to be recorded and compared between the two motors.

    Is there anything like this out there? Or is this more along the lines of "use my special insecticide and you won't have anymore problems with elephants in your back yard?"

    Blaine
    2002 Crew Cab Short Bed 2500 HD 4x4, Duramax, Allison, Amsoil, Magnaflow 4\" x 20\" muffler, Juice,; Fold-a-Cover, nerf bars, Husky mats, Weather Tech windo vent shades; bed mat, tailgate protector, bulkhead protector, wheel-well protectors; mud flaps, Leveling kit, Frontier front end replacement

  4. #24
    Kennedy Guest

    Post

    Well, we'll see if George chimes in here:

    He just got done doing my ferrography after 17k of service on an Amsoil air filter, and 10k on the 5w30 oil. We are still waiting on the particle count, but the ferrography shows EXCELLENT results in terms of silicon.

    As for the effects of silicon, just imagine dumping in a handful of sand.

    Silicon, accompanied by elevated wear metals shows what is happening. I've also recently learned that spectro analysis is only a VERY general indicator. The big stuff does NOT show up...

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Tampa, FL
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    382

    Post

    John, where is the best place to get your sample tested and who supplies the kits?


    Thanks
    Oneton
    2002 3500HD Pewter/lt grey interior Crew Cab 4x4 LT Durmax/Allison

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    columbus, ohio
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    As John has indicated, there is a direct correlation to dirt intake and engine/component wear rates. One teaspoon of dirt can completely destroy a large V-16 CAT engine so imagine the affect even a small dirt ingestion can have on our small engines.. Dirt is rather like a silent killer in that in many cases the induction leak enabling the dirt intake may not be readily visibible (in fact at times *very* difficult to find!) and oil analysis is the only way to find out what is happening. Additionally, oil analysis can give early warning to leaking head gaskets, cracked heads, anti-freeze contamination, before it causes catastrophic damage. Same with a bad fuel injector; oil analysis will catch that before causing damage, yet sometimes difficult to discern driving-wise with our computer engines. The list goes on and on.. Basically the most inexpensive insurance one can buy for one's engine plus when it comes to re-sale, having an oil analysis history eliminates a lot of question for a prospective future buyer. One of the banner's on this page is for avlube.com which has the regular spectrographic oil analysis kits for around $15 or the complete ferrography, particle count, etc. for $90. There are other people on this board who have them available also.
    I review a little over 100 oil analysis results a day for companies I work with whose liveleyhood depends on engine and component availability and longevity. Without oil analysis, it would be like playing routlette, next to impossible to catch problems before they become failures.
    George Morrison, STLE CLS
    George Morrison, STLE CLS<br />www.avlube.com e-mail avlube@netwalk.com<br />2002 Chev Duramax 2500HD, Delvac 1, Mobil 1 syn ATF, 75W-90<br />1998 Chev 3500HD 6.5TD, Delvac 1, Harvard 750S by-pass oil filter

  7. #27
    Kennedy Guest

    Post

    oneton,

    I have a history with www.usoil.com and their analytical labs. Kathy is great to deal with, fast and friendly, and kits are free. Just pay for the anaylysis.

    Amsoil has their Oil Analyzers lab as well. They sell the kits cash up front with or w/o postage.

    That said, after talking with George in detail about these things, I am heading his way as he can explain things like no other. This means a lot to me, and whenever I can learn...

    Take particle counts vs. ferrography as an example. I failed an engine where the cam bearings went out. The spectro-analysis showed nothing unusual, BUT I could actually SEE the chunks. This is because they concentrate on the teeny tiny stuff where the ferrography looks for all the stuff.

    A std analysis runs around $15 where a ferrography is about $90, but given the detail, it's worth every penny IMHO.

    FWIW, my soot showed extremely low on the last spectro-analysis, BUT the ferrography showed large globules in the +5 micron size range. The good thing is, tey did not hurt anything as the wear metals stayed low...

    On edit: I did not read George's post (cost etc) prior to making mine...

    [ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: kennedy ]</p>

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    139

    Post

    Hi John,

    I'm sure this has been discussed before, but as a general rule of thumb, how often do you have the oil analysis performed and with the use of Amsoil 5w30 oil what has been your regular oil change intervals? I noticed that in your earlier post it was 10k before you had the analysis performed.
    DP Member 9428<br />2002 Chevy 2500HD LT, D/A, Ext. Cab, SB, Dark Carmine Red/Med. Grey.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Oregon & Texas
    Posts
    340

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    George,

    I understand dirt will ruin an engine. The assumption seems to be the amount of silicone in an oil analysis indicates how much dirt is in the engine.

    My question is what levels of silicone in an oil analysis have been shown to cause engine damage? What examples are out there showing this correlation, and what conditions were these engines operated under? What was the data used to come to these conclusions?

    Blaine
    2002 Crew Cab Short Bed 2500 HD 4x4, Duramax, Allison, Amsoil, Magnaflow 4\" x 20\" muffler, Juice,; Fold-a-Cover, nerf bars, Husky mats, Weather Tech windo vent shades; bed mat, tailgate protector, bulkhead protector, wheel-well protectors; mud flaps, Leveling kit, Frontier front end replacement

  10. #30
    Kennedy Guest

    Post

    CSDMAX,

    I have sampled and changed at 1,3,5,7, and 17k. The last 10k run was with 5w30 Amsoil. The Amsoil sample is the first one that I have had a ferrography done with. We are still waiting for a virgin oil sample to arrive at AV Lube for a baseline on the particle count.

    I now have Delo 400 in, and will change at 3-5k, then run Delvac 1.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    columbus, ohio
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    327

    Post

    A large amount of dirt (silicon) can destroy an engine. An elevated dirt level will simply accelerate the rate of wear. Minimal dirt will enable the least amount of wear to occur in an engine. There is no "graph" or direct correlation as some engines are *very* sensitive to even small amounts of intake dirt (2 cycle Detroit Diesel engines were very easily damaged) and then there are some areas of the country where the intake dirt is much more abrasive than others. In other words, this is not science in its relationship. Conversely, as John has pointed out, there are inherent limitations with spectrographic oil analysis in that it looks at the 0 to 5 micron size range. If we have contaminants larger in size it may not be reflected as elevated silicon level, yet the accelerated wear will be reflected in the report. I look at over 100 oil samples results a day and still need to have brain storming sessions with other engineers at times trying to decipher exactly what is going on in an engine or component.
    Suffice it to say, maintaining the lowest level of dirt (silicon) possible will ensure the longest life of the engine. I always strive for single digit dirt levels, if possible..
    George Morrison, STLE CLS
    George Morrison, STLE CLS<br />www.avlube.com e-mail avlube@netwalk.com<br />2002 Chev Duramax 2500HD, Delvac 1, Mobil 1 syn ATF, 75W-90<br />1998 Chev 3500HD 6.5TD, Delvac 1, Harvard 750S by-pass oil filter

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Oregon & Texas
    Posts
    340

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    George,

    Thanks for the info. Sound's kind of like not eating junk food. It's not an exact science how much healthier it makes you, but you never hurt anything by reducing the junk.

    Next question, are diesels more sensitive to dirt than gas motors?

    Blaine
    2002 Crew Cab Short Bed 2500 HD 4x4, Duramax, Allison, Amsoil, Magnaflow 4\" x 20\" muffler, Juice,; Fold-a-Cover, nerf bars, Husky mats, Weather Tech windo vent shades; bed mat, tailgate protector, bulkhead protector, wheel-well protectors; mud flaps, Leveling kit, Frontier front end replacement

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Hubert, NC, USA
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    120

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    OK time for all you oil guru's to help me out here. Did my first oil analysis on this truck and just received the results. Analysis says no corrective action required, but I want to hear what you have to say about these numbers... Thanx in advance.

    iron-12ppm
    chromium-0
    lead-5ppm
    copper-10ppm
    tin-3ppm
    aluminum- 9ppm
    nickel-0
    silver-0
    manganese-1ppm
    silicon-9ppm
    boron-38ppm
    sodium-1ppm
    magnesium-59ppm
    calcium-4339ppm
    barium-0
    phosphorus-1274ppm
    zinc-1367ppm
    molybdenum-9ppm
    titanium-0
    vanadium-0
    cadmium-0

    And just for the record, I already changed the oil and filter. This was AMSOIL 15w40 synthetic, tested with 8k miles on oil and 25k on truck.
    Hoss...<p>2001 Chevy 3500 LS Crew-Cab, 4X4, DMax/Allison, Lt Pewter Metallic/Graphite Int., Turnoverball Gooseneck Hitch, Line-X Bedliner, Amsoil air filter, Amsoil fluids bumper to bumper<p>* Sure, the Marines are a Department of the Navy... the \"MEN\'S\" Department *<p>Member since Jan 2001

  14. #34
    LanduytG Guest

    Post

    Looks almost new to me. You changed out good oil. I would of changed the filter and gone on for another 7500 miles.
    Greg

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    columbus, ohio
    Posts
    327

    Post

    Confirming what Greg has already said, analysis results are excellent. Good baseline for if you want to extend drain intervals, or just keep it at this level for a very, very long engine and component life...
    George Morrison, STLE CLS
    George Morrison, STLE CLS<br />www.avlube.com e-mail avlube@netwalk.com<br />2002 Chev Duramax 2500HD, Delvac 1, Mobil 1 syn ATF, 75W-90<br />1998 Chev 3500HD 6.5TD, Delvac 1, Harvard 750S by-pass oil filter

  16. #36
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Imperial Beach Calif.
    Posts
    33

    Post

    Greg & George

    For all us slow people [img]tongue.gif[/img] could you post a range of acceptable Limits (ranges) for Hosses results

    Thanks [img]smile.gif[/img]
    U.S. Navy<br />Life, Liberty and the pursuit of all who threaten it!<br />Keith

  17. #37
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Holmen, WI, USA
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    Post

    Oil analysis doesn't really work that way. There are, what some would call, acceptable ranges. But being in those acceptable ranges may not necessarily mean that the oil is performing well, or that there isn't some sort of other problem.

    Check this out. It's my oil sample history.

    http://mousepadx.home.sprynet.com/oilanalysis.xls

    I ran my oil about 7500 miles too long. But the sample results came back "within tolerances". Lesson learned. When hot rodding a diesel, you need to watch oil performance closely. As opposed to just meeting the specification limits.

    Of course, Mr. Morrison has forgotten more about oil than most of us will ever know. So I'm sure he'll point out any flaws in this reply.
    \'99 2500 ISB QC SLT (No Leather!),4x4,5sp w/McLeod,4:10,BP8x11\'s,B-1,FMS,EZ,PE4200,LPG,H2O/CH4O,4\"exh.,Pac-Brake,OBA,more switches than you,Line-X,V-1,lts,siren,lic. plt. frm says \"<b><i>Diesel Fumes Make Me Horny!</i></b>\",and much more goofy stuff.

  18. #38
    Maverick Guest

    Post

    OIL IS AMSOIL 3000 SERIES 5W-30. SAMPLE TESTED BY OIL ANALYZERS, SUPERIOR, WI

    15,000 MILES ON THIS OIL.

    PHYSICAL PROPERTIES:

    GYLCOL-------NEG. Does this mean there is no antifreeze in the oil?
    % WATER------0.05
    % FUEL-------1.0
    % SOLIDS-----N/A

    VISCOSITY:

    40 DEGREES---N/A
    100 DEGREES--18.7

    OIL DEGRADATION:

    SOOT--------2.3
    % OXD------17.8
    % NOX------11.4
    TBN--------12.0
    TAN-------- N/A

    SPECTROGRAPHIC ANALYSIS:

    IRON---------80
    CHROMIUM------4
    LEAD---------24
    COPPER------562*
    TIN-----------6
    ALUMINUM-----14
    NICKEL--------3
    SILVER--------1
    MANGANESE-----3
    SILICON-------9
    BORON--------37
    SODIUM--------6
    MAGNESIUM----14
    CALCIUM----4310
    BARIUM--------0
    PHOSPHORUS-1271
    ZINC-------1351
    MOLYBDENUM----0
    TITANIUM------0
    VANADIUM------0
    CADMIUM-------0

    RESULTS OF TEST INDICATE VISCOSITY IS OUT OF INDICATED GRADE
    CHANGE OIL AND FILTERS, IF NOT DONE WHEN SAMPLED
    RESAMPLE AT NEXT REGULAR INTERVAL

    *COPPER PROBABLY LEACHKATE FROM OIL COOLER/LINES


    I did change everything when I sampled. I guess this good Amsoil oil is not holding up. Whats up with that.

    Need feedback please.......tanks alot.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Arlington, Texas USA
    Posts
    369

    Post

    i am telling you get shell rotilla T. that stuff is great.
    2002 GMC 2500HD D/A 4X4 fire red SLT<p>tuff bedliner, gm nerf bars, bed extender, adrian steel tool box.<p>i am maxamized and juiced <br />straight piped banks 4in exhaust. K&N high flow air filter<br />autometer boost and EGT guages.<p>tmg115@hotmail.com<p>pics of my girl <a href=\"http://www.picturetrail.com/tmg115\" target=\"_blank\">www.picturetrail.com/tmg115</a>

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Kent, Connecticut
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    639

    Question

    Maverick,

    email with the address of the company you are using. I would like to get an oil analysis done on my 02.

    Thanks in advance.

    GMC

    email me at : gmc2002duramax@earthlink.net
    <b>\'02 2500HD - 435 RWHP/774 LB-FT on #2 ONLY..<br />HOT Juice,VA Box,Predator,AFE Stage II,Banks 4\"<br />RS9000\'s,Deep Pan,H2\'s & Pro-Comp 33\"<br /><a href=\"http://community.webshots.com/user/gmc2002dmax\" target=\"_blank\">Pics</a><br /><a href=\"mailto:gmc2002duramax@earthlink.net\">gmc20 02duramax@earthlink.net</a></b>

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