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Thread: Oil Analysis

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Central coast California
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    25

    Post

    Maverick
    I sent your oil analysis sheet off to Dave at Performance Oil Technology, will have a response manana...bill
    \"Skinny pedal to the metal\"<br />2002 chev 2500HD CC D/A S/B BLOOD RED LOADED MACK DADDY<br />Amsoil front to rear <br />Brand new untouched...but soon!!<p>http://syntheticoiltech.com/oil/1/

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Powhatan, VA
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    214

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    Maverick,

    I had my 5w30 amsoil tested at about 12000 miles.

    viscosity at 100 C was 11.8 previous testing of the same oil was 11.6.

    soot has been less than 1% on all test.
    Oxidation was 7.8
    %nox was 7.1
    TBN was 12.3

    I think I added 2 quarts makeup oil over the 12000 miles to replace what I drained out and from the filter changes.

    No one added some other oil that you don't know about did they? You didn't add a quart of gear lube by mistake???

    I haven't had any problems with the amsoil.

    Your viscosity sounds way high. testing on 15w 40 showed a viscosity of 13.8, so if you are showing 18.7 I don't know what that would equate to. Did the oil look thick? Maybe this is related to your head gasket problem.

    I remember some posts some time ago about the 5w30 turning to sludge if antifreeze got in it. Your test was negative, but it seems as if I have read some post about not being able to detect the antifreeze. Maybe someone else can add to this.

    Definitly sounds as if you have a problem. I don't think the amsoil would get that thick unless something was causing it. Another oil might be worse.

    Your soot seems a little high compared to all my test. Sorry this is all I can offer. Good luck!

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    281

    Post

    They are telling you that your viscosity is wrong because 5w-30 is too light of an oil to start with. The lower number (5w) is not that important, but you need a 40 weight oil to protect your engine in high heat.

    Use a 15w-40 conventional oil or a 5w-40 synthetic. Be careful that the synthetic you choose is a real synthetic and not one of the newer cheaters (Rotella comes to mind).

  4. #44
    Kennedy Guest

    Post

    My next fill (if I ever find the durn oil) will be 5w40 Delvac 1. I will then run it for a long term analysis.

    I think that the technical expertise provided by George at AV lube is well worth the expense of the sampling. If you want TRUE results, get a ferrography done. While the cost is about $90, it shows what is REALLY in the oil, and not just the "fines"

    I believe my current recommendation for Amsoil users would be to use the 15w40 Diesel/marine, but until I run a sample with a 40w oil to compare, I cannot say there is a difference, only go by what I am told.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    131

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    Kennedy,

    From Mobil's Delvac 1 FAQ:

    22. WHERE CAN I BUY DELVAC 1?

    Delvac 1 is available through our nationwide network of Mobil distributors in gallon jugs and 55-gallon drums.

    We are gaining more retail distribution at truckstops and truck dealers every day -- and as you ask for the product, the truckstops will carry it.

    Contact the Mobil Customer Response Center at 1-800-662-4525 for information on your nearest distributor.
    \'02 GMC Sierra SLE 2500HD D/A <br />Black ExCab Longbed 4x4 with G80<br />Nuetral interior with power buckets<p>Westin Chrome Step Bars<br />Invincashield<br />Amsoil Two Stage Air Filter<br />Fumoto Drain Valve

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Brentwood, California USA
    Posts
    497

    Post

    I went on line at www.mobil.com, selected Mobil Delvac 1 and asked for a list of dealers in my zip code. The web site came back with 4 suppliers.
    One was about 5 miles away and I zipped up there on my lunch hour. Minimum sale is 1 case of 4 gallons about $88 bucks. I probably didn't get the best price as didn't use a company name or have an account. Next time!!

    Anyway, changed from the Delvac 1300S with 5K on it and dropped in 11 qts. (yes mine seems to take 11 qts with the filter change) of the Synthetic Mobil Delvac 1 to get the oil level to the very top if the in range notch. 10 qts left the oil level down 2 notches still in range, but not full in my mind, so added another qt. Same thing happened last time. Full oil means cooler engine.

    Drove to Reno for Hot August Nights about 250 miles and while outside of the truck getting a coke, I still hear the damn "TICK". I was hoping the Delvac 1 would solve that problem. 20K on the truck now, but it's a Timex truck, "takes a lickin and keeps on ticking" LOL

    Anyway, will run this oil 7500 miles and change it and send it in to AVLube for analysis and see what's different about it other than $22 per gallon.

    I could not stand to let my truck go 12K or 15K without an oil change, you guys who do that to save a few bucks are risking bigger bucks in repair cost, but it all depends on if you are keeping the truck or trading it in every few years doesn't it.

    7500 is the max I am going to go between oil changes with the synthetic, 5K on Dino. I mean what the hell is the point,. Just so you can say you went 15K and the analysis is bad or good?????

    We just got one of our diesel generators back from a rental customer with 2500 hours on it. They never changed the damn oil and filters. The valve train and rocker arms clogged up and no oil was able to circulate, burned up the whole valve train and head overheated. $3600 repair job they have to pay due to negligence and failure to perform maintenance. Sad part is it was under warranty, but rejected due no maintenance performed.

    Anyway, that's apples and oranges and no comparison to our trucks except that sometimes trying to save a few dollars can end up costing you a lot more.

    Happy Motoring
    \'01 Chevy EC/2WD/SB, T/F 45 gal, Delvac 1, TranSynd, deep pan, MAG drain plug. Escalade handles & painted bumper capto. After market grill, billet bowtie, Stockland cover, no side trim, no juice, no gauges, nuttin but stock! Nicktane Big CAT Pre-OEM. Gone, but not forgotten.

    '07 Crew Cab LBZ stock all the way except added 45 gallon Transfer Flow tank and billet grille. Great truck also now gone, but not forgotten.

    '12 Crew Cab stock for a few more days LOL

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Powhatan, VA
    Posts
    214

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    Maverick,

    If I lived in Alaska, I would certainly use the 5w30. A 30 weight oil probably covers the temperature range you operate in most of the time. I don't think you have a problem with the amsoil. Having read your other post and problems, I would think the two things are related-- I guess this is in the same truck? My understanding is that your oil has thickend up for some reason. Its not to thin. The lab is not going too tell you that you are using too thin of an oil. They will only tell you how the oil compares to what you told them it was. A multiviscosity oil actually changes with temperature. So they test it at 100 degrees c which would be testing the 30 weight rating and not the 5 weight. There may be something in the oil not covered by the test. Maybe you should call the lab and see what they say.

    Ken

  8. #48
    LanduytG Guest

    Post

    Maverick

    Something is really wrong here. The % of OXD or soot level is not that high for the viscocity to be a 50 weight.

    But if you look at the fuel its 1% now that IMHO is high and I would be looking for and injector leak or something.

    The copper level has me wondering as well. I really feel you have something series going on here. Do you still have the old oil you drained out? If so hang on to it.

    As for the 30 weight not being heavy enough thats not true. I have a customer with a Duramax that pulls RV's out of northern Indiana and has over 50K miles on his 5W-30 and looks great. His soot level never got to 2% till 45K miles and % of fuel is less than 1%, and % of OXD was only 14.4. All other wear metals are well with in limits.

    Didn't you have a problem with anti freeze lose a while back?

    Greg

  9. #49
    Kennedy Guest

    Post

    I'd have liked to see a ferrography on that oil. Sounds awfully heavy.

    The copper sounds like wrist pins. Let's hope not...

    I had a fair amount of oxidation/black oxides in mine. Will be interesting to see how the 40w compares...

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    columbus, ohio
    Posts
    327

    Post

    From a lube engineer's perspective, one very important aspect of engine oil function in a diesel is to provide "cushioning" at bearing interface. As the name diesel implies, during the power stroke, diesel fuel literally explodes, producing a violent reaction. As opposed to gasoline engines where fuel "burns" yielding a much softer power stroke. The explosive energy from diesel fuel is in turn relayed through the piston, connecting rod bearings and crankshaft main bearings. At this moment the oil film is the cushioning agent, the component that makes all this work smoothly. If oil film fails, we have bearing face rubbing bearing face and accelrated wear. There just isn't a substitute for viscosity and film strength in a diesel for this job.
    20 years ago the majority of Cummins and CAT diesel engines used straight weight 30W. When 15W-40 diesel oils were developed, engine and component life dramatically increased from 30% to 50%. Film thickness... Combined with cold weather oil flow combined to decrease the shock loading for bearings and provided longer life.
    We are keeping metal away from metal with an oil film. The thickest, optimum viscosity oil film with the strongest film strength will provide the maximum distance between meta/metal and best cushioning... It is that simple.
    George Morrison, STLE CLS
    George Morrison, STLE CLS<br />www.avlube.com e-mail avlube@netwalk.com<br />2002 Chev Duramax 2500HD, Delvac 1, Mobil 1 syn ATF, 75W-90<br />1998 Chev 3500HD 6.5TD, Delvac 1, Harvard 750S by-pass oil filter

  11. #51
    Maverick Guest

    Post

    Some of you touched this a little.
    Can anyone tell me what looks out of line, not normal for this engine and oil.? I have no idea what 18.7 means as far as vis. What should 5w-30 be at at 100 degrees? Is the 18.7 being compared to the 30 in 5w-30? I thought the higher the number the thicker the oil. 50 weight is thicker than 30 weight. 18.7 would be really thin right? I don't know how to read these results. Just highlight what does't look right. Thanks.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Southern Minnesota
    Posts
    1,202

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    Jeff, for reference- My test results see a copper level of about 7-9, an iron level of 5-6, a lead level of 4-5, and viscosity of 13.7-14.7. Fuel levels are always under 1%, water is always less than .1%, and soot is always less than .1%.

    This is with 15w-40 Dino oil, at 4,000 mile intervals.

    I think you've got something wrong... Those copper and iron levels scare me!!

    Would Dexcool have this effect on the oil?? What about the dye used to do the leak check??

    [ 08-16-2002: Message edited by: SoMnDMAX ]</p>
    2003 Chevy 2500HD LT EC/SB D/A <br />Dark Gray, loaded..<br />Kennedy 4\" Exhaust, Headlight Harness, Access, Air Lift, Luverne, <br />Hot Juice, Mega Filter, more....<a href=\"http://community.webshots.com/user/somndmax\" target=\"_blank\">Pics</a><br /><a href=\"mailto:somndmax@yahoo.com\">somndmax@yahoo. com</a>

  13. #53
    Maverick Guest

    Post

    Thanks Matt.

    Ok now what!? What do you oil guys suggest I do now beside a $90 test? Run it till something goes?

    [ 08-16-2002: Message edited by: Maverick ]</p>

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    281

    Post

    The first think I would do is switch to the right oil. Look at your owners manual and you will see the correct oil you should be using. If you have an '01 there are errors in the manual about oil usage that are corrected by a service bulletin... contact your dealer for a copy. Surely you don't beleive that salespeople on a message board know more than the manufacturer about the correct oil for the Duramax do you?

    The second thing I would do is switch testing labs. Your test failed to give you the necessary information to make an intelligent decision. I use Blackstone and they explain everything for you. If your copper and iron were high they would give you the possible reasons.

    If you posted all the info. from your test it's a pretty poor testing facility that doesn't give complete explainations. You are buying their service as a complete package... not just numbers.

    [ 08-17-2002: Message edited by: csimo ]</p>

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Powhatan, VA
    Posts
    214

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    Maverick,

    Go to this site if you want to get an idea of what the 18.7 means. http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/NewO...y_motoroil.htm

    I think some of you guys think that the viscosity is supposed to be the same number as the oil weight. This isn't the case. I think Greg is correct that the 18.7 would be the reading for a 50 weight oil. The chart at the above site would give you that information.

    George, I'm no expert, but it sounds like you are tying thickness and film strength together. Maybe I am misreading your post. I don't believe that oil thickness and film strength are necessarily tied together. I believe water has a high film strength yet is very thin. I think you can have a thinner weight oil with a higher film strength than some other higher weight oils. Energy saving recommendations say to use 30 weight. There has to be a balance of all these factors together. Many of the modern engines with very small clearances will perform better and be better protected with a 30 weight than a 40 weight. The brand and design of the oil also plays a big part. Whats a guy to do??!~!! Just toooooo many choices!!

    Maverick, I would keep your oil changed frequently until you discover what is causing it to degrade. You never did tell us the circumstances of your oil test. Was this the same oil you were running when you had the head gasket problem, or after that? or a different truck? How about previous oil test. One thing about the oil testing, is that it can show you a change over time. Did you do any previous test?

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Campbell,Ca
    Posts
    105

    Post

    Here are some ranges from the back of my analysis
    SAE ENG OIL MIN MAX
    30 / 9.3 - 12.5
    40 / 12.5 -16.3
    50 / 16.3 -21.9
    I know this dos't explain what they mean, but it shows where it should be

    [ 08-17-2002: Message edited by: bbattrell ]</p>

  17. #57
    Maverick Guest

    Post

    csimo,
    Give me a complete company name, address, phone #, and web address for this Blackstone. Thanks.

    KenZ,
    This was the same oil with the head problem. Never tested before this one.

    Another question. Is it OK to dump this synthetic oil and put in say Rotella or Delvac again? I thought once you go synthetic you couldn't go back to regular oil. Could someone please clarify this. Thanks.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    281

    Post

    All the info on Blackstone can be found at:
    http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

    You can switch from conventional to synthetic and back again with no problems. The claims that you can't go one way or another are just old wives tales.

    I personally believe in synthetic oils, but I don't buy into the extended drain intervals claimed by some. I use Delvac 1 5w-40 full synthetic diesel oil and change it when the "change oil" light comes on. I send my sample to Blackstone and they usually tell me things are fine and I could have gone longer before my change, but then I would be violating the terms of the warranty.

    Good luck!

    [ 08-18-2002: Message edited by: csimo ]</p>

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Philo, California
    Posts
    223

    Red face

    Maverick, sorry to hear about your engine problems. I hope all is well now. I want to comment about the Oil anylsis though. Blackstone has a solid reputation on the other forum, and what I like is the record they (and you) keep which helps spot developing problems early. They also reccomend fixes. The only downside is that they have to send a sample kit and all, which takes time, and time is money. Maybe a phone call would speed up the process. Good Luck.
    2001 GMC Extended Cab, Pewter (what else), SLT 3500 4X4 Duramax/Allison Line-X, Billet Grille, J&J stainless running boards, Snugtop Tonneau Cover, Striping by Bridge, Jordan 2020 brake controller, Ultra forged alum wheels, 30-gallon cross bed fuel-and-tool box.

  20. #60
    LanduytG Guest

    Post

    Maverick
    The lab you are using gives as much detail as Blackstone. I have sent a sample of the same oil to each and results were the same. You can change back to dino if you want but why? As for extended drains it has been done for years. We are not in the stone age any longer as some here would like to make you think. Oil technology has advanced greatly in the last several years.

    Greg

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